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Mrs. Peel

Special Tax on Guns in NJ?

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Did everyone see this article already? Potential Gov. Murphy the Turkey wants to place a special tax on guns - NJ2AS has an article about it published in an online gun site. Link: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/robert-farago/new-jersey-democratic-gubernatorial-hopeful-phil-murphy-planning-to-tax-firearms/

My thoughts (in no particular order):

- I'll reiterate what we already know... If this guy gets in, it will be "no holds barred" against legal gun owners (not illegal gun owners, mind you... they'll be JUST FINE!)

- Why oh why does NJ2AS always post on a national website like The Truth About Guns... but NOT here? (I guess this relates to Zeke's earlier question on the same topic). But it's almost starting to tick me off. If you want to reach out and expand your membership base... wouldn't you tap into something called "NEW JERSEY Gun Forums?" rather than posting on out-of-state sites? Why not post to both of those? (Sheesh! I'm almost starting to question their marketing chops. Hope I'm wrong).

- That said, as much as this hobby is already killing me on costs (even just the accessories, eyes, ears, mags, etc.) ... I personally intend to grit my teeth, dip into my shrinking bank account, and cough up the bucks to join the few NJ 2A groups. I figure I can afford that... all seem to have reasonable dues. And I can only hope these groups will cooperate amongst each other... and make wise choices. We're going to need all the advocacy we can muster - and some of that needs to come from in-state sources, I think.

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1 hour ago, brucin said:

I think NJ2AS just got tired of all the negativity they had to endure on this site.

I understand. But, under the circumstances, they might need to toughen their skin and "get over it". They can always open a thread with a line saying they are posting but won't be monitoring the thread -- and simply use it as a place to post updates. I just think they need to be in "recruiting mode" more than ever - and when you're recruiting, sometimes the more difficult sources yield the best rewards. This site, if nothing else, is obviously "geographically desirable" - it is an expanding pool of gun owners - almost entirely in NJ. Sheesh! This seems pretty obvious. 

When I join, I assume they share these links directly with their members?... if so, maybe I'll just get in the habit of posting them here (if they still aren't). Sometimes it's just easier to shut up and do it yourself. LOL.

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

- That said, as much as this hobby is already killing me on costs (even just the accessories, eyes, ears, mags, etc.) ... I personally intend to grit my teeth, dip into my shrinking bank account, and cough up the bucks to join the few NJ 2A groups. I figure I can afford that... all seem to have reasonable dues. And I can only hope these groups will cooperate amongst each other... and make wise choices. We're going to need all the advocacy we can muster - and some of that needs to come from in-state sources, I think.

All the 2A groups in NJ fight amongst themselves. Part of the problem is that a lot of gun owners only care about shooting their shotguns at the trap & skeet range or bolt action rifles on lead sleds. The hunting groups don't care about right to carry, normal capacity magazines, pistol grips, etc. We don't stick together and we're our own worst enemies.  

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37 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

All the 2A groups in NJ fight amongst themselves. Part of the problem is that a lot of gun owners only care about shooting their shotguns at the trap & skeet range or bolt action rifles on lead sleds. The hunting groups don't care about right to carry, normal capacity magazines, pistol grips, etc. We don't stick together and we're our own worst enemies.  

I agree with you, I posted awhile ago. They go after us first, the rifle and shot gunners don't care, we lose our mag. Capacity and more, then after were gone go after them. Divide and conquer. We all lose. We really need to stick together now not later. 

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14 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

All the 2A groups in NJ fight amongst themselves. Part of the problem is that a lot of gun owners only care about shooting their shotguns at the trap & skeet range or bolt action rifles on lead sleds. The hunting groups don't care about right to carry, normal capacity magazines, pistol grips, etc. We don't stick together and we're our own worst enemies.  

We're not fighting with anybody!  Quite the contrary, as we've been the voice of reason calling for unity & communication so as to enable the biggest bang for the buck.  The Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners is constantly reaching-out to hunters multiple times a year.  We run hunting events as a way of bringing the hunter & the 2A Patriot together.  We're the ONLY group that does that.  We educate the public.  We make appearances on Gun For Hire Radio (yesterday's Show #325 the latest example).  Our membership meetings are open to the public (next one is at RTSP on Wednesday 9-13-17 at 7pm).  We're also the only 2A group besides ANJR&PC to be at every NJSAFE Convention (this year's is at Princeton Marriott at Forrestal on Saturday 9-23-17).  We're also the only active 2A group on the forum.  Oh, and did I mention we're having an OPEN-TO-THE-PUBLIC Family Picnic this coming Sunday August 27th at Medwick Park in Carteret, NJ?  $20 pp, kids 5-11 $10, and 4 & under are FREE!  DJ entertainment, Shaneen Allen speaking on her work in DC on National Reciprocity (HR 38), Sean Fisher doing a "Get Out SAFE" program, games, raffles, prizes, and a silent auction for Pew Pew Plates static steel (a vendor on THIS FORUM) and so much more!  Tickets can be purchased here: http://www.cnjfo.com/event-2501339 .

Have an idea?  Want to join or run a committee?  We're all ears!  Let's work TOGETHER to make NJ a better, safer place to live & work.

Dave Rosenthal, VP

http://www.cnjfo.com

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I understand. But, under the circumstances, they might need to toughen their skin and "get over it". They can always open a thread with a line saying they are posting but won't be monitoring the thread -- and simply use it as a place to post updates. I just think they need to be in "recruiting mode" more than ever - and when you're recruiting, sometimes the more difficult sources yield the best rewards. This site, if nothing else, is obviously "geographically desirable" - it is an expanding pool of gun owners - almost entirely in NJ. Sheesh! This seems pretty obvious. 

When I join, I assume they share these links directly with their members?... if so, maybe I'll just get in the habit of posting them here (if they still aren't). Sometimes it's just easier to shut up and do it yourself. LOL.

No need for them to "toughen their skin", they've been around a while & are an in your face org out in the trenches asking tough questions, taking gotchya videos, filing lawsuits and showing up in town hall meetings to argue for the 2A. If you're a member you get the emails like the one above. A very worthy group going about their/our agenda, more power to them.

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Since re-invigorating my interest in firearms and 2A four years ago, I have joined and been routinely donating to NRA(Patriot Life member), SAF, ANJRPC, and NJ2AS. I view them, for the most part, as organizations whose missions complement each other in the overall fight for our rights.  While listening to Dave on the G4H podcast on Sunday, I also joined CNJFO. 

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11 minutes ago, oldguysrule649 said:

 I also joined CNJFO. 

Does that stand for "Citizen of NJ, F*** Off"?

As for the Tax:  why wouldn't that be the same as a poll tax and be unconstitutional?  I know other places, like Seattle just adopted one as well. Is it just that they haven't been challenged in the courts yet or is there precedent?

once/if NJ successfully adopts a tax, how long before it is raised to infinity?  Once the concept is accepted it will be much easier to incrementally increase it until it becomes restrictive. 

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13 hours ago, sota said:

all the more reason to get the bunch stuffed into my chosen FFL(s) safes for pick up at future dates.

Don't count on that saving you.  The easiest plan would be for tax would be for the tax to be collected by FFLS at time of transfer.

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2 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Does that stand for "Citizen of NJ, F*** Off"?

As for the Tax:  why wouldn't that be the same as a poll tax and be unconstitutional?  I know other places, like Seattle just adopted one as well. Is it just that they haven't been challenged in the courts yet or is there precedent?

once/if NJ successfully adopts a tax, how long before it is raised to infinity?  Once the concept is accepted it will be much easier to incrementally increase it until it becomes restrictive. 

Same as poll tax?  Maybe...maybe not.  Municipalities charge fees for a parade permit.  No one's ever got anywhere contesting that AFAIK.  That's a 1A right you have to pay to exercise.

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this is exactly why I went on a spree and picked up a new rifle, shottie and a pistol all within the past month before the murphdoom.

will be looking into joining up some orgs, dont have much hope but at least I'll know I did more than sit on my keyboard.

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47 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Same as poll tax?  Maybe...maybe not.  Municipalities charge fees for a parade permit.  No one's ever got anywhere contesting that AFAIK.  That's a 1A right you have to pay to exercise.

Not exactly the same thing, though. A parade costs the township money (PD hours) and impact through traffic disruption. As long as the cost of a permit is actual and reasonable there isn't a very strong case to fight it. Can the same claim (cost) be made for legal gun ownership?  Having a firearm in the safe doesn't cost the state anything. 

Also a parade permit can gun purchase tax are two different concepts. One says "it will cost you to exercise your 1A in this specific localized  place". The other is "it will cost you to exercise your entire 2A right in this entire state"

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45 minutes ago, peacewalker said:

this is exactly why I went on a spree and picked up a new rifle, shottie and a pistol all within the past month before the murphdoom.

will be looking into joining up some orgs, dont have much hope but at least I'll know I did more than sit on my keyboard.

Similar here. With Murphdoom(catchy phrase, btw) and approaching retirement  in mind, I have just ordered a new rifle and applied for three more P2Ps. Basically accelerating all my future planned purchases of firearms and associated accessories and supplies.  Getting it all out of the way now as I may not be able to afford these purchases later. 

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2 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Not exactly the same thing, though. A parade costs the township money (PD hours) and impact through traffic disruption. As long as the cost of a permit is actual and reasonable there isn't a very strong case to fight it. Can the same claim (cost) be made for legal gun ownership?  Having a firearm in the safe doesn't cost the state anything. 

Also a parade permit can gun purchase tax are two different concepts. One says "it will cost you to exercise your 1A in this specific localized  place". The other is "it will cost you to exercise your entire 2A right in this entire state"

It remains to be seen.  IIRC, there's a SCOTUS decision in the early 90s that says you can't charge more for a parade permit for the Neo-Nazis than you do for the sunday school class that's having a Halloween parade around the block. You can't charge more it you think the group applying has radical ideas that are going to cost more in police presence.  The cost of a permit never reflects what a municipality lays out for police and traffic control.  The last I looked NYC charges $45 for a parade permit.  Even if they make every organization marching in the St Patrick's Day parade pay that fee it doesn't come near reimbursing the city.

I think you'd find parade permit fees in everywhere in NJ.  So in effect you do have to pay to exercise your 1A rights in the state.  Lots of places you are not allowed to exercise your 1A rights.  Try getting a parade permit to have a parade on the GSP, NJTP, or ACE.

Don't get me wrong I'm not supporting this or any of Murphy's ideas.  It's just an attempt to pass a new tax under the guise of "gun safety".  Just a way for the Democrats get more money to promote their total agenda.

 

 

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6 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Since re-invigorating my interest in firearms and 2A four years ago, I have joined and been routinely donating to NRA(Patriot Life member), SAF, ANJRPC, and NJ2AS. I view them, for the most part, as organizations whose missions complement each other in the overall fight for our rights.  While listening to Dave on the G4H podcast on Sunday, I also joined CNJFO. 

Thanks for joining the fight!  Hope to see you at NJSAFE, a meeting, a match, meet-up, etc.

Dave

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6 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Does that stand for "Citizen of NJ, F*** Off"?

As for the Tax:  why wouldn't that be the same as a poll tax and be unconstitutional?  I know other places, like Seattle just adopted one as well. Is it just that they haven't been challenged in the courts yet or is there precedent?

once/if NJ successfully adopts a tax, how long before it is raised to infinity?  Once the concept is accepted it will be much easier to incrementally increase it until it becomes restrictive. 

The biggest obstacle to challenge would be the federal excise tax on firearms. It is essentially a special sales tax on firearms and ammo at the federal level. It provides the majority of funding to government conservation efforts. 

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They are going to be taxing criminals, it won't be legal to own a firearm in NJ much longer.  Not without special permits that need to be renewed every 2 years requiring a $50 tax stamp for each baby killer you own with the funds to go towards the widows and orphans fund, managed by the State Democrats for distribution as they see fit.  Make sure your clean your house before your 'interviews' to determine whether or not you're fit to own a firearm.  They'll also need to let all of your neighbors and your employer know about your arsenal and possible blood lust.

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If enacted and if it's a substantial tax say 15% on top of NJ's 7% sales tax it will hurt NJ FFL's. 

Since the average person can only purchase 1 handgun a month without applying for a waiver most stores I would think make the bulk of their money from long gun sales. That and ammo and accessories. Probably more on the latter two.

While I prefer to support local business since Shitty Gannet saw fit to eliminate my job after 24 years I am now on a budget and will always purchase something if it's 15% cheaper somewhere else. I'm sure there are many others who while not in the same boat as me will go to PA NY MD or DE to avoid paying more for the same product. 

This tax as they'll call it is just a way for the anti's to put gun stores out of business.

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On 8/21/2017 at 8:20 PM, ChrisJM981 said:

All the 2A groups in NJ fight amongst themselves. Part of the problem is that a lot of gun owners only care about shooting their shotguns at the trap & skeet range or bolt action rifles on lead sleds. The hunting groups don't care about right to carry, normal capacity magazines, pistol grips, etc. We don't stick together and we're our own worst enemies.  

I feel it is simple. The second amendment doesn't discriminate. I should be able to walk up to a store and buy whatever the hell I want. Whether it be a pocket pistol or fully automatic SCAR. If the states don't like it then come together on a constitutional amendment but prepare for civil war.

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Well, here's an article from 2015 where Porto Rico's gun permit process, handgun database and $1000 permit fee process was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge. 

http://www.guampdn.com/story/opinion/2015/07/15/puerto-rico-gun-case-could-have-ripple-effect/30121449/

And here's one with the same result for the Mariana Islands

http://www.guns.com/2016/09/30/court-finds-1k-excise-tax-on-handguns-to-be-unconstitutional/

but here's one for Seattle where the judge allowed the gun tax

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/judge-upholds-seattles-gun-and-ammunition-tax/

 

so I think we have the makings of a Supreme Court case if NJ does go that route. We already have conflicting Federal rulings.

-Jim

 

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