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124gr9mm

Travel to range with a friend

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Probably over-thinking, but is there any concern carpooling to the range with someone, or do we have to travel in separate cars?

My neighbor and I both have our own guns, ammo, permits, etc, so is there anything wrong with us throwing everything on one vehicle and carpooling?

I've gone to the range with friends before, but it was always with just my gun and ammo in my car.

Thanks.

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If you and your neighbor live in close proximity, you should be fine. I.e one of you would pick up the other on the way to the range. In contrast, if you are further apart,  I would not risk it being deemed an unreasonable deviation. Refer to the Attorney General's guidance published last year. (Sorry, I do not have the link handy.)

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Google "NJAG guidelines on reasonable deviation".  Picking up and discharging passengers is specifically listed as a reasonable deviation (as are others).  It also covers things like stopping to eat, get gas, use the bathroom, and other things too many think they can be arrested for in NJ.  Read the entire memo.  It also instructs police to not make an arrest or sign a complaint without consulting a prosecutor if they are trying to make a case on reasonable deviation.

The memo would cover a situation where you live in Union Co, go pick up your friend in Sussex Co, shoot a match in Ocean County, bring your friend home and then go home yourself.  Of course in this example you might, as Ricky Ricardo used to say, have some "splaining" to do.

I've said before and I'll say it again.  In 50 years of shooting (most in NJ) I have heard of anyone being charged with illegal possession going or coming from a range.  Shooters in NJ have performed all the reasonable deviations for years with no issues.

 

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17 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Thanks both.

The neighbor in question is about 5 doors away so I don't think I have to worry.

Thanks!

5 doors??? All this mental contortion for 5 doors over? Unless you live in the sticks and five doors away is like 10 miles apart, or you live in busybody heaven, why is this even given a second thought?

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27 minutes ago, WP22 said:

5 doors??? All this mental contortion for 5 doors over? Unless you live in the sticks and five doors away is like 10 miles apart, or you live in busybody heaven, why is this even given a second thought?

Why? Because a morally corrupt prosecutor and judge would gladly send you to state prison for the slightest transgression.  Read "Under the Blue Tent Sky" by Brian Aitken.

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I wonder how backpacking a firearm (with proper separation of ammo and everything) would be handled for a 100 yard walk. My best friend lives a little less than 100 yards from a range.

 

Btw, I'm not about to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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1 minute ago, Lostboy said:

I wonder how backpacking a firearm (with proper separation of ammo and everything) would be handled for a 100 yard walk. My best friend lives a little less than 100 yards from a range.

 

Btw, I'm not about to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Got multiple compartments in the backpack?

Got a latchable firearm case?  Put the gun in that, and the ammo in the bag itself.  It's separated.

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18 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I wonder how backpacking a firearm (with proper separation of ammo and everything) would be handled for a 100 yard walk. My best friend lives a little less than 100 yards from a range.

 

Btw, I'm not about to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

How would this be different from when I walked out of a FFL in Bayonne busy street, walked right infront of police car, to my car parked about 5 streets away. All of this with ammo in a plastic bag and firearm in the plastic box it came with. Local cops would know this is FFL location and I didnt get stopped, molested or arrested. 

Or when drove on my motorcycle to range with backpack on and a Ruger bag hanging on the side of the motorcycle with "Ruger" logo clearly visible and any reasonable Cop could infer that I am transporting firearms. 

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Years ago HS kids used to bring their .22's on the train/bus TO SCHOOL!  And shoot them in the school basement for practice cause the school had a RIFLE TEAM!  Then they'd bring them home on the train/bus too!  Shotguns in the Principal's office was a common sight during hunting season.  My how far we've come as a society!  Now we're asking if it's okay to drive 5 doors down the same street to pick-up a fellow shooter to do a LEGAL activity.  Forgive me, all of you, while I wrap my head around THAT!!!

This makes what I wrote in the other thread (NJSAFE questions for NJSP) even more necessary (a RE-WRITE of the possession & transportation gun laws in plain fricken English, using the EXEMPTIONS with what you CAN DO w/ firearms)!

 

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59 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I wonder how backpacking a firearm (with proper separation of ammo and everything) would be handled for a 100 yard walk. My best friend lives a little less than 100 yards from a range.

 

Btw, I'm not about to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I would walk to the range without a second thought. 

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On 8/22/2017 at 1:35 PM, 124gr9mm said:

Probably over-thinking, but is there any concern carpooling to the range with someone, or do we have to travel in separate cars?

My neighbor and I both have our own guns, ammo, permits, etc, so is there anything wrong with us throwing everything on one vehicle and carpooling?

I've gone to the range with friends before, but it was always with just my gun and ammo in my car.

Thanks.

Yes you are overthinking this. Load your car , get your friend, put his stuff in your car and go shooting. Do the opposite on your way home. Am I the only one the cops aren't following around 24/7 to see if I break any gun laws? Or maybe I'm the only one not driving around waving them out he window of my car?

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3 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Why? Because a morally corrupt prosecutor and judge would gladly send you to state prison for the slightest transgression.  Read "Under the Blue Tent Sky" by Brian Aitken.

Not Brian Aiken again!  I'll start by saying what he got arrested for shouldn't be illegal.   He is only a poster boy for stupidity IMO starting with saying something to his mother that worried her so much she called the police.  If he hadn't done that most likely nothing would have happened to him.

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50 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Not Brian Aiken again!  I'll start by saying what he got arrested for shouldn't be illegal.   He is only a poster boy for stupidity IMO starting with saying something to his mother that worried her so much she called the police.  If he hadn't done that most likely nothing would have happened to him.

Yeah, I decided to ignore the comment, because not the Brian fooking Aiken thing again. Just like the McDonalds hot coffee lady, it never fails to appear. 

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17 hours ago, WP22 said:

Yeah, I decided to ignore the comment, because not the Brian fooking Aiken thing again. Just like the McDonalds hot coffee lady, it never fails to appear. 

To clarify, I mentioned Aiken with regards to the unjust manner in which the judicial system treated him in the court room(e.g. Rules of evidence, etc). The details of which are expressed in his book.

No need to be critical of one another.

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We have been over this Aiken stuff a million times. While I agree that he was stupid in saying something to his mother (and bunch of other things), the fact that he was prosecuted, instructions from judge etc,  displays all that is wrong & dangerous with our legal system.  No wonder people are shit scared to even walk 100 yards with their legal firearms.  The same thing could happen to any of us. You walk out the door to range to blow some steam, thats in 100 yards and a disgruntled / upset gf/bf/spouse calls up cops and says something like "(s)he just walked out the door with GUNZ and is on the sidewalk".  Best case, you will be alive with bit of bruising. 

If we ever get to a point of  "perfect poster boy" for 2A,  where someone gets arrested for following law in every-which-way, you know its too late. Until then, every case we see will fall into a broad spectrum of gray. We will have to decide if we support the ones in later half of gray, who displayed utter stupidity and even a hint of "illegal" activity (say, someone in possession of standard capacity).

Wolf just caught and about to feast on a sheep. From the escaped group, one sheep said to the other, in relief, "That sheep had it coming, what was she thinking grazing in open with limp leg". 

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3 hours ago, jackandjill said:

We have been over this Aiken stuff a million times. While I agree that he was stupid in saying something to his mother (and bunch of other things), the fact that he was prosecuted, instructions from judge etc,  displays all that is wrong & dangerous with our legal system.  No wonder people are shit scared to even walk 100 yards with their legal firearms.  The same thing could happen to any of us. You walk out the door to range to blow some steam, thats in 100 yards and a disgruntled / upset gf/bf/spouse calls up cops and says something like "(s)he just walked out the door with GUNZ and is on the sidewalk".  Best case, you will be alive with bit of bruising. 

If we ever get to a point of  "perfect poster boy" for 2A,  where someone gets arrested for following law in every-which-way, you know its too late. Until then, every case we see will fall into a broad spectrum of gray. We will have to decide if we support the ones in later half of gray, who displayed utter stupidity and even a hint of "illegal" activity (say, someone in possession of standard capacity).

Wolf just caught and about to feast on a sheep. From the escaped group, one sheep said to the other, in relief, "That sheep had it coming, what was she thinking grazing in open with limp leg". 

Going to the range to "blow off steam" doesn't sound like a responsible activity. Engaging in any activity with an element of danger doesn't sound smart to me.

I agree that the judge was wrong in instructing the jury.  There were several stupid things Aitken did and inconsistencies in his story.  His book is only his version of what happened.

Aitken has turned his "fame" into a money maker for himself.  People contributed $40,000 to get his book published and fight his custody battle.

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1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

Going to the range to "blow off steam" doesn't sound like a responsible activity. Engaging in any activity with an element of danger doesn't sound smart to me.

I agree that the judge was wrong in instructing the jury.  There were several stupid things Aitken did and inconsistencies in his story.  His book is only his version of what happened.

Aitken has turned his "fame" into a money maker for himself.  People contributed $40,000 to get his book published and fight his custody battle.

I stand corrected. Going to range to refocus on my chakras and realize infinite beauty of cosmic energy and wonder in amazement of all things love, forgiveness and inclusive. 

In all seriousness, I get what you are saying and I am not disagreeing with certain aspects of his case. However, I do not agree with notion of waiting for perfect poster boy. Certain aspect of fighting for rights involves defending scum and he is far from being scum. 

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1 hour ago, jackandjill said:

I stand corrected. Going to range to refocus on my chakras and realize infinite beauty of cosmic energy and wonder in amazement of all things love, forgiveness and inclusive. 

In all seriousness, I get what you are saying and I am not disagreeing with certain aspects of his case. However, I do not agree with notion of waiting for perfect poster boy. Certain aspect of fighting for rights involves defending scum and he is far from being scum. 

I can't agree with defending scum but I will agree he's not scum.

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Brian is indeed far from "scum"  I've read his book & met Brian in person.  Yes he made some bad decisions in his life, starting with knocking-up a stripper.  That aside, I tend to agree with JackandJill on his accurate assessment of searching for a "perfect poster boy for 2A" and only being able to locate a failed man, a victim of both his own shortsightedness & the luck of the draw.  JackandJill put it succinctly:  " Until then, every case we see will fall into a broad spectrum of gray. We will have to decide if we support the ones in later half of gray, who displayed utter stupidity and even a hint of "illegal" activity (say, someone in possession of standard capacity)".  And I'll add to that quote with:  Do we always have to look for a way to throw one of our own UNDER THE BUS?

The Judge who miss-instructed (improperly "charged") the jury was DISBARRED over it.  Brian's case is a great example of a "Perfect Storm" of circumstances if there ever was one.  His case also brought to light what I term as "Millennial house flopping".  When you're a 20-something in the process of moving and sorta living out of your vehicle in-between flopping on friends' couches all over creation until you establish a more permanent residency, especially if only working part-time w/o any benefits.  The 2C statutes on all of this were written in a time when you moved in a SINGLE day with a moving company, even if it was just a few towns away.  Back when women stayed home with the kids & "the men" went to work.  21st century style "moving" with making several trips back & forth between where you're leaving & where you'll wind-up wasn't a speck on the radar screen :) .  And renting a locker or storage facility on a very limited budget, with months worth of deposits paid via a credit card don't come easy to a guy stuck leaning on friends' to loan couches to him...

Brian's case also brought to light the fact that the moving "EXEMPTION" was never written into the statutes regarding the transportation and/or possession of hollow point bullets when moving, PERIOD.  This in & of itself is groundbreaking, and shows the nonsense we as gun owners must endure by first driving hollow points to an EXEMPT location such as a private gun club or commercial range in-between residences in order to put the EXEMPTION in force!  Mind you either facility could be closed tight as a drum, but having the meta data on your phone camera with a picture of your car parked momentarily at said range with HP ammo in said photo would exonerate yer ass in a court of law.  

I'll personally never grow tired of relaying Brian's story.  The "Perfect Storm" that made him do HARD TIME.  The "Cautionary Tale" that never should have been inflicted upon him OR US............ 

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4 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

Brian is indeed far from "scum"  I've read his book & met Brian in person.  Yes he made some bad decisions in his life, starting with knocking-up a stripper.  That aside, I tend to agree with JackandJill on his accurate assessment of searching for a "perfect poster boy for 2A" and only being able to locate a failed man, a victim of both his own shortsightedness & the luck of the draw.  JackandJill put it succinctly:  " Until then, every case we see will fall into a broad spectrum of gray. We will have to decide if we support the ones in later half of gray, who displayed utter stupidity and even a hint of "illegal" activity (say, someone in possession of standard capacity)".  And I'll add to that quote with:  Do we always have to look for a way to throw one of our own UNDER THE BUS?

The Judge who miss-instructed (improperly "charged") the jury was DISBARRED over it.  Brian's case is a great example of a "Perfect Storm" of circumstances if there ever was one.  His case also brought to light what I term as "Millennial house flopping".  When you're a 20-something in the process of moving and sorta living out of your vehicle in-between flopping on friends' couches all over creation until you establish a more permanent residency, especially if only working part-time w/o any benefits.  The 2C statutes on all of this were written in a time when you moved in a SINGLE day with a moving company, even if it was just a few towns away.  Back when women stayed home with the kids & "the men" went to work.  21st century style "moving" with making several trips back & forth between where you're leaving & where you'll wind-up wasn't a speck on the radar screen :) .  And renting a locker or storage facility on a very limited budget, with months worth of deposits paid via a credit card don't come easy to a guy stuck leaning on friends' to loan couches to him...

Brian's case also brought to light the fact that the moving "EXEMPTION" was never written into the statutes regarding the transportation and/or possession of hollow point bullets when moving, PERIOD.  This in & of itself is groundbreaking, and shows the nonsense we as gun owners must endure by first driving hollow points to an EXEMPT location such as a private gun club or commercial range in-between residences in order to put the EXEMPTION in force!  Mind you either facility could be closed tight as a drum, but having the meta data on your phone camera with a picture of your car parked momentarily at said range with HP ammo in said photo would exonerate yer ass in a court of law.  

I'll personally never grow tired of relaying Brian's story.  The "Perfect Storm" that made him do HARD TIME.  The "Cautionary Tale" that never should have been inflicted upon him OR US............ 

No one in this thread have been referring to Aitken as "scum".  Stupid yes but not scum.  I never referred to him as scum. Let's get that out of the way first.

Reading his book and meeting him means you got his side of the story.  I only have read news accounts of him and some of his whining.

I find it interesting that you say he say only stepped over from white into the upper half of the grey scale.  Most of Aitken's supporters will say to hang a LEO who puts a toe into the grey area. The same people who demand police use dash cams and body recorders wonder why cops don't "give someone a break". 

"Millenial" sure fits Aitken from what I've seen.  He does stupid things and wonders why he is in trobule.  It's all someone else's fault not mine.  He was offered a plea but refused because he felt he was still right.  I don't know what his attorney actually advised him to do regarding the plea.  Only he and the attorney know for sure.

I will hazard a guess that there are hundreds if not thousands of cases of illegal transportation of hollow points every day.  Why don't you see any arrests?  These people don't do anything stupid that's why.  Aitken shouldn't be held to the same standard?

Please don't spread any fake news. There is enough of that in the MSM.  Morley, the judge in Aitken's case was not DISBARRED. He wasn't reappointed. The only people I see saying this was because of Aitken's case are his supporters. Might it have influenced the judge's reappointment? Maybe. Some of the reasons I saw in relation to Christie not reappointing him involved a beastiality case and a case of underage sex.

Morley dismissed 4 counts of animal cruelty as he didn't think what the defendant did fit the statutes at that time.  The pervert still faced trial for more than 40 other counts.  Many here complain about prosecutors overcharging.

The other case involved a 45 yr old teacher's aide having sex with a 16 year old student.  Morley had commented he didn't see the 45 yr old woman as a sexual predator.  He still gave her 5 years.

Let's discuss what Morley actually did. According to what I've read he refused to allow evidence Aitken was moving and instruct the jury regarding the moving exemption.  That was inappropriate if that was Aitken's defense.  I'm still not aware what Aitken's evidence was in this matter.

That's how Aitken beat the possession charge on his appeal.  Not that he actually had proof he was moving.  He beat the magazine charge because they weren't tested for function not because he didn't have them.

BTW,  Morley is on the faculty of Rutgers now.  No way DISBARRED.

With all that said I do think what Aitken did shouldn't be illegal anywhere.  But it is in NJ.

There are cases that warrant support IMO.  Aitken's was not one of them.

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10 hours ago, GRIZ said:

No one in this thread have been referring to Aitken as "scum".  Stupid yes but not scum.  I never referred to him as scum. Let's get that out of the way first.

Reading his book and meeting him means you got his side of the story.  I only have read news accounts of him and some of his whining.

I find it interesting that you say he say only stepped over from white into the upper half of the grey scale.  Most of Aitken's supporters will say to hang a LEO who puts a toe into the grey area. The same people who demand police use dash cams and body recorders wonder why cops don't "give someone a break". 

"Millenial" sure fits Aitken from what I've seen.  He does stupid things and wonders why he is in trobule.  It's all someone else's fault not mine.  He was offered a plea but refused because he felt he was still right.  I don't know what his attorney actually advised him to do regarding the plea.  Only he and the attorney know for sure.

I will hazard a guess that there are hundreds if not thousands of cases of illegal transportation of hollow points every day.  Why don't you see any arrests?  These people don't do anything stupid that's why.  Aitken shouldn't be held to the same standard?

Please don't spread any fake news. There is enough of that in the MSM.  Morley, the judge in Aitken's case was not DISBARRED. He wasn't reappointed. The only people I see saying this was because of Aitken's case are his supporters. Might it have influenced the judge's reappointment? Maybe. Some of the reasons I saw in relation to Christie not reappointing him involved a beastiality case and a case of underage sex.

Morley dismissed 4 counts of animal cruelty as he didn't think what the defendant did fit the statutes at that time.  The pervert still faced trial for more than 40 other counts.  Many here complain about prosecutors overcharging.

The other case involved a 45 yr old teacher's aide having sex with a 16 year old student.  Morley had commented he didn't see the 45 yr old woman as a sexual predator.  He still gave her 5 years.

Let's discuss what Morley actually did. According to what I've read he refused to allow evidence Aitken was moving and instruct the jury regarding the moving exemption.  That was inappropriate if that was Aitken's defense.  I'm still not aware what Aitken's evidence was in this matter.

That's how Aitken beat the possession charge on his appeal.  Not that he actually had proof he was moving.  He beat the magazine charge because they weren't tested for function not because he didn't have them.

BTW,  Morley is on the faculty of Rutgers now.  No way DISBARRED.

With all that said I do think what Aitken did shouldn't be illegal anywhere.  But it is in NJ.

There are cases that warrant support IMO.  Aitken's was not one of them.

Where to start?

Let's start by saying that I never said anyone here called him scum.  If I was misinterpreted, then please accept my apology.

I read the news accounts, and we agree he was stupid in more ways than one.

Please don't lump me in with the "Dashcam Crowd", as I'm very pro-police & long for the "old days" myself when a beat Cop could walk his beat & swing a Billie Club on a lanyard like an Artist using a paint brush---a real talent!  Good Police work means using discretion, and the current situation of arresting grade schoolers for making idle threats & chewing pop tarts into hand guns is sad at best. 

Brian didn't take the plea because a felony conviction meant he'd never get permission to visit his son.  Let that sink in.  The guy was trying to do right by his son & not merely walk-away.

You & I agree on the amount of daily uncharged transportations of HP rounds outside of the technical EXEMPTIONS.  We've all done it at some point.  And yes most of us don't do other stupid stuff (like tell our mother we're suicidal) to draw attention to ourselves so life goes on w/o any Po-Po interaction. 

As to the Judge's disbarment, I only repeated what I read from what I thought was a trusted news source (NJ.com).  I do remember that there was a stink about it in specific, and the same Judge had other "baggage" as you mentioned.  So if my source is wrong, thanks for the correction!  Obama & Michelle were both disbarred, but that didn't stop them from visiting 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. for 8 YEARS :) 

We agree on how Morely got himself into trouble regarding the moving EXEMPTION.  Aitken's defense was outlined in the book he wrote & presented by Lou Nappen, Evan's brother.  I loaned my copy to someone, so I can't quote from it.  Nappen thought he had it in the bag, and the Jury kept asking for transcripts of EXEMPTIONS, and the Judge decided at some point to instruct the Jury to "just get on with it"...and in so doing denied the Jury the evidence they needed for an acquittal....  which then led to his release after every paper in the state carried the story.  The proof Aitken had he was moving came from testimony by folks that loaned him their couch.  Eyewitness testimony that he was living out of his car & flopping on couches.  As for the magazine charge, yep he had it/them, and that's where things get "gray" instead of "Lilly-white".  You can bet that Nappen's cross is in the history books on that one & every County Prosecutor for all 21 Counties in NJ were notified to have their Detectives FUNCTION-FIRE standard capacity mags before going to trial :) .  

We agree what Aitken did shouldn't be illegal.  We AGREE.  And you're right, this is NJ, which is why the Newbies on this forum are "so shit-scared of their own shadows"!

I don't ever hope for an attempted prosecution of a  complete "Lilly-White" NJ gun law victim, cause by then we as a society will be too far gone.  Gang Bangers sellin' guns on the street every day that KILL the innocent do less time than a guy living out of his car who's stupid enough & upset enough to tell his mom his mental state AND have standard capacity mags & EVIL hollow points floating-around in his LOCKED trunk harming NO ONE.  

I'm not a "supporter" & never gave him a dime.  I just report the facts as I see 'em.  If I'd have been on that Jury, the other 11 members would have gotten a legal lesson in Jury Nullification :) 

 

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