Is this a pistol grip by NJ standards?

[MartyZ 692]

Ok, let me start by saying that I don't want this to turn into an "I will not comply" argument. If for example I wanted to put a flash hider or any non-pinned muzzle device on my AR, and wanted to stay NJ compliant, would this be considered a pistol grip?

https://www.strikeindustries.com/shop/index.php/products/rifle-accessories/strike-industires-simple-featureless-grip.html

[Krdshrk 3,877]

NJ Definition of a Pistol grip on a Semi Auto rifle is:

a pistol grip that

protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

IMO it still protrudes beneath the action so I wouldn't bother trying to rules lawyer it.  

[bhunted 887]

NJ Definition of a Pistol grip on a Semi Auto rifle is:

a pistol grip that
protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

IMO it still protrudes beneath the action so I wouldn't bother trying to rules lawyer it.  


I don't think so. You cannot put a full hand grip around it which I think is what they are trying to accomplish. Imho of course.


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[GRIZ 3,369]

That looks like it would be uncomfortable to shoot with after a while.

[MartyZ 692]

17 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

That looks like it would be uncomfortable to shoot with after a while.

Yes it would offc hand, but for a precision rifle...

[bhunted 887]

That looks like it would be uncomfortable to shoot with after a while.

Ugly as sin too. But I guess for the commie states. Do whatchya gotta do.

OP: Question is why are you considering it? Going to sub another evil feature?


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[MartyZ 692]

1 hour ago, bhunted said:

Ugly as sin too. But I guess for the commie states. Do whatchya gotta do.

OP: Question is why are you considering it? Going to sub another evil feature?


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Ugly, without a doubt. I am thinking of getting a flash hider for my .308 build. Or even an unpinned MB. Hopefully when I move to PA in 3 years, just 5 min to swap it out, and only $10 lost.

[ChrisJM981 924]

The pistol grip would need to be able to be held with one hand to meet the requirements of a pistol grip. I'd say it's good to go, but I use common sense when I interpret, and this is NJ, so who knows.  

[JohnnyB 4,320]

My only problem with is it's not a part of the buttstock so it is a grip that protrudes regardless of the hand being able to completely encircle it. You may very well be GTG but just because the manufacturer says so don't make it true in the PRNJ.

Like lots of people here have said, If you are getting messed with for the legality of this stupid grip, You have other, bigger problems!

Quote the seller........ NOTE: This grip is made to conform to the DOJ criteria but has not been approved.  If grip is used in conjunction with other features on the CA DOJ banned features list, the host system no longer constitutes a “featureless” build.  Please consult your local laws and regulations to ensure compliance

Edited August 31, 2017 by JohnnyB
Additional info

[MartyZ 692]

That's because in CA your not allowed any evil features. At least here in PRNJ we are allowed 1, for now

[ChrisJM981 924]

"Pistol grip" means a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes

conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the firearm to be held and fired

with one hand.

Some of you guys are worse than CNN with editing information. When "and" is present it must meet both requirements to be a pistol grip. Not to mention there is a block of plastic preventing it from being "well defined".

[Krdshrk 3,877]

32 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

"Pistol grip" means a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes

conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the firearm to be held and fired

with one hand.

Some of you guys are worse than CNN with editing information. When "and" is present it must meet both requirements to be a pistol grip. Not to mention there is a block of plastic preventing it from being "well defined".

You're quoting the definition of the Pistol Grip in terms of SHOTGUNS.  It clearly states "For purposes of this paragraph"

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

3. A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a folding stock or a pistol grip;

or a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds. For purposes of this paragraph,
"semi-automatic" means a firearm which fires a single projectile for each pull of the trigger and is self-reloading or
automatically chambers a round, cartridge or bullet. For purposes of this paragraph "pistol grip" means a well defined
handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which
permits the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand;

 

Meanwhile the state guide on Assault Firearms:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/3assltf.pdf

semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the

following:
a folding or telescoping stock;
2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
3. a bayonet mount;
a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
5. a grenade launcher;

 

Who's the one like CNN Editing information?

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 minute ago, Krdshrk said:

You're quoting the definition of the Pistol Grip in terms of SHOTGUNS.  It clearly states "For purposes of this paragraph"

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

 

 

 

Meanwhile the state guide on Assault Firearms:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/3assltf.pdf

 

 

 

Who's the one like CNN Editing information?

Lmao!!! You're giving me way too much credit if you think I did that on purpose.  

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Just now, ChrisJM981 said:

Lmao!!! You're giving me way too much credit if you think I did that on purpose.  

Trust me - I was going to quote that, then I re-read it... 

[ChrisJM981 924]

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'm still stuck on the why.

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 minute ago, Ray Ray said:

I'm still stuck on the why.

He wanted to put a flash suppressor on IIRC.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Just now, ChrisJM981 said:

He wanted to put a flash suppressor on IIRC.

Makes zero sense to me since nobody knows the law on it.  

Just put a standard grip on her and get a BCM Mod 0 muzzle device.  You are welcome.

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 minute ago, Ray Ray said:

Makes zero sense to me since nobody knows the law on it.  

Just put a standard grip on her and get a BCM Mod 0 muzzle device.  You are welcome.

Does he need the length of the muzzle device to make 16"?  If not have nothing on the muzzle until you move.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Just now, GRIZ said:

Does he need the length of the muzzle device to make 16"?  If not have nothing on the muzzle until you move.

Mod 0 or the shorter one, I forgot it's designation.

[MartyZ 692]

My primary purpose is not to have to pin it, flash suppressor, muzzle brake, makes no difference. Cheaper and easier to swap out a grip then a pinned muzzle device when i finally get out of this state.

[Indianajonze 379]

ya, do it. that grip is not a pistol grip. it was specifically designed to not be a pistol grip so it can be sold in california. they're popping up all over the place. lots of ppl in ny claim to be running them as well.

[Screwball 483]

ya, do it. that grip is not a pistol grip. it was specifically designed to not be a pistol grip so it can be sold in california. they're popping up all over the place. lots of ppl in ny claim to be running them as well.

People claiming to do it doesn't make it legal... considering it is a second degree crime in NJ (possession of an assault weapon), which could equate to five to ten years in prison... is that flash hider really worth it?

[MartyZ 692]

3 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 

People claiming to do it doesn't make it legal... considering it is a second degree crime in NJ (possession of an assault weapon), which could equate to five to ten years in prison... is that flash hider really worth it?

 

Nope, it's not, that's why i am trying to find out first. I might give NJSP a call later.

[GRIZ 3,369]

7 hours ago, Indianajonze said:

ya, do it. that grip is not a pistol grip. it was specifically designed to not be a pistol grip so it can be sold in california. they're popping up all over the place. lots of ppl in ny claim to be running them as well.

It may not be a pistol grip in CA or NY but for the OP it's important what NJ thinks it is.

[MartyZ 692]

Well, just called the NJSP technology group, spoke to a really nice guy. But he told me that it's a very grey area, he basically said "I might think it's ok but the next guy might not". He said I can do what I want but he would not do it himself, too much risk. Well looks like it's a no go, unless the NJSP puts out an opinion letter, which I doubt will ever happen. It was worth a try, thanks a lot everyone.

[Indianajonze 379]

On 9/1/2017 at 8:21 AM, Screwball said:

 

People claiming to do it doesn't make it legal... considering it is a second degree crime in NJ (possession of an assault weapon), which could equate to five to ten years in prison... is that flash hider really worth it?

 

nm

[Screwball 483]

can you cite a single example of anyone being specifically arrested for having a flash hider on a rifle in nj? are there checkpoints stationed at the parkway entrances determining nj rifle compliance? i would lay money 9 of 10 police in this state couldn't tell you what a flash hider is vs a muzzle brake anyway. same with that pistol / non pistol grip contraption. it's great to play by the rules, but when the rules are so arbitrary and ill-defined, it makes the game not worth playing (or at least not worth going out of your way to play)
one of the things i've noticed in this forum is that some of you are way too spineless. no wonder the nj legislature thinks they can rule you like sheep.

There isn't a charge specifically for a flash hider... as they are perfectly legal for non-semi-auto firearms. It is an "assault weapon" charge...

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/04/assault_weapon_newark_airport_arrest.html

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2015/09/sheriffs_officer_arrested_for_assault_had_illegal.html

https://patch.com/new-jersey/newarknj/newark-man-with-assault-rifle-arrested

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/galloway-police-nab-a-c-man-with-assault-rifle-heroin/article_77dd3f31-8ab2-5012-ac23-b378c82b038a.html

Anytime you see a charge for an "assault weapon," it is a semi-auto rifle that takes a detachable magazine with more that one of five features; pistol grip, bayonet lug, flash hider/threads, collapsible stock, or grenade launcher. A muzzle brake isn't a flash hider... a flash hider is a flash hider. Add in a pistol grip... assault weapon.

True, there are no weapons checkpoints. But how do all these people with out of state carry permits get arrested? A simple car stop, and either something is seen or said... and they are in jail. Go to a range, I'm sure the RO would say get out of here, being it is questionable... if he doesn't call the police to decide themselves. Gun ranges shouldn't be expected to look the other way.

In regards to officers not knowing the law... so, you'd give something questionable, and expect them not to arrest/seize the firearm? That is how case law is created, and if it is found to be a pistol grip, you go to jail and not allowed to own firearms (convicted felon).

You want to call me spineless? Ok... I'll try to remember that when I'm up in Maine and putting the paperwork through for a SBR/suppressor. But I will not suggest someone to do something questionable, possibly opening them up to being arrested and facing up to 10 years.

Act as tough as you want, but until someone in the NJSP or NJAG office say it isn't a pistol grip, or legislation is changed, you are doing a disservice to all NJ gun owners. One more "dangerous assault weapon" being pulled off the streets is not needed prior to an election. There are ways to fight NJ's laws... but people being arrested for stupid stuff like that is not the best way of going through it.

[Indianajonze 379]

nm

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

On 8/31/2017 at 7:18 PM, JohnnyB said:

My only problem with is it's not a part of the buttstock so it is a grip that protrudes regardless of the hand being able to completely encircle it. You may very well be GTG but just because the manufacturer says so don't make it true in the PRNJ.

Like lots of people here have said, If you are getting messed with for the legality of this stupid grip, You have other, bigger problems!

Quote the seller........ NOTE: This grip is made to conform to the DOJ criteria but has not been approved.  If grip is used in conjunction with other features on the CA DOJ banned features list, the host system no longer constitutes a “featureless” build.  Please consult your local laws and regulations to ensure compliance

NJ has no wording that relies on the grip to be attached or not attached to the stock.. it being attached to the stock from what I have read has NO bearing on legality..