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Howard

Yet another stupid New Jermany law enacted

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Only in the Socialist People's Republic of New Jermany, stupid politicians!

So now I can't let my Huskies roam in the cold even though they love it and start scratching at the door after I bring them in because they want to go back outside.

Now you are a criminal if you leave your dog outside when it is above 90 degrees. The corrupt rich politicians that live in their climate controlled mansions seem to forget that when it is 90 out many homes are over 100 degrees because not all the people that pay their salaries have air conditioning as they can't afford it with the high taxes we have been inflicted with by our lords in Trenton.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/08/christie_signs_tougher_animal_cruelty_laws_for_nj.html

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The way I read the law it isn't bad. Yes I hate nanny state laws, but I like dogs more than people. The law states you can't leave them chained up. Nothing wrong with leaving them outside to run free assuming your property is fenced in and they have some sort of shelter to go into. Law is meant to stop scumbags from leaving chained up dogs to guard places. At the same time people still need to know what breed they have and what temps it can withstand. Husky in sub zero no problem. Shih Tzu will die.

 

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I agree with capt14k. After removing more than one dead dog because the owner left it outside in very hot or very cold conditions and there was very little I could do to the owner due to the lack of animal cruelty laws in NJ. (Previously it was legal to chain up a dog 24 hours a day outside as long as they have access to fresh water and a wind brake type shelter) however I think this law needs breed exemptions. As in cold weather dogs allowed out in cold temps and warm weather dogs allowed out in hot temps. 

Nj really needs to completely redo it's animal crulety laws. Hell they just made bestiality illegal in 2015 

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Many good dog owners fail to realize that many many people do not treat their pets like family members as many of us here do. I have seen what people can do to their pets and it's just shocking that they can sleep at night knowing that their pet is starving to death or it's collar is so small it grew into it's neck or it's eyeball is hanging out of its eyesocket and covered with maggots. I could go on for days with story's..........

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19 minutes ago, fishnut said:

Many good dog owners fail to realize that many many people do not treat their pets like family members as many of us here do. I have seen what people can do to their pets and it's just shocking that they can sleep at night knowing that their pet is starving to death or it's collar is so small it grew into it's neck or it's eyeball is hanging out of its eyesocket and covered with maggots. I could go on for days with story's..........

^^^ This. I've seen alot of this as well and then some. Its tragic and inhumane and most of all avoidable sadly. And..its not getting better !  The people who do these things have gotten off with a small fine and a slap on the wrist in years past. Any law that can protect animals rights and punish animal cruelty is a step in the right direction.

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9 hours ago, mossburger said:

It comes down to discretion. You think they're gonna come chase after a Husky on a winter day? Or the guy who leaves a Yorkie in a hot car for it to die? A lot of people own pets, but have no love for animals, and that ain't right. 

And that is the exact problem.  A law that is completly subjective.  No one likes animal cruelty, but this law just opens things up for stupidity, like huskies out in the cold.  You can now be ticketed for a perfectly healthy behavior, and then waste time and dollars to prove that a dog designed for the cold is not injured by the cold.  I have to drag my golden back inside when it snows, he will just burrow in and lay there.  He likes it.

There are already laws about animal cruelty, more stupid feel good legislation does nothing except pad lawyers pockets.

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Petef- previous to this new law what law specifically made it illegal for me to keep a Chihuahua chained up outside with a 50lb chain that is 3 feet long 24 hours a day with a lean-to made from a tarp as a shelter and a water bowl in Sub zero temperatures???? Or keeping a husky or golden chained up outside in full sun without shade during the summer months??

Im guessing your not actually familiar with New Jersey's animal cruelty laws or the lack thereof

 

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8 minutes ago, fishnut said:

Petef- previous to this new law what law specifically made it illegal for me to keep a Chihuahua chained up outside with a 50lb chain that is 3 feet long 24 hours a day with a lean-to made from a tarp as a shelter and a water bowl in Sub zero temperatures???? Or keeping a husky or golden chained up outside in full sun without shade during the summer months??

Im guessing your not actually familiar with New Jersey's animal cruelty laws or the lack thereof

 

Animal cruelty laws already on the books?  

Im guessing you are not a dog owner and have no idea how dogs behave.  My golden likes cold and hot.  So now i can get hassled because my dog is where he wants to be perfectly happy sitting in the hot sun or burrowing in the snow. Because someone that doesnt know my dog thinks he is in distress.  

I see you are a big fan of subjective laws.

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2 minutes ago, PeteF said:

Animal cruelty laws already on the books?  

Im guessing you are not a dog owner and have no idea how dogs behave.  My golden likes cold and hot.  So now i can get hassled because my dog is where he wants to be perfectly happy sitting in the hot sun or burrowing in the snow. Because someone that doesnt know my dog thinks he is in distress.  

I see you are a big fan of subjective laws.

I've owned dogs for 34 years and am a licensed Animal control officer and Animal cruelty investigator so your way way off on your accessment of me. I've put more time into the care and Welfare of other people's animals than you have ever put into your own animals.

 No there were no laws on the books preventing the 2 situations I presented above. By the way that Chihuahua scenario was a real case where I had to remove the chihuahuas decomposing body from someone's backyard. There was no law for me to charge them with so they got off scot-free. 

I see you're a fan of talking about things that you have no idea about. Also if you actually read the law you would realize there is a provision where the dogs coat thickness is to be taken into consideration. 

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1 hour ago, fishnut said:

I've owned dogs for 34 years and am a licensed Animal control officer and Animal cruelty investigator so your way way off on your accessment of me. I've put more time into the care and Welfare of other people's animals than you have ever put into your own animals.

 No there were no laws on the books preventing the 2 situations I presented above. By the way that Chihuahua scenario was a real case where I had to remove the chihuahuas decomposing body from someone's backyard. There was no law for me to charge them with so they got off scot-free. 

I see you're a fan of talking about things that you have no idea about. Also if you actually read the law you would realize there is a provision where the dogs coat thickness is to be taken into consideration. 

Ah now I see where you are coming from.  You are one of the people making money off this crap.   

Please explain to me how my dog is being mistreated in either of the situations I described.   But now all it takes is a "concerned " phone call about the dog being neglected, and here you come to butt in where its not needed.

In 50 years I've had 4 dogs, 2 died of old age and 1 of cancer and 4 cats, all died of old age.  So you can keep you're holier than thou attitude.  I know very well how to care for my animals

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1 hour ago, PeteF said:

Ah now I see where you are coming from.  You are one of the people making money off this crap.   

Please explain to me how my dog is being mistreated in either of the situations I described.   But now all it takes is a "concerned " phone call about the dog being neglected, and here you come to butt in where its not needed.

In 50 years I've had 4 dogs, 2 died of old age and 1 of cancer and 4 cats, all died of old age.  So you can keep you're holier than thou attitude.  I know very well how to care for my animals

Lmao wrong again! I work for a school system now. I do it all for free now just to help out my former boss when needed. 

There is no animal cruelty in either one of the situations you described although they were very vague. 

Here's one for ya even before this new law all it took is one phone call and any animal control officer or cruelty investigator employed by your town can come and ask questions or spca officer employed by the state. 

About the whole " holier than thou" comment pot calling the kettel black No? Your the one who started with the whole "I'm guessing your not a dog owner or know how dogs behave" 

Since you could not answer my first question how about this, why do you think it's a good idea to allow people to chain up short hair dogs outside with heavy chain in tempatures under 32 degrees for 12 hours a day? 

This law was written to help close the "loopholes" that people who abuse and mistreat animals get off Scot free. How is that a bad thing? 

Like I said before just because you treat your animals good dose not mean everyone treats their animals good. 

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6 hours ago, PeteF said:

And that is the exact problem.  A law that is completly subjective.  No one likes animal cruelty, but this law just opens things up for stupidity, like huskies out in the cold.  You can now be ticketed for a perfectly healthy behavior, and then waste time and dollars to prove that a dog designed for the cold is not injured by the cold.  I have to drag my golden back inside when it snows, he will just burrow in and lay there.  He likes it.

There are already laws about animal cruelty, more stupid feel good legislation does nothing except pad lawyers pockets.

Nanny state is fair. But you aren't the guy this is aimed for, nether is it @Howard

this is a hood law....

 

the ironic thing is will will it prevent any mistreatment? @fishnut. Or jus more punishment for the abusers. I think you and I know the answer. Maybe in time when the word gets out... 

Its very strange to me in a 1st world country in 2017 we have all of this " people behaving badly " . Are not we supposed to be better than last year? Last decade? Last century?

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You both are missing the one important aspect of the law and that is animal is chained up. You leave your dog hang out in the snow where he is happy no problem. Same goes for the heat. When he wants to come in he can. Chained up he can not. Chained up is an aspect of the law the way I read the article. I haven't read the actual statute yet, but if chained up is needed for a violation of the law I see no issue.

 

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10 minutes ago, capt14k said:

You both are missing the one important aspect of the law and that is animal is chained up. You leave your dog hang out in the snow where he is happy no problem. Same goes for the heat. When he wants to come in he can. Chained up he can not. Chained up is an aspect of the law the way I read the article. I haven't read the actual statute yet but if chained up is part of violation of the law I see no issue.

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Your confusing 2 part of the law. The law defined the maximum size of link and length of chain.

It also outlaws keeping any dog unsupervised outside under 32 degrees for more than half an hour without a shelter with a floor unless it has appropriate fur thickness. 

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Your confusing 2 part of the law. The law defined the maximum size of link and length of chain.
It also outlaws keeping any dog outside under 32 degrees for more than half an hour without a shelter with a floor unless it has appropriate fur thickness. 
Well that part is ridiculous. I guess I have to read the statute. So much for reporting.

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I edited my post to add unsupervised
That makes it ok. Basically if you are home dog can be anywhere outside. If you go out dog needs a real house outside. Nothing wrong with that.

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The law was designed to keep the scum bags from chaining their pit bulls outside to a tree all year round. 
That's what it sounds like. Which I don't see an issue with. Every wanna be gangsta has a pitbull or King Corso chained up. I would like to chain the gangstas up. If I did some would call me raycist but it has nothing to do with race.

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4 hours ago, fishnut said:

Lmao wrong again! I work for a school system now. I do it all for free now just to help out my former boss when needed. 

There is no animal cruelty in either one of the situations you described although they were very vague. 

Here's one for ya even before this new law all it took is one phone call and any animal control officer or cruelty investigator employed by your town can come and ask questions or spca officer employed by the state. 

About the whole " holier than thou" comment pot calling the kettel black No? Your the one who started with the whole "I'm guessing your not a dog owner or know how dogs behave" 

Since you could not answer my first question how about this, why do you think it's a good idea to allow people to chain up short hair dogs outside with heavy chain in tempatures under 32 degrees for 12 hours a day? 

This law was written to help close the "loopholes" that people who abuse and mistreat animals get off Scot free. How is that a bad thing? 

Like I said before just because you treat your animals good dose not mean everyone treats their animals good. 

Oh so if it just saves 1 animal?  Where have I heard that before Mr Holier than thou.

"I've put more time into the care and Welfare of other people's animals than you have ever put into your own animals."

Not to arrogant.

As to what law why not start with 4:22-26 4&5

"4:22-26. Acts constituting cruelty in general; penalty

A person who shall:

a. (1) Overdrive, overload, drive when overloaded, overwork, abuse, or needlessly kill a living animal or creature, or cause or procure, by any direct or indirect means, including but not limited to through the use of another living animal or creature, any such acts to be done;

(2) Torment, torture, maim, hang, poison, unnecessarily or cruelly beat, cruelly abuse, or needlessly mutilate a living animal or creature, or cause or procure, by any direct or indirect means, including but not limited to through the use of another living animal or creature, any such acts to be done;

(3) Cause the death of, or serious bodily injury to, a living animal or creature from commission of any act described in paragraph (2), (4), (5), or (6) of this subsection, 
by any direct or indirect means, including but not limited to through the use of another living animal or creature, or otherwise cause or procure any such acts to be done;

(4) Fail, as the owner or a person otherwise charged with the care of a living animal or creature, to provide the living animal or creature with necessary care, or otherwise cause or procure such an act to be done; or

(5) Cause bodily injury to a living animal or creature from commission of the act described in paragraph 
(4) of this subsection;"

Who says you get to decide what is good for someone elses dog?  Oh and dont forget to use completely subjective terms like heavy (chain) and short hair?  What is a heavy chain?  A heavy chain to a terrier is a safety hazard to the neighborhood for a rottweiler.  And is the rotty a shorthair? Or maybe a lab?  Or maybe "it depends"?  Like i said its all about the bucks.  "I think its cruel so it is, prove it isn't in court"

Loopholes my ass.  Busy body revenue agents is more like it. 

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4 hours ago, capt14k said:

You both are missing the one important aspect of the law and that is animal is chained up. You leave your dog hang out in the snow where he is happy no problem. Same goes for the heat. When he wants to come in he can. Chained up he can not. Chained up is an aspect of the law the way I read the article. I haven't read the actual statute yet, but if chained up is needed for a violation of the law I see no issue.

 

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So if the dog is in an unfenced yard?   How do you keep the dog in the yard?  Its better to have him chained than running lose.  Chained with water and the ability to get some shade, how is that the least bit cruel?  Do dogs require AC now?  Seems they did fine without it for 1000s of years.

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4:22-26 is not relevant  in the situation I described sorry try again. 

I don't have a fence and I've never chained my dogs yet they don't leave the yard because I TRAINED them. It's really pretty easy. 

Peterf- did you even read the law your so against? The definition for heavy chain is in there. You are so ridiculous with your arguments and you're not even worth my time have a good day I'm done with you

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12 hours ago, capt14k said:

That makes it ok. Basically if you are home dog can be anywhere outside. If you go out dog needs a real house outside. Nothing wrong with that.

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Actually there is something wrong with that.  I have three Huskies and often put them outside when I go out to run errands.  They have an electric fence and much rather be outside playing with each other than trapped in the house.  They like to run and play, especially when it is cold outside.

I get that you don't want a little short haired dog with a 50 pound chain freezing in the sub zero weather.  I don't get the part about this being an issue when it is above 90 degrees.  Most of us probably have air conditioning in our homes, but there are many people that do not, and it is actually better for the animals to be out where there is a breeze than frying in a closed up house that might superheat.

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8 hours ago, capt14k said:

You fence in the yard or use an invisible fence and train the dog. You don't chain them to a tree unattended. Would you like to be chained to a tree?

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Years ago, with other Husky, we did not have an electric fence.  We had him on a 30' chain that was hung from a cable about 10 feet up that ran just about the length of the entire back yard.  That let him run around a good bit of the yard without being able to run away and get hit by a car or lost.

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If dog can be free and has a dog house I see no issue. Chain should not substitute for training. Get a fence. Don't want to fence the whole yard fence an area for a dog run and build a house in it with a floor.

 

Believe it or not there have been instances where a dog ends up injuring itself on a chain. They run around and around the tree maybe chasing a rabbit. Now the dog is wrapped around the tree and hanging from the chain. Maybe it gets a leg caught in the chain that cuts off the circulation. I won't do to my dogs what I wouldn't do myself. Simple rule to follow. When I was a kid I liked having forts. What is so hard about building a dog house if you want to leave your dog outside unattended?

 

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35 minutes ago, capt14k said:

If dog can be free and has a dog house I see no issue. Chain should not substitute for training. Get a fence. Don't want to fence the whole yard fence an area for a dog run and build a house in it with a floor.

 

Believe it or not there have been instances where a dog ends up injuring itself on a chain. They run around and around the tree maybe chasing a rabbit. Now the dog is wrapped around the tree and hanging from the chain. Maybe it gets a leg caught in the chain that cuts off the circulation. I won't do to my dogs what I wouldn't do myself. Simple rule to follow. When I was a kid I liked having forts. What is so hard about building a dog house if you want to leave your dog outside unattended?

 

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Dog house not needed. Access to garage or shed is all that is needed. 

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