MartyZ

Is this a pistol grip by NJ standards?

36 posts in this topic

Hi all. :) New to the forum.. and looks like I'm reviving an old thread. I just ordered one of these Strike Industries finned grips tonight (the more expensive one of the two), but am now wondering if I should cancel it before it ships.

It truly is BS that we live in a state where the penalties are so stiff for "little things" and yet no gov't bodies can get together and reach a consensus to define exactly WHAT is legal and illegal.

Making up the meaning of laws on a case-by-case basis and based upon personal opinions and then sending people to court when there is no clear definition stating what is and isn't contraband makes absolutely no sense. It's like an officer pulling you over and then when you ask them why they pulled you over they say "I'm not sure, really, but I just felt like I needed to pull you over for some reason... in the absence of any concrete facts to which to base my decision to pull you over."

I am just FLABERGASTED that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit against the State of NJ at least requiring the state to CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY LIST the true and agreed-upon legality of those items which many of us agree come under the "gray area" description.

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13 hours ago, mrmister2000 said:

Hi all. :) New to the forum.. and looks like I'm reviving an old thread. I just ordered one of these Strike Industries finned grips tonight (the more expensive one of the two), but am now wondering if I should cancel it before it ships.

It truly is BS that we live in a state where the penalties are so stiff for "little things" and yet no gov't bodies can get together and reach a consensus to define exactly WHAT is legal and illegal.

Making up the meaning of laws on a case-by-case basis and based upon personal opinions and then sending people to court when there is no clear definition stating what is and isn't contraband makes absolutely no sense. It's like an officer pulling you over and then when you ask them why they pulled you over they say "I'm not sure, really, but I just felt like I needed to pull you over for some reason... in the absence of any concrete facts to which to base my decision to pull you over."

I am just FLABERGASTED that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit against the State of NJ at least requiring the state to CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY LIST the true and agreed-upon legality of those items which many of us agree come under the "gray area" description.

I fear that they would go full retard and ban semi autos totally. That would make it easier for them.

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22 hours ago, mrmister2000 said:

Hi all. :) New to the forum.. and looks like I'm reviving an old thread. I just ordered one of these Strike Industries finned grips tonight (the more expensive one of the two), but am now wondering if I should cancel it before it ships.

It truly is BS that we live in a state where the penalties are so stiff for "little things" and yet no gov't bodies can get together and reach a consensus to define exactly WHAT is legal and illegal.

Making up the meaning of laws on a case-by-case basis and based upon personal opinions and then sending people to court when there is no clear definition stating what is and isn't contraband makes absolutely no sense. It's like an officer pulling you over and then when you ask them why they pulled you over they say "I'm not sure, really, but I just felt like I needed to pull you over for some reason... in the absence of any concrete facts to which to base my decision to pull you over."

I am just FLABERGASTED that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit against the State of NJ at least requiring the state to CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY LIST the true and agreed-upon legality of those items which many of us agree come under the "gray area" description.

The New York SAFE Act was passed in 2013 and it's still unclear what it means.

So far they have demonstrated that the 7 round limit actually means a 10 round limit. (So 7=10 in the Empire State.)

S&W sells a version of the Jersey M&P 15 (Fixed stock, no bayonet lug, no flash hider) with a Strike Industries fin grip (the cheap $9 one) in California. The California-legal fin grips (see below) seem to be sold in gun stores in some NY counties but not in others. FN sells their a version of their AR with a Herra CQR stock in California.  The Herra stocked AR is also sold by AR gun stores in NY. But not directly by FN. The big manufacturers aren't touching the NY AR market with tongs at this time.

Nobody wants to be (and pay for) the test case (s)in court.

The Thordsen Custom stocks (the ones that the first models looked like they were built by lawyers out of discarded plastic model sprue) seem to be California legal and are sold in both Cali and by AR gun stores in NY. Are they legal in NY? Who knows, the SAFE act is so badly written. But they are sold in NY.

Rifle stocks (and in particular Monte Carlo rifle stocks) "protrude conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon but that doesn't mean that they are "A pistol grip".

By definition a pistol grip would seem to mean a grip that can be held like a pistol, but I'm Old School where words had actual meanings when I was in school. So who knows.

Eventually, I think it will come down to "common use for legal purposes", so I wouldn't do anything that cost me more than $10 or is irreversible to comply until this all gets sorted out. I'd certainly recommend complying, though. Do you have a friend in Pennsylvania? 

 

 

Quote

 

In California, this is what the law say's as to what qualifies as a "Pistol Grip" on a rifle. 

"A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."

Definition-
(d) “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon” means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1:

Click here for California Department Of Justice "Bureau of Firearms" Pistol Grip Definition Diagram.

 

 
Quote

 

Although these firearms are centerfire, semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting detachable
magazines, they do not have conspicuously protruding pistol grips because none of the grips allow for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

 

 
As above, that's what the words mean in California. But this is The People's Republic of New Jersey, so who knows what words mean.
 
The grip below ("free" if you spend a couple minutes with a saw) would seem to neither be a pistol grip nor protrude prominently beneath the firearm's action, but who knows. I'm not a lawyer and I don't need to stay in Holiday Inns any more, so it's safest to ignore anything I say.
 

IMG_4996-vi.jpg

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toss a coin, test case, don't think you want to be the test case even if the police do not have pistol grip check points. Still not sure what this looks like when installed. 

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On 5/21/2018 at 8:34 PM, SJG said:

Still not sure what this looks like when installed. 

Quote

N.J.S.2C:39-1

z.     "Pistol grip" means a well-defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand.

I'm no lawyer but I did need to did stay in a Holiday Inn more than once -- and it seems to me that for something to be a pistol grip you'd need to be able to grip it like a pistol.

Or grip it at all without dropping the rifle.

Then again, who knows? The meanings of words change. I know that when I was in grade school if I had answered the "What is marriage" question with the current definition, the nuns would have called my parents and expelled me.

Below is what a Strike Industries product looks like on the rifle S&W is selling in California. (The cheap, $9 one.) I did check in on the NY board and more recent posts there report fin grips being sold by LGSs without problems.

But still no major AR manufacturers seem to be selling NY compliant models.

Screen Shot 2018-02-04 at 6.52.34 AM.png

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