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ShadowShu

Temporary home or staying in another home with your legally owned guns

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I'm a legal owner and always was curious on NJ law regarding staying the night or a few nights somewhere in NJ other than you primary residence with your legal firearm.  Can you do that?  What if you have to use it to defend yourself or your hosts?  Is it legal to transport if not from a gun store/range to home or vice versa?

So an example, I go to stay at my girlfriends home for a night or a week and legally transport my gun there.  I keep it secure there is that legal?  If someone broke in and I was cornered and exhausted all reasonable means to get away and had to defend myself how does that change not being my residence?  

I know NJ is crazy with self defense in your own home as it is, but am curious how this would work and if plausible?  

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32 minutes ago, ShadowShu said:

I'm a legal owner and always was curious on NJ law regarding staying the night or a few nights somewhere in NJ other than you primary residence with your legal firearm.  Can you do that?  What if you have to use it to defend yourself or your hosts?  Is it legal to transport if not from a gun store/range to home or vice versa?

So an example, I go to stay at my girlfriends home for a night or a week and legally transport my gun there.  I keep it secure there is that legal?  If someone broke in and I was cornered and exhausted all reasonable means to get away and had to defend myself how does that change not being my residence?  

I know NJ is crazy with self defense in your own home as it is, but am curious how this would work and if plausible?  

Your key statement is "girlfriends home for a night or a week and legally transport my gun there.

You can't legally transport a handgun to other than a PRNJ defined "Exempt Location"

.Your home or a property or business owned by you.

A range.

An FFL.

Since your girlfriends, friends or relatives house is not listed as an exempted place, it's a no go in Jersey. No legal way to do an illegal thing. Not worth the serious trouble you would be in if you were caught in transport or at the visited house!

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Yes - If your primary home became inhabitable (fire, floods , earth quake, about to be looted due to civil unrest, god decided to teach you a lesson etc), dont have any other "residence" or cannot get to it safely, you take your legal firearms and move to a safe place and do what you got to do. If you do everything kosher and end up in legal battle with the state, PM me and I will try my best to raise money for legal defense. 

No - If your primary home is habitable but you just felt like hanging out at GF house and want to carry your handgun(s) with you. Keep the bank account loaded for your own legal defense. 

Someone is going to bring up Hurricane Sandy. 

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Sandy was a special situation and in such an extreme situation it would be important to move your guns to a safe location so they do not fall into the wrong hands.

ShadowShu's intentions, as stated, obviously fall into the NO, NOT LEGAL catagory. I saw no need to muddy the waters. (No pun on Sandy intended).

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IMHO, if you stay occasionally at the girlfriend's crib, clothes and toiletries present, it is your residence at that time. Just like a hotel. You may need to prove that however.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, PK90 said:

IMHO, if you stay occasionally at the girlfriend's crib, clothes and toiletries present, it is your residence at that time. Just like a hotel. You may need to prove that however.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 

I agree.  You can have multiple residences.  Your name doesn't have to be on a lease or rental agreement.  You don't have to own it to reside there.  If you meet the conditions PK90 listed you periodically reside there.  

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^^^You two handled the "Sandy EXEMPTION" quite well, so BRAVO, lol!  And Paul handled the temporary residence that you might have to PROVE with used aftershave & toothbrush.  And GRIZ is right, you don't have to OWN a residence to live there!

So I'll just chime-in with this tidbit:  If you write "LONG GUN" instead of merely "gun" in your explanation of intentions, and you happen to have a valid NJFPID Card, then you may transport your UNLOADED Long Gun (rifle or scattergun) at any time of the day or night, ANYWHERE in NJ 'cept for a Gun Free Zone, Military Installation/Federal Building, or illegal Gun "Buy-Back" in  a Newark, Camden, Patterson or New Brunswick Church basements :) .  So when you say or write "GUN" here on the forum, it's still a little vague.  Zip gun, Desert Eagle in .50 A.E. or any HAND GUN in-between is a HAND GUN.  

If you pay the Direct TV bill (or any other monthly ongoing expense) at the GF's house or Apt., you just hit the JACKPOT, cause now you have PROOF OF A SECOND RESIDENCE w/o someone examining your Aqua Velva bottle :) .  So now your HAND GUN is kosher (just don't let the nosy neighbor in 3B see ya packin' in the hallway while you get the mail :) )

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1 minute ago, Smokin .50 said:

^^^You two handled the "Sandy EXEMPTION" quite well, so BRAVO, lol!  And Paul handled the temporary residence that you might have to PROVE with used aftershave & toothbrush.  And GRIZ is right, you don't have to OWN a residence to live there!

So I'll just chime-in with this tidbit:  If you write "LONG GUN" instead of merely "gun" in your explanation of intentions, and you happen to have a valid NJFPID Card, then you may transport your UNLOADED Long Gun (rifle or scattergun) at any time of the day or night, ANYWHERE in NJ 'cept for a Gun Free Zone, Military Installation/Federal Building, or illegal Gun "Buy-Back" in  a Newark, Camden, Patterson or New Brunswick Church basements :) .  So when you say or write "GUN" here on the forum, it's still a little vague.  Zip gun, Desert Eagle in .50 A.E. or any HAND GUN in-between is a HAND GUN.  

If you pay the Direct TV bill (or any other monthly ongoing expense) at the GF's house or Apt., you just hit the JACKPOT, cause now you have PROOF OF A SECOND RESIDENCE w/o someone examining your Aqua Velva bottle :) .  So now your HAND GUN is kosher (just don't let the nosy neighbor in 3B see ya packin' in the hallway while you get the mail :) )

Rosie.   You still got it old man. :D

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5 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

Rosie.   You still got it old man. :D

Thanks Ed!  I try to be both enlightening & entertaining.  These dry laws can drive a man to DRINK!  I'll be here till Tuesday; try the veal, lol!

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18 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

What about  a hotel?

Residence is likely defined as place you sleep, eat, keep personal belongings, etc on a regular basis.  It doesn't have to be certain days or a certain amount of time spent there a year.

If you did all these things at a hotel it would probably qualify.  The difference with a hotel is you're just there for a certain perid of time.  You don't leave personal belongings there when you check out.

IMO, hotels don't qualify as a residence for virtually everyone under NJ firearms law.

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24 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Residence is likely defined as place you sleep, eat, keep personal belongings, etc on a regular basis.  It doesn't have to be certain days or a certain amount of time spent there a year.

If you did all these things at a hotel it would probably qualify.  The difference with a hotel is you're just there for a certain perid of time.  You don't leave personal belongings there when you check out.

IMO, hotels don't qualify as a residence for virtually everyone under NJ firearms law.

interesting ... so if you have another home in another "free" state, can you legally travel with your hand gun to it (of course following all NJ gun transportation nonsense)?

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Overnight stay in hotels (airbnb and other million variations) is NOT considered a domicile or residence.  Claiming you leave a pair of underwear at your GF / BF place does not qualify as a domicile or residence.

There are always tricky situations. Someone may have a unique situation of living out of hotel for few months, made special arrangement with the hotel on pricing, conduct their daily routine/business out of the place - May be.

Or someone got a kid with GF and live few days out of GF house - May be.

Or your work is closer to GF house and you really stay there 5 days a week and come back your other home over weekend - or other way around - May be. 

 A typical Judge Judy can squeeze it out of you in few minutes. 

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15 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Residence is likely defined as place you sleep, eat, keep personal belongings, etc on a regular basis.  It doesn't have to be certain days or a certain amount of time spent there a year.

If you did all these things at a hotel it would probably qualify.  The difference with a hotel is you're just there for a certain perid of time.  You don't leave personal belongings there when you check out.

IMO, hotels don't qualify as a residence for virtually everyone under NJ firearms law.

In a "typical" hotel situation, I 100% concur.  Where I tend to "stray in interpretation" is when it comes to these "long-term" "Residence Inns" set-up for contracted employees to live there for months at a time, while under contract.  Some of these multi-month contracts can last half a year or more, so the contract employees never "check-out" until their contract position expires.  They leave their personal belongings at the hotel all the time, while both at work & "play" during non-working times.  They receive mail there, so IMO, in that specific case, it qualifies as a residence.  If you don't get mail there & don't leave your personal belongings there, then it's NOT a residence.  You are correct!  Hotels don't qualify as a residence 99.9% of the time since hardly anyone can say they get MAIL there. 

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1 minute ago, Sam1 said:

So do you need to carry proof of ownership?

NO!  I inherited hand guns w/o any P2P's in the 80's.  NO paperwork.  Guys brought home .45's from the last 3 major conflicts in the 20th century.  My dad was one of them.  Not every gun in NJ has a paper trail to find :) 

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12 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

interesting ... so if you have another home in another "free" state, can you legally travel with your hand gun to it (of course following all NJ gun transportation nonsense)?

You don't need a residence or home to transport your handgun out of state.   You're covered under FOPA as long as your possession of the gun is legal where you start and legal where you arrive.  You need to follow FOPA transportation rules which are a little more restrictive than NJ.

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5 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

Out of state home, to show that you're taking your gun to your other home

We are venturing into EXTREMELY UNLIKELY scenarios. If I got stopped in NJ, then they got probable cause (or I bad mouthed them), then I got searched, then they found my stash, then they suspect me of gun / drug running, then they found my 12,000 cash in rubber band bundles, then they question me, then I tell him about going somewhere, then they refuse to believe it.. then I SHUT MY MOUTH AND ASK FOR LAWYER. 

In all seriousness, I do not carry any proof of any home or any proof of going anywhere I said I am going. If it comes to that, I would have bigger things to worry about. 

And what GRIZ said ^^^^^

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15 minutes ago, jackandjill said:

We are venturing into EXTREMELY UNLIKELY scenarios. If I got stopped in NJ, then they got probable cause (or I bad mouthed them), then I got searched, then they found my stash, then they suspect me of gun / drug running, then they found my 12,000 cash in rubber band bundles, then they question me, then I tell him about going somewhere, then they refuse to believe it.. then I SHUT MY MOUTH AND ASK FOR LAWYER. 

In all seriousness, I do not carry any proof of any home or any proof of going anywhere I said I am going. If it comes to that, I would have bigger things to worry about. 

And what GRIZ said ^^^^^

Good point 

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6 hours ago, jackandjill said:

Overnight stay in hotels (airbnb and other million variations) is NOT considered a domicile or residence.  Claiming you leave a pair of underwear at your GF / BF place does not qualify as a domicile or residence.

There are always tricky situations. Someone may have a unique situation of living out of hotel for few months, made special arrangement with the hotel on pricing, conduct their daily routine/business out of the place - May be.

Or someone got a kid with GF and live few days out of GF house - May be.

Or your work is closer to GF hour and you really stay there 5 days a week and come back your other home over weekend - or other way around - May be. 

 A typical Judge Judy can squeeze it out of you in few minutes. 

Judge Judy is entertainment.  One of the judge shows I like but it's entertainment. 

A hearing, only before a judge, requires the judge to decide matters of fact and law.  The judge only decides on matters of law in a trial with a jury.  The jury decides fact and if that fact indicates you broke the law as far as they are concerned find you guilty.

The only way just about any firearms violation in NJ is going to put you just before a judge is:

1.  You requested a hearing instead of a trial.  This can be a smart move in some criminal cases.

2.  You've pled guilty or guilty to a lesser offense.  

To do either of #2  you have to admit to the judge you've committed all the elements of a crime.

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6 hours ago, Sam1 said:

interesting ... so if you have another home in another "free" state, can you legally travel with your hand gun to it (of course following all NJ gun transportation nonsense)?

You need to follow FOPA if it’s interstate.  

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Interestingly neither domicile or residence are defined in NJ firearm laws. There is a common law definition as jackandjill, GRIZ, and Smokin .50 have pointed out:

Black's Law Dictionary
http://thelawdictionary.org/residence/
"Living or dwelling in a certain place permanently or for a considerable length of time. The place where a man makes his home, or where he dwells permanently or for an extended period of time."
 

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18 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

What if you live in a van, down by the river?

That would be an interesting situation in NJ.  IIRC you need to give a street address to get a FID and driver's license.  I could be wrong on that.  You may have moved (you and your van) from another state with the firearm.  

I knew of some people who lived in vans (VW Microbuses the choice in the 60s and 70s)  but none of them owned firearms.  Surfboards and guitars yes but no guns.

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7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Judge Judy is entertainment.  One of the judge shows I like but it's entertainment. 

A hearing, only before a judge, requires the judge to decide matters of fact and law.  The judge only decides on matters of law in a trial with a jury.  The jury decides fact and if that fact indicates you broke the law as far as they are concerned find you guilty.

The only way just about any firearms violation in NJ is going to put you just before a judge is:

1.  You requested a hearing instead of a trial.  This can be a smart move in some criminal cases.

2.  You've pled guilty or guilty to a lesser offense.  

To do either of #2  you have to admit to the judge you've committed all the elements of a crime.

May be its Detective Dave, Prosecutor Pete, Judge Judy and Jury James, all in the room looking at the person claiming the ridiculous "domicile". :-) 

Point is, people with much bigger things at stake than couple of firearms try creative ways to claim domicile / residence. Some get away and some get caught.  Some are so silly, they might as well skip the real legal system and just go in front of JJ. 

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I have run into people attempting to acquire firearms that live in an RV with a post office address on their DL. It would be easy to get a DL with the following example.

John Doe
14 Walnut Street
Unit #2067
Bordentown, NJ
08505

It may be hard getting passed the PD for a NJ FPID, but in states where one only needs a DL to buy guns, the gun dealer is the only one to catch it.

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