Questions for NJ State Police Firearms Unit at NJ SAFE 2017

[Zeke 5,504]

" Are there any guidelines that you are aware of for the definition of justifiable need? If so, can we be furnished with or directed to such information ?"

[Smokin .50 1,907]

2 hours ago, John Willett said:

I am interested in gathering any questions folks have.  Don't worry too much about how it's written, if its a repeat, or whether someone asks a question you think might be obvious.  We are brainstorming here.  In a week or two all the submissions will be synthesized into one coherent list before being passed along.  

Brainstorming is good!  In that vain, let's ask one of the most asked questions on the forum:

"Will the NJSP web site be updated with what a citizen CAN DO with firearms and replace the mumbo-jumbo of conflicting info, including the co-mingling of 2C Statute intrastate laws & interstate FOPA guidelines now written as "going through New Jersey"?  It can be somewhat simplified as thus:  "How to transport firearms WITHIN NJ as a NJ resident"  & "How to transport firearms INTO NJ from another state while moving to or attending a sanctioned match in NJ"  

Man oh man would THAT help!  Cause right now, all the Newbies read that EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL and they never read the EXEMPTIONS correctly!

[High Exposure 5,662]

3 minutes ago, Zeke said:

" Has the current AG given any guidelines for reasonable deviations. Or does the NJSP have guidelines for reasonable deviations. And , can we be directed to or furinished with such guidelines.?

Here's the issue with questions like these - you have to understand how the system works. 

There is no way for a representative of the NJSP to answer that accurately. 

If you are arrested for a "deviation" or for a "handgun transportation" crime you will be charged by an officer following the guidance of an Assistant Prosecutor of the County Prosecutor's Office of the county you are arrested in.

With each County Prosecutor in our state having a different interpretation of the law and a different stance on the 2A.

If there is a disagreement regarding charges at the State Court level, then NJDCJ and the AGs office will step in an offer guidance - Not the NJSP FAU.

If a Cop or a Trooper has a question regarding the interpretation of anything in NJSA 2C, they call the zone prosecutor (the Assistant Pros assigned to your jurisdiction by that county's prosecutor's office) for the county they are in. They will give guidance on all applicable charges. 

We don't call the NJSP because what they think falls under "reasonable" doesn't matter. Only what the Prosecutor thinks counts for charging. What the judge thinks is what matters after that.

[High Exposure 5,662]

11 minutes ago, Zeke said:

" Are there any guidelines that you are aware of for the definition of justifiable need? If so, can we be furnished with or directed to such information ?"

The courts determine justifiable need. Not the NJSP FAU. You don't get denied by a Trooper. You get denied by a judge.

Some of these are wuestions better asked of the AG or a representative from the DCJ.

[High Exposure 5,662]

12 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

Brainstorming is good!  In that vain, let's ask one of the most asked questions on the forum:

"Will the NJSP web site be updated with what a citizen CAN DO with firearms and replace the mumbo-jumbo of conflicting info, including the co-mingling of 2C Statute intrastate laws & interstate FOPA guidelines now written as "going through New Jersey"?  It can be somewhat simplified as thus:  "How to transport firearms WITHIN NJ as a NJ resident"  & "How to transport firearms INTO NJ from another state while moving to or attending a sanctioned match in NJ"  

Man oh man would THAT help!  Cause right now, all the Newbies read that EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL and they never read the EXEMPTIONS correctly!

This would be a great question. 

[Zeke 5,504]

7 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

The courts determine justifiable need. Not the NJSP FAU. You don't get denied by a Trooper. You get denied by a judge.

Some of these are wuestions better asked of the AG or a representative from the DCJ.

And I should be directed to such...

[Zeke 5,504]

13 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Here's the issue with questions like these - you have to understand how the system works. 

There is no way for a representative of the NJSP to answer that accurately. 

If you are arrested for a "deviation" or for a "handgun transportation" crime you will be charged by an officer following the guidance of an Assistant Prosecutor of the County Prosecutor's Office of the county you are arrested in.

With each County Prosecutor in our state having a different interpretation of the law and a different stance on the 2A.

If there is a disagreement regarding charges at the State Court level, then NJDCJ and the AGs office will step in an offer guidance - Not the NJSP FAU.

If a Cop or a Trooper has a question regarding the interpretation of anything in NJSA 2C, they call the zone prosecutor (the Assistant Pros assigned to your jurisdiction by that county's prosecutor's office) for the county they are in. They will give guidance on all applicable charges. 

We don't call the NJSP because what they think falls under "reasonable" doesn't matter. Only what the Prosecutor thinks counts for charging. What the judge thinks is what matters after that.

And there are no Guidelines from the state AG... Bret 

[NJGF 375]

"There is no specific exemption to take ones handgun to another state in which we have a CCW unless we are going to an exempt location (like a range). Can we take a handgun to another state (locked as per FOPA) for the purpose of just carrying in that state?"

[maintenanceguy 510]

1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

Brainstorming is good!  In that vain, let's ask one of the most asked questions on the forum:

"Will the NJSP web site be updated with what a citizen CAN DO with firearms and replace the mumbo-jumbo of conflicting info, including the co-mingling of 2C Statute intrastate laws & interstate FOPA guidelines now written as "going through New Jersey"?  It can be somewhat simplified as thus:  "How to transport firearms WITHIN NJ as a NJ resident"  & "How to transport firearms INTO NJ from another state while moving to or attending a sanctioned match in NJ"  

Man oh man would THAT help!  Cause right now, all the Newbies read that EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL and they never read the EXEMPTIONS correctly!

The NJSP website has been updated.  The new version separates transport "into" NJ and transport "through" NJ but still gets a few things wrong. 

The most disturbing is that it says that a firearm transported under NJ law can not be accessible from the passenger compartment.  I don't believe this is in the law.  The firearm must be in a securely fastened <package> but I don't think there is anything in the law that says it can't be accessible.  Not a big deal that the NJSP recommends this practice. 

The problem is that the guidance document ends with instructions to law enforcement on how to conduct the investigation and possible arrest.   If I understand correctly, the NJSP is advising officers to make an arrest for something that is not illegal.  I'd like to know if I am correct in my interpretation that this document is used by NJSP and other police departments as guidance to officers on whether an arrest is appropriate.

[BobA 1,235]

1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

"Will the NJSP web site be updated with what a citizen CAN DO with firearms and replace the mumbo-jumbo of conflicting info, including the co-mingling of 2C Statute intrastate laws & interstate FOPA guidelines now written as "going through New Jersey"?  It can be somewhat simplified as thus:  "How to transport firearms WITHIN NJ as a NJ resident"  & "How to transport firearms INTO NJ from another state while moving to or attending a sanctioned match in NJ"  

When you get your voting ballot and also in the voting both the is a re-write of what you're voting on done in simpler terms that doesn't take a lawyer to decipher.  This method would be handy here.   

9 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said:

The NJSP website has been updated.  The new version separates transport "into" NJ and transport "through" NJ but still gets a few things wrong. 

The most disturbing is that it says that a firearm transported under NJ law can not be accessible from the passenger compartment.  I don't believe this is in the law.  The firearm must be in a securely fastened <package> but I don't think there is anything in the law that says it can't be accessible.  Not a big deal that the NJSP recommends this practice. 

The problem is that the guidance document ends with instructions to law enforcement on how to conduct the investigation and possible arrest.   If I understand correctly, the NJSP is advising officers to make an arrest for something that is not illegal.  I'd like to know if I am correct in my interpretation that this document is used by NJSP and other police departments as guidance to officers on whether an arrest is appropriate.

And how does all this apply to vehicles without a trunk.  Motorcycles, pick-ups, minivans, etc. 

[amv357 0]

"Can you verify that having previously been denied a NJ handgun carry permit due to lack of justifiable need, in of itself, is not a factor that would prevent approval of future NJ FID card or Pistol Purchase Permit applications?"

I have several customers who have been denied CCW and have purchased king guns and hand guns after the denials.



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[bhunted 887]

16 hours ago, High Exposure said:

I have never met the man face to face. He is DSG Bloom when acting professionally and Mr. Bloom otherwise - until he gives me permission to call him anything else.

I was raised to say Mr, Mrs, Miss, and Ms and to use titles and honorifics as necessary when addressing strangers or if I am talking about a friend/acquaintance that would be a stranger to the person I am talking to.

DSG Bloom is the only person to give permission to call him Brett. Not me.

Not meant to be on a high horse, just the way I was raised.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled topic.

 

I was raised the same way. That is fine if you are a young'in.... As an adult, in a International Corporate world which I evolved from, we have all learned that a first name basis provides a better relationship.... We are adults now. There are many ways to return respect.

I've never met any professional that said I should call him Officer Joe Bolton till he said, 'OK, just call me Joe'...
Maybe it's the age thing. Dunno... But you could probably be my son...

I have never officially met you, (cause you won't buy the coffee to go with the donuts I bring...lol),
and only met face to face several  people here.

So should I start calling you Mr. Tank or by your rank? Or beings I forget your rank, Ranger Rick? Please specify. I do not want to offend.

BTW, call me anything you want except 'late for dinner'.... My dad taught me that. My German grandparents taught me the rest very well. I have a very good mannerly way in life.....

So donuts sir? Bring the damn coffee!

 

[siderman 1,137]

maybe this yr after the conference we can get a compilation of the Q&A's posted here on the forum. I think I inquired about that last yr but dont think it happened. If I'm wrong would love for it to be pointed out. Congrats on the continuing success of it.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

11 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

The NJSP website has been updated.  The new version separates transport "into" NJ and transport "through" NJ but still gets a few things wrong. 

The most disturbing is that it says that a firearm transported under NJ law can not be accessible from the passenger compartment.  I don't believe this is in the law.  The firearm must be in a securely fastened <package> but I don't think there is anything in the law that says it can't be accessible.  Not a big deal that the NJSP recommends this practice. 

The problem is that the guidance document ends with instructions to law enforcement on how to conduct the investigation and possible arrest.   If I understand correctly, the NJSP is advising officers to make an arrest for something that is not illegal.  I'd like to know if I am correct in my interpretation that this document is used by NJSP and other police departments as guidance to officers on whether an arrest is appropriate.

Only "HAND GUNS need to be in a securely tied package OR LOCKED IN THE TRUNK OF AN AUTOMOBILE".  Long guns can be unloaded laying in the car.  In fact Nappen lectures that you can wave an unloaded shotgun out your driver's window if you have an NJFPID.  Of course he also says "it's NOT A GOOD IDEA"!  So there's the LAW and then there's "Common Sense"...

Let's just have them REWRITE THE WHOLE DAMN THING & not get it wrong THIS TIME    And use just the ACTUAL LAW instead of "feelins' of the AG"!***  

***Wait, what?  You mean to say we also have to follow the feelins' of an appointed official that was never elected?  OH MY!  I'm so confused!  Maybe I ought to bury that Gamo brand "Whisperer" pellet rifle "suppressed evil death weapon" someone gave my kid for his birthday?  After-all, the Lt. in NJSP FAU gave his OPINION that it was a felony to possess one in NJ!  ---sarcasm OFF!

What you write here is very troubling, and probably why the number of Newbies here on the forum asking about placement of firearms in their SUV's has skyrocketed?  

[John Willett 70]

3 hours ago, siderman said:

maybe this yr after the conference we can get a compilation of the Q&A's posted here on the forum. I think I inquired about that last yr but dont think it happened. If I'm wrong would love for it to be pointed out. Congrats on the continuing success of it.

Thanks, we're certainly doing our best!

If you mean the questions asked and answers given being collected and distributed somehow, you are correct.  Frankly, immediately after the conference I was busy trying to wrap up the business end of it and getting video edited and published that I probably wouldn't have even tried to synthesize our NJSP representative's answers in a write up.  Maybe that is something we can try to do this year as part of our post conference content on NJSafeCon.net  It's a solid idea.

[djg0770 481]

Is it legal for an entity (town, city, etc) to require that firearms applications (fpid and handgun permit applications) be notarized?

If it is not legal, to whom should one go in order to rectify this situation?

 

Is it legal for an entity to delay an application beyond thirty days?

Is it possible that an application can be processed within 30 days using the current NJ required background check systems?

 

[PK90 3,570]

Two Part Substantially Identical Question:
1. Is the sale and possession of a Century RAS47 or Saiga rifle legal in NJ?  (regarding "Avtomat Kalashnikov type")
2. If so, why isn't an Inland Mfg or Auto Ordnance US Carbine rifle legal?  (regarding "M1 carbine type")

[BobA 1,235]

6 hours ago, bhunted said:

I was raised the same way. That is fine if you are a young'in.... As an adult, in a International Corporate world which I evolved from, we have all learned that a first name basis provides a better relationship.... We are adults now. There are many ways to return respect.

I've never met any professional that said I should call him Officer Joe Bolton till he said, 'OK, just call me Joe'...
Maybe it's the age thing. Dunno... But you could probably be my son...

I have never officially met you, (cause you won't buy the coffee to go with the donuts I bring...lol),
and only met face to face several  people here.

So should I start calling you Mr. Tank or by your rank? Or beings I forget your rank, Ranger Rick? Please specify. I do not want to offend.

BTW, call me anything you want except 'late for dinner'.... My dad taught me that. My German grandparents taught me the rest very well. I have a very good mannerly way in life.....

So donuts sir? Bring the damn coffee!

 

Exactly how many people on here do you think know who Officer Joe Bolton was?

[fatty 241]

20 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Two Part Substantially Identical Question:
1. Is the sale and possession of a Century RAS47 or Saiga rifle legal in NJ?  (regarding "Avtomat Kalashnikov type")
2. If so, why isn't an Inland Mfg or Auto Ordnance US Carbine rifle legal?  (regarding "M1 carbine type")

was always curious how the Norinco Mak90 was specifically deemed legal here as not substantially identical to the "AK" type rifle, but M1 clones got different treatment.

its all so stupid

[bhunted 887]

16 hours ago, BobA said:

Exactly how many people on here do you think know who Officer Joe Bolton was?

 Lmao!

That's my point!!!! [emoji23]

Click for the audio. Soundtrack even works as a message to today's boys in blue.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[NJGF 375]

7 hours ago, djg0770 said:

Is it legal for an entity (town, city, etc) to require that firearms applications (fpid and handgun permit applications) be notarized?

If it is not legal, to whom should one go in order to rectify this situation?

 

Is it legal for an entity to delay an application beyond thirty days?

Is it possible that an application can be processed within 30 days using the current NJ required background check systems?

 

Anyone can file a criminal complaint with your county prosecutors office against the police chief. It is not going to make you popular but the county prosecutor has to open an investigation. The state AG guidelines are outlined here: http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/internalaffairs2000v1_2.pdf

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:57 AM, High Exposure said:

We finally have a real live person in DSG Bloom that is open to our requests and believes in sharing info with the public. He is a big believer in the 2A. He actually puts stuff in writing via Email! I know for a fact that he has to regularly measure what he wants to say against what he's allowed to say. He knows the system is jacked. Unfortunately he is in no position to fix it directly and he is not going to bad mouth his agency.

Having someone like DSG Bloom available to us has been a long time coming. Let's not put him in a bad spot by making him speculate on things he can't control and shouldn't guess about. Making him choose between personally held beliefs and official policy:State law at an event like this is uncomfortable at best, self defeating and career ending at worst.

 

 

 

 

I would agree with this 100%

 

All the dealings I've had with him were not only professional but as helpful as I could ever want. If he can give you an answer he will, if he can't he'll let you know why he can't. The entire crew in the FIU right now is a good bunch of guys, lets hope nothing changes in that regard when things turn over after Christie leaves.

 

 

 

[Carl Leisinger 0]

Does anyone have Brett Blooms current address or C#. If so please email me <[email protected]>

Carl Leisinger NJSP Ret.

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

52 minutes ago, Carl Leisinger said:

Does anyone have Brett Blooms current address or C#. If so please email me <[email protected]>

Carl Leisinger NJSP Ret.

This is an ‘odd’ post, to say the least..

[JohnnyB 4,323]

4 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

This is an ‘odd’ post, to say the least..

cocmast.net ?

[BigGuns 262]

5 hours ago, Displaced Texan said:

This is an ‘odd’ post, to say the least..

Joined in 2017 and has one post. this one.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Most likely long time lurker - came upon this thread in a search.  It's from within the state - should be ok.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[JohnnyB 4,323]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:22 PM, Displaced Texan said:

Does anyone have Brett Blooms current address or C#. If so please email me <[email protected]>

Yes, I am sure he meant Comcast.net.