Barms 98 Posted August 16, 2017 I guess somehow I joined Apex email list. I have their earliest simple trigger enhancements they are great. Now I'm bombarded with blue and red flat trigger emails. What is the real advantage of that flat trigger. I'm sure it's "better" but better for what/who? Is it shorter pull? Is it mostly for competition? Would it be used in duty? I'm extremely happy with my M&P trigger as is. Just wondering what I gain in a flat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dajonga 396 Posted August 16, 2017 I put an Apex in my Sig P320. The factory trigger had a curve to it that really chewed up my trigger finger. I do not know if the flat trigger improved my shooting accuracy, but is seriously improved my shooting experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSD1026 48 Posted August 16, 2017 Agreed. I put the Apex flat trigger in my 320 as well (before the recall), and it just helps a bit with the leverage on the pull. You can pull closer to the bottom and it gives it s different feel than pulling in the middle of the huge curve the 320 OEM trigger had. Talking about the M&P - well, from all I hear (and i have experienced it as well), the Apex trigger kit for the M&P is a night and day improvement over the stock trigger system. Crisper, lighter, much more smooth and you dont have that annoying segmented trigger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted August 16, 2017 Did you guys install the flat triggers yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted August 16, 2017 I have an M&P 45c with one of those triggers and the DACEK kit. It's an amazing combo... dare I say almost as good as my PPQ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dajonga 396 Posted August 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Barms said: Did you guys install the flat triggers yourself? Yes. On the 320 it was a pretty easy install. I have no idea what the M&P install is like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shocker 150 Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, dajonga said: Yes. On the 320 it was a pretty easy install. I have no idea what the M&P install is like. There's one pin to remove in the beaver tail and the sear block slides out, freeing the trigger bar. There are two pins and the takedown lever above the trigger to remove to slide that section out and free the trigger and return spring. Then you swap the trigger and put everything back. No sweat. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted August 17, 2017 On 8/15/2017 at 10:20 PM, Barms said: What is the real advantage of that flat trigger. I'm still curious about this as well. I assume there is at least a perceived advantage for some, but they just look.....wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted August 17, 2017 in case you missed it there is a voluntary upgrade of the Sig P320. I received the following from Midway below. Note they did not call this a recall. I contacted both Apex and Sig. The Sig rep said there is a lot of misinformation about this out there. In short there were some concerns with a drop test. Anyway the Sig rep said the trigger doesn't have to be removed. When I spoke to the Apex rep he concurred and said the flat trigger is OK but the curved trigger may be impacted so if anyone has the curved you may want to follow up. I'm just going to go thru the process and let them do what they need to do, it wouldn't be the first gun I needed to return for recall or service. So the plan is to send my P320 back with the stock trigger for the "upgrade" and when I get it back I'll put the Apex back it, it might look funny but I love my Apex You are receiving this notice because you recently purchased an Apex Tactical trigger for the Sig P320 pistol (MidwayUSA product numbers 686935, 293153, 972729).Due to Sig Sauer’s recently-announced voluntary upgrade of the Sig P320 pistol, Apex Tactical has suspended sales of their Sig P320 aftermarket triggers. Apex Tactical asks Customers who have purchased an Apex Sig P320 Trigger to stop using the trigger and to please contact Apex Tactical Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 to return the trigger in exchange for credit towards any other Apex product. We apologize for the inconvenience, MidwayUSA Customer Service Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dajonga 396 Posted August 17, 2017 11 hours ago, FXDX said: in case you missed it there is a voluntary upgrade of the Sig P320. I received the following from Midway below. Note they did not call this a recall. I contacted both Apex and Sig. The Sig rep said there is a lot of misinformation about this out there. In short there were some concerns with a drop test. Anyway the Sig rep said the trigger doesn't have to be removed. When I spoke to the Apex rep he concurred and said the flat trigger is OK but the curved trigger may be impacted so if anyone has the curved you may want to follow up. I'm just going to go thru the process and let them do what they need to do, it wouldn't be the first gun I needed to return for recall or service. So the plan is to send my P320 back with the stock trigger for the "upgrade" and when I get it back I'll put the Apex back it, it might look funny but I love my Apex You are receiving this notice because you recently purchased an Apex Tactical trigger for the Sig P320 pistol (MidwayUSA product numbers 686935, 293153, 972729).Due to Sig Sauer’s recently-announced voluntary upgrade of the Sig P320 pistol, Apex Tactical has suspended sales of their Sig P320 aftermarket triggers. Apex Tactical asks Customers who have purchased an Apex Sig P320 Trigger to stop using the trigger and to please contact Apex Tactical Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 to return the trigger in exchange for credit towards any other Apex product. We apologize for the inconvenience, MidwayUSA Customer Service I am in the same boat. I shoot the 320 better than any other gun I have ever owned. I am registered w/ sig and will send gun, with stock trigger, back to them for the "upgrade". When I get it back, I will install the Apex again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pew Pew Plates 358 Posted August 17, 2017 I have a flat trigger on my CZ75 and I LOVE it. I love it so much I also went to a flat trigger on my competition rifle as well. It feels much better to me, but it is personal preference. I do not have experience with the specific trigger you question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted August 17, 2017 On 8/15/2017 at 10:20 PM, Barms said: What is the real advantage of that flat trigger. I'm sure it's "better" but better for what/who? Is it shorter pull? Is it mostly for competition? Only you can decide if the ergonomics of a flat trigger are for you, but they are for me. When correctly build for the gun, they will tend to break when they are in the most vertical position, perpendicular to the line of sight. For a lot of shooters this helps with trigger control, as you are pulling straight back at when the gun fires so you have less likelihood to move the gun around with the trigger. I think this is happens to be part of the reason why the 1911 triggers are considered by many to be the gold standard. I don't think they are a must have for everyone, but they are for me, nearly every gun I care about shooting well has a flat trigger, pistols or rifles. I'm even curious now if someone makes them for shotguns. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barms 98 Posted August 17, 2017 So just while this thread is live, If it turns out I don't want to attempt it myself. Anybody in north NJ who installed the flat trigger on an M&P and would want do/help with mine if I buy the trigger please let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted August 17, 2017 I do not like flat triggers. I personally do not see any advantages on any pistol other than maybe a 1911 style gun where the trigger is essentially a "button" that you push straight back vs the "switch" that pivots on a hinge at the top of the lever that most other pistols have. I tried a bunch of different flat triggers when researching a trigger to upgrade a Glock I was messing around with. I ended up going with the Overwatch Falx trigger which retains the original curve of the stock OEM triggers, but removes the pre-travel. That being said, the reason I tried so many flat triggers was that people I know that shoot well, seem to prefer them and I know a few guys that shoot flat triggers like the proverbial "House on fire". There is obviously something there that works, it just isn't for me. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted August 18, 2017 HE, have you tried them on rifles ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted August 18, 2017 Yup. I have a Geissele SDE. Do not like it as much as my SSA triggers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted August 18, 2017 I've spent the last four months really working on my pistol skills, shooting 1500-2000 rounds of 9mm a month through my daily carry M&P which has the Apex FSS with flat trigger. For me, it's the best trigger yet in a striker fired gun but that's my opinion. It's not quite a 1911 trigger but it's the closest approximation to it that I've felt to date with the Overwatch TAC in a Gen4 G17 being second. While I won't credit the trigger upgrade solely with the improvement in my shooting, it certainly makes it easier to shoot well. My setup breaks at 3.8lbs (averaged over 10 pulls), has about 1/4" of pre-travel and another 1/8" of movement until the trigger breaks with minimal overtravel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted August 19, 2017 7 hours ago, MidwestPX said: I've spent the last four months really working on my pistol skills, shooting 1500-2000 rounds of 9mm a month through my daily carry M&P which has the Apex FSS with flat trigger. For me, it's the best trigger yet in a striker fired gun but that's my opinion. It's not quite a 1911 trigger but it's the closest approximation to it that I've felt to date with the Overwatch TAC in a Gen4 G17 being second. While I won't credit the trigger upgrade solely with the improvement in my shooting, it certainly makes it easier to shoot well. My setup breaks at 3.8lbs (averaged over 10 pulls), has about 1/4" of pre-travel and another 1/8" of movement until the trigger breaks with minimal overtravel. Is the pre-travel adjustable? I have a PPQ and I'd like to eliminate as much as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted August 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said: Is the pre-travel adjustable? I have a PPQ and I'd like to eliminate as much as possible. No, it is not. The forward set sear (FSS) kit and flat face trigger are non-adjustable. Personally, I'm pretty happy with 1/4" of pre-travel. The trigger is smooth enough that with a constant velocity trigger press, the minimal pre-travel is a non-issue (at least for me). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted August 19, 2017 Thanks Ty. From what I'm reading the pre-travel is for disengaging the firing pin block. In the interest of safety, I'll just practice more instead of tinkering. ☺ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted August 20, 2017 12 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said: Thanks Ty. From what I'm reading the pre-travel is for disengaging the firing pin block. In the interest of safety, I'll just practice more instead of tinkering. ☺ Thats correct, don't mess with pretravel and be weary of the triggers that claim to reduce pretravel. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,872 Posted August 20, 2017 Unless you've got an inordinate amount of pre-travel why even bother messing with it? With a tactile break and reset, pre-travel is pretty much moot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted August 21, 2017 21 hours ago, Krdshrk said: Unless you've got an inordinate amount of pre-travel why even bother messing with it? With a tactile break and reset, pre-travel is pretty much moot. It depends. The more I shoot the more I realize that reset feel doesn't really matter. If I'm shooting at any speed my finger comes fully off the trigger, I don't ride the reset. That means that I do a full trigger press for every pull, which means the pre-travel happens every time. Lots of people would like that full travel length to be shorter and lighter so they try to take out the pretravel which is really a terrible idea from a safety perspective. Overtravel, sure leave only what you need, over travel should be left alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites