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NRA & ANJRPC nowhere to be found over the course of Ramsey gun range case

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http://www.nj2as.org/ramsey_range_where_was_anjrpc_and_nra?utm_campaign=ramsey_range&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nj2as

 

NJ2AS put out an article essentially saying that while they were out busting their asses up in Ramsey, the NRA & ANJRPC were totally uninvolved.

I actually joined the NJ2AS during the Ramsey case bc they seemed to be the only ones doing much of anything in this state. Needless to say, it’s painfully disappointing to see such a lack of cooperation for gun rights here. Truly sad.

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IMHO, neither organization really gives two shits about our fundamental 2A rights here.

They make more money collecting for their (pitiable) lobbying efforts.

After all, we are the whipping boys of the 2A community here in the USA. An example of what the rest of the nation may become if you don't send them your hard earned money.

<rant off>

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1 minute ago, NJGF said:

If anyone attended NJSAFECON yesterday they would have heard a "lively" discussion with Scott Bach explaining the NRA position. It is rarely what it appears to be on the surface.

If the position is to remain underground and invisible as to never surface, except when asking for money, they are doing a bang-up job. I have heard this line before, about how they are 'working behind the scenes' with so called legislators or some such. Funniest joke was how they proclaimed some HUGE victory for CCW in NJ when Christie  changed the rules slightly regarding verified threats. Has there been some increase--ANY increase at all in CCW permits issued in NJ? Anyone? Bueller?

I am sure you will be treated to more tales and pleas for money of how ANJRPC and NRA are fighting for your rights in NJ next year, when the Hillary Clinton/Murphy Steamroller of Revenge gives you mandatory registration, ammo purchase limits, confiscation, home inspection, week long courses at your expense to even touch a gun, etc. 

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1 hour ago, NJGF said:

If anyone attended NJSAFECON yesterday they would have heard a "lively" discussion with Scott Bach explaining the NRA position. It is rarely what it appears to be on the surface.

Did he tell how "big things" are right around the corner? Been hearing that for as long as I can remember. Nothing has changed yet.

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There are two gubernatorial races this year in NJ and Virginia. The NRA has made a commitment to fight in NJ. This includes hiring staff for the NJ race. Christian Ragosta the NRA grass roots field coordinator and Darin Goens the NRA lobbyist for our area were there.

NJ is still NJ but the NRA behind the scenes has made some great progress in NJ but only with our support. Keep on sending those emails as they do have good consequences. The NRA-ILA makes sending those emails as easy as clicking a button. There are no excuses for not doing this.

All of this does take money. The NRA will not be able to turn NJ pro-gun. But Murphy will surely sign lots of anti-gun legislation.

Now is the time for everyone to get more involved.

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I'm no fan of Scott Bach, but his explanation seemed reasonable to me yesterday.  I guess we'll find out more when he talks about it on Gun For Hire radio.

NJ2AS seemed to own this issue from the get-go when they took up their cause with their attorney's actions/threats and challenges to the council/mayor.  Did they try to involve ANJRPC/NRA?  How closely was NJ2AS working with the private developer in this?  Possession in nine-tenths of the law.  If you decide to "own" the issue and initiative, I'm not sure you can really blame someone else when it comes up short.

Anyway, the link above comes across as petty and short on facts on the actual who's to blame.

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The Ramsey Range issue is a don't care for me, there can be a number of reasons that application was withdrawn. Happens all the time at zoning boards. I, like may others, have heard the same old song from NRA and ANJRPC about how they are working behind the scenes in NJ, yet things only get worse. And are likely to get much worse. Unless they can somehow engineer a Trumpian level upset of Murphy, I don't see them being able or willing to do much to prevent the Steamroller of Revenge from quashing 2A rights in NJ. I will save my money for moving out of NJ.

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32 minutes ago, matty said:

The Ramsey Range issue is a don't care for me, there can be a number of reasons that application was withdrawn. Happens all the time at zoning boards. I, like may others, have heard the same old song from NRA and ANJRPC about how they are working behind the scenes in NJ, yet things only get worse. And are likely to get much worse. Unless they can somehow engineer a Trumpian level upset of Murphy, I don't see them being able or willing to do much to prevent the Steamroller of Revenge from quashing 2A rights in NJ. I will save my money for moving out of NJ.

Why would a new range be a “don’t care issue” for you? The best way to grow support is by inviting new faces into the fray. And the first place that occurs is when someone brings a new shooter to a range. 

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10 hours ago, stuckinNJ said:

http://www.nj2as.org/ramsey_range_where_was_anjrpc_and_nra?utm_campaign=ramsey_range&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nj2as

 

NJ2AS put out an article essentially saying that while they were out busting their asses up in Ramsey, the NRA & ANJRPC were totally uninvolved.

I actually joined the NJ2AS during the Ramsey case bc they seemed to be the only ones doing much of anything in this state. Needless to say, it’s painfully disappointing to see such a lack of cooperation for gun rights here. Truly sad.

RUDE & SAD!  A Nissan Dealership wanted that space & had a bigger checkbook, so property owner sold it to Nissan.  

Keyboard Commando much?  

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True, having only been exposed to guns for less than 2 years, I haven't seen all that some of you have seen... haven't experienced all of your understandable legislative disappointments.

That said, in my career, I have worked with several non-profits both large and small and I feel I have a handle on how they're staffed (can you say "shoestring?"), what they can accomplish by themselves, and what they can't. From my perspective, if you're "waiting" for the NRA or ANJRPC to do something that will knock your socks off - you're already dead in the water. Grassroots organizations thrive and succeed when their membership is large, fully engaged, responsive and downright feisty - it's the members that do the heavy lifting - always!

As someone else noted, the NRA sends you alerts - making it abundantly easy to make yourself heard by legislators. But, how many of you actually send the email? How many of you actively participate in campaigning for 2A candidates (even informally, amongst your own social circle)? How many of you make it a personal goal to regularly bring guests to the range? How many of you signed up for the conference? (One benefit was hearing about other activities to steer your guests to).

I've no doubt some of you do all of that and more. I also have a sneaking suspicion that some of you who complain the loudest do none of those things!

There's an estimated 800,000 to 1 mill gun owners in NJ. How many do you think are ACTIVELY engaged in 2A issues? I'm guessing it's no more than a few percent, if that. That's your problem right there IMO. The problem isn't that on occasion some of these orgs will disagree on the best approach to a particular issue. Stop blaming the non-profit orgs... and blame the gun owners who either refuse to join - or - they join but then wash their hands of responsibility because they think sending in the membership fee was  "enough" personal sacrifice and so they don't pull their weight in any other meaningful way. Honestly, I  think every soldier in the history of this country that died protecting our rights must be rolling over in his grave to see how those rights are being encroached upon today...  and how unwilling we are to really fight to save them. 

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Btdt peel, did the calls, emails, went and talked to my state legislators that i could get a hold of. Faxes, and mailed printed and signed dorm letters.  Still do the emails whenever anti 2a bills come up. I also call. I have called loretta Weinberg s office, Greenwald and Sweeney as well over the last couple years. They only hire true beleivers at all those places.

All to little or no avail. I do not have the time to take a whole day when i am travelling for work 3-5 days a week. That is the main reason i am leaving nj, not because of the incoming steamroller of revenge

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50 minutes ago, matty said:

Btdt peel, did the calls, emails, went and talked to my state legislators that i could get a hold of. Faxes, and mailed printed and signed dorm letters.  Still do the emails whenever anti 2a bills come up. I also call. I have called loretta Weinberg s office, Greenwald and Sweeney as well over the last couple years. They only hire true beleivers at all those places.

All to little or no avail. I do not have the time to take a whole day when i am travelling for work 3-5 days a week. That is the main reason i am leaving nj, not because of the incoming steamroller of revenge

Well then, Matty... it sounds like the problem is that there simply weren't more just like you! Your departure to Free America will be our loss.

This is pure conjecture on my part... but I would guess that if ALL NJ gun owners at least considered 2A as a "top 3" issue when casting their votes at the state and local level... and if even just 5% of them (what's that, 40-50k statewide?) were as ACTIVELY politically engaged as you have been in the past... we wouldn't have the political landscape that we do right now. 

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On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Smokin .50 said:

RUDE & SAD!  A Nissan Dealership wanted that space & had a bigger checkbook, so property owner sold it to Nissan.  

Keyboard Commando much?  

thanx for that info, makes sense as a single dealership corp seems to have a monopoly on most of the car places along this Ramsey/Mahwah rt 17 corridor. I wouldnt be suprised if Ramsey already new of Nissans interest and just played the waiting game, thus another reason for all the postponements.

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40 minutes ago, siderman said:

thanx for that info, makes sense as a single dealership corp seems to have a monopoly on most of the car places along this Ramsey/Mahwah rt 17 corridor. I wouldnt be suprised if Ramsey already new of Nissans interest and just played the waiting game, thus another reason for all the postponements.

Yes, it makes sense & DOLLARS!  

The misinformation campaign launched by a single individual in a vain attempt to cover his own public meddling in a business affair in which he never consulted with the proposed range owner, a juvenile provocateur if you will, rises to the level of slander.  To release such slanderous balderdash the day prior to the largest Second Amendment event of the entire year and then boycott the event (NJSAFE) would lead any normal-thinking person to believe that any "problem" rests solely in the mind of the provocateur.  Most NJ gun owners get somewhat emotional when looking to assign blame on why things (especially gun rights) in NJ aren't instantly better.  Their emotions can cloud their judgement.  Cooler heads prevailed & some "Damage Control" was called for so Joe Average attendee got both sides of the story instead of watching an unanswered salvo drop out of the sky. 

At the end of the day, everyone trying to rally the troops to fight the Anti's was either at NJSAFE or at work or had a personal/family reason for not attending (like our own Dan Grdovic, a Mod here, who was celebrating his wedding anniversary).  Dan not being there didn't stop the Coalition from having two Trustees & four committee people there as well as several rank & file members helping at the registration table, greeting area, and anywhere else John Willett needed help!  The rest of the BS here & on Facebook is JUST NOISE.  A mere distraction to everyone else.  "Going NUCLEAR" is costing him a great deal.  Forget about burning bridges, because they were JDAM'ed into oblivion.  

If you're the only guy screaming & carrying-on like a wild man, pretty soon the folks in white coats will come-a-callin'.

I've probably said more than I should've, but since I'm blocked from responding to some of the Facebook pages that have been shown to me, I felt I needed to clear the air.  Sorry for the rant.  Now let's get off our rumor-grinding soap boxes & kick some more Anti ass TOGETHER!

Rosey

http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us 

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On 9/24/2017 at 0:08 PM, Mrs. Peel said:

True, having only been exposed to guns for less than 2 years, I haven't seen all that some of you have seen... haven't experienced all of your understandable legislative disappointments.

That said, in my career, I have worked with several non-profits both large and small and I feel I have a handle on how they're staffed (can you say "shoestring?"), what they can accomplish by themselves, and what they can't. From my perspective, if you're "waiting" for the NRA or ANJRPC to do something that will knock your socks off - you're already dead in the water. Grassroots organizations thrive and succeed when their membership is large, fully engaged, responsive and downright feisty - it's the members that do the heavy lifting - always!

As someone else noted, the NRA sends you alerts - making it abundantly easy to make yourself heard by legislators. But, how many of you actually send the email? How many of you actively participate in campaigning for 2A candidates (even informally, amongst your own social circle)? How many of you make it a personal goal to regularly bring guests to the range? How many of you signed up for the conference? (One benefit was hearing about other activities to steer your guests to).

I've no doubt some of you do all of that and more. I also have a sneaking suspicion that some of you who complain the loudest do none of those things!

There's an estimated 800,000 to 1 mill gun owners in NJ. How many do you think are ACTIVELY engaged in 2A issues? I'm guessing it's no more than a few percent, if that. That's your problem right there IMO. The problem isn't that on occasion some of these orgs will disagree on the best approach to a particular issue. Stop blaming the non-profit orgs... and blame the gun owners who either refuse to join - or - they join but then wash their hands of responsibility because they think sending in the membership fee was  "enough" personal sacrifice and so they don't pull their weight in any other meaningful way. Honestly, I  think every soldier in the history of this country that died protecting our rights must be rolling over in his grave to see how those rights are being encroached upon today...  and how unwilling we are to really fight to save them. 

The estimate of "1 million gun owners" in this state I believe to be pure folly. In the last ten years, 2 million residents have fled this state.  How many of those represented "gun owners?" For those two million, who have their replacements been? Others eager to reap the benefits of the cornucopia of freedoms here or something else? 

Truth in Accounting's report last week labels New Jersey "the sinkhole state," with a tax burden of $67,200 per taxpayer.  Highest in the nation. 

I say read the writing on the wall. 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Parker said:

The estimate of "1 million gun owners" in this state I believe to be pure folly. In the last ten years, 2 million residents have fled this state.  How many of those represented "gun owners?" For those two million, who have their replacements been? Others eager to reap the benefits of the cornucopia of freedoms here or something else? 

Truth in Accounting's report last week labels New Jersey "the sinkhole state," with a tax burden of $67,200 per taxpayer.  Highest in the nation. 

I say read the writing on the wall. 

OK, what if the estimate is off by a full 50%? (which I think is really doubtful, but let's say it was...) So, hypothetically, what if it were only 400-500,000 gun owners in this state? Activating only 5% would still be 20-25,000 angry, letter-writing, phone-calling, donating, protesting, campaigning 2A activists. What is there now? Realistically, maybe only hundreds?

Believe me, I'm not a pie-in-the-sky person. I don't see myself retiring in NJ. But right now, I have an elderly parent here, so this is where I need to be - might as well fight to make it decent is my attitude. That report you quoted is only MORE reason why Murphy can and should be defeated. To see a stat like that while at the same time he's pushing for yet more expensive programs would show ANY reasonable person (regardless of 2A stance) that this guy could be the final deathblow for the state. He won't even commit to keeping a cap on property taxes, and he wants to raise every other tax imaginable - and it still won't pay for everything he's proposing. 2A is just one issue... it's about time NJ property owners reared up and took back their damn state! In fact, it's overdue. 

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

OK, what if the estimate is off by a full 50%? (which I think is really doubtful, but let's say it was...) So, hypothetically, what if it were only 400-500,000 gun owners in this state? Activating only 5% would still be 20-25,000 angry, letter-writing, phone-calling, donating, protesting, campaigning 2A activists. What is there now? Realistically, maybe only hundreds?

Believe me, I'm not a pie-in-the-sky person. I don't see myself retiring in NJ. But right now, I have an elderly parent here, so this is where I need to be - might as well fight to make it decent is my attitude. That report you quoted is only MORE reason why Murphy can and should be defeated. To see a stat like that while at the same time he's pushing for yet more expensive programs would show ANY reasonable person (regardless of 2A stance) that this guy could be the final deathblow for the state. He won't even commit to keeping a cap on property taxes, and he wants to raise every other tax imaginable - and it still won't pay for everything he's proposing. 2A is just one issue... it's about time NJ property owners reared up and took back their damn state! In fact, it's overdue. 

That's all the reason more why Kim G. needs to get moving with her campaign and get her message out there about the evils of Murphy. He's been campaigning since September of 2016 and rolling up endorsements. Kim has been hidden by the large shadow cast by Christie. 

 

Another poll with Murphy in the lead, and the election is six weeks away. 

http://observer.com/2017/09/murphy-ahead-by-19-points-over-guadagno-in-new-poll/

 

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2 hours ago, Parker said:

The estimate of "1 million gun owners" in this state I believe to be pure folly. In the last ten years, 2 million residents have fled this state.  How many of those represented "gun owners?" For those two million, who have their replacements been? Others eager to reap the benefits of the cornucopia of freedoms here or something else? 

Truth in Accounting's report last week labels New Jersey "the sinkhole state," with a tax burden of $67,200 per taxpayer.  Highest in the nation. 

I say read the writing on the wall. 

 

 

 

I think more people probably leave this state due to over-taxation than due to illegal(yes, they are illegal) gun laws.

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1 hour ago, Parker said:

Another poll with Murphy in the lead, and the election is six weeks away. 

Maybe....

The Polls — All Of Them — Show Hillary Clinton Leading
Which means Donald Trump is losing. Oct 27, 2016

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-leading-polls_us_58112308e4b064e1b4b05ce5

"An AP-GFK poll shows Clinton leading by an astonishing 14 points, 51 percent to Trump’s 37 percent, in a four-way race. In a two-way heat, Clinton’s lead narrows to 13 points."

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40 minutes ago, NJGF said:

Maybe....

The Polls — All Of Them — Show Hillary Clinton Leading
Which means Donald Trump is losing. Oct 27, 2016

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-leading-polls_us_58112308e4b064e1b4b05ce5

"An AP-GFK poll shows Clinton leading by an astonishing 14 points, 51 percent to Trump’s 37 percent, in a four-way race. In a two-way heat, Clinton’s lead narrows to 13 points."

Noted. 

Only that poll almost reflects what happened here in New Jersey. Hillary won NJ in the 2016 election and outdistanced Trump by a half-million more votes. (The dead came out in droves and voted twice!) 

Let's hope Kim can salvage herself. 

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On 9/24/2017 at 10:38 AM, matty said:

The Ramsey Range issue is a don't care for me, there can be a number of reasons that application was withdrawn. Happens all the time at zoning boards. I, like may others, have heard the same old song from NRA and ANJRPC about how they are working behind the scenes in NJ, yet things only get worse. And are likely to get much worse. Unless they can somehow engineer a Trumpian level upset of Murphy, I don't see them being able or willing to do much to prevent the Steamroller of Revenge from quashing 2A rights in NJ. I will save my money for moving out of NJ.

Honestly, they did a lot of work on Christie to get him where he ended up vetoing a ton of stuff that would have screwed us.  I think we need both the folks that can work the inside track quietly and the guys who can get loud on the outside track.  It's even better if they can stay aligned and try not to step on each others toes.  

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48 minutes ago, John Willett said:

Honestly, they did a lot of work on Christie to get him where he ended up vetoing a ton of stuff that would have screwed us.  I think we need both the folks that can work the inside track quietly and the guys who can get loud on the outside track.  It's even better if they can stay aligned and try not to step on each others toes.  

Wise words. United we stand... divided is why we are; where we are...

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53 minutes ago, John Willett said:

Honestly, they did a lot of work on Christie to get him where he ended up vetoing a ton of stuff that would have screwed us.  I think we need both the folks that can work the inside track quietly and the guys who can get loud on the outside track.  It's even better if they can stay aligned and try not to step on each others toes.  

^^^WORD^^^

What we need is the same meeting I've been calling for for 3 years now!  Get the "Inside Track" to talk to the "Outside Track" so everybody knows where everybody is on current events issues AND long-term planning.  Passionate "Outside Track" people are the first to scream that things aren't being done FAST enough, yet still won't sit down to learn what's being accomplished w/o chest-thumping.  Then throw-in a little slander to liven up the party and add a pinch of "Damage Control" and we've arrived at where we are today.  So let's get the meeting scheduled, right?  

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