NRA & ANJRPC nowhere to be found over the course of Ramsey gun range case

[siderman 1,137]

Just read in the local rag sheet that Nissan/Ramsey Auto Group, the recent purchaser of the property, was in confidential negotiations with the owners since June basically since the first town meeting which of course got ugly real fast. Said you can drag out this gun range mess to who knows what end or take our money now. Range never even had a chance no matter who or what 2A group intervened.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

9 minutes ago, siderman said:

Just read in the local rag sheet that Nissan/Ramsey Auto Group, the recent purchaser of the property, was in confidential negotiations with the owners since June basically since the first town meeting which of course got ugly real fast. Said you can drag out this gun range mess to who knows what end or take our money now. Range never even had a chance no matter who or what 2A group intervened.

Which "rag" & might you please post a link?  Thanks!

[siderman 1,137]

2 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

Which "rag" & might you please post a link?  Thanks!

Suburban News tossed in my driveway. I looked up the on-line link for you at Northjersey.com  http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/ramsey/2017/09/22/proposed-ramsey-gun-range-site-getting-new-tenant/690635001/

[Smokin .50 1,907]

44 minutes ago, siderman said:

Suburban News tossed in my driveway. I looked up the on-line link for you at Northjersey.com  http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/ramsey/2017/09/22/proposed-ramsey-gun-range-site-getting-new-tenant/690635001/

Nothing like FACTS to set the record straight!  So basically, once Ramsey made a stink about the gun range concept, and the Auto Dealership group that owns 7 dealerships on the Rt. 17 corridor saw this happen LAST JUNE, the Dealership Group ran in the back door & scooped-up a 15 year lease w/ option to buy!  So the illegal town ordinance that was merely threatened & never actually enacted, never faced any real threat of an actual suit.  Instead, the political maneuvering by the town itself ensured an established business a golden opportunity to swoop-in to "keep Ramsey residents feeling good".  To me it almost sounds like a case of backroom politics as a way to "pay-back" a current Ramsey taxpayer.  I wonder how much the Auto Group donates to the town & its' officials???  Bottom line, "going Nuclear" with threat of a lawsuit actually HELPED THE AUTO GROUP's position.  So now they can take-over the 60K+ sq ft facility and have CAR-CARRIERS block Spring Street all hours of the day & night   

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

14 hours ago, stuckinNJ said:

Seriously, what would it take to get the NRA, CNJFO, ANJRPC and NJ2AS to sit down?

Well, in all fairness, 3 of them were all at the same conference and we didn't see any of this:  There was even some sportsman's association there --- so, a 4th group --- still no discernable squabbling at all! They all seemed to be in agreement from what I could see.

I'm still trying to figure this all out, quite frankly. But, my sneaking suspicion is this: NJ2AS is great at flame-throwing.... and that can be both really good and really bad. For instance, that video they did about the NJ pol who's against tasers... (but oh yeah... he was indicted TWICE for stalking 2 different women)... that was bloody freaking genius! When you call out the hypocrisy of anti-self-defense politicians like that, I'm all for it. But when NJ2AS is flaming the other NJ2A groups?... I'm just not seeing the purpose in that.

Maybe they should all focus on what they seem most well-suited for? NJ2AS can continue to expose and call out the hypocrisy of these dirty politicians, NRA/ANJRPC can continue to focus on quiet, behind the doors lobbying (but harnessing more NRA support behind NJ lawsuits, etc.), and CNJFO can focus on their efforts to pull more NJ residents into the shooting sports, and trying to get NJ hunters more activated, etc. Obviously, there's always going to be SOME overlap... but it seems to me things would work better if they all would "stay in their own lanes" most of the time... and give each other a "heads up" when they're leaving their lane in case coordination would be useful. This "eating our own" is not appropriate IMO, ever.

On a positive note, at least the SAFE Conference provides a venue for these groups to come together. It would be nice if they all showed up next year... and maybe had some kind of separate strategy meeting later that evening?

[Smokin .50 1,907]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Well, in all fairness, 3 of them were all at the same conference and we didn't see any of this:  There was even some sportsman's association there --- so, a 4th group --- still no discernable squabbling at all! They all seemed to be in agreement from what I could see.

I'm still trying to figure this all out, quite frankly. But, my sneaking suspicion is this: NJ2AS is great at flame-throwing.... and that can be both really good and really bad. For instance, that video they did about the NJ pol who's against tasers... (but oh yeah... he was indicted TWICE for stalking 2 different women)... that was bloody freaking genius! When you call out the hypocrisy of anti-self-defense politicians like that, I'm all for it. But when NJ2AS is flaming the other NJ2A groups?... I'm just not seeing the purpose in that.

Maybe they should all focus on what they seem most well-suited for? NJ2AS can continue to expose and call out the hypocrisy of these dirty politicians, NRA/ANJRPC can continue to focus on quiet, behind the doors lobbying (but harnessing more NRA support behind NJ lawsuits, etc.), and CNJFO can focus on their efforts to pull more NJ residents into the shooting sports, and trying to get NJ hunters more activated, etc. Obviously, there's always going to be SOME overlap... but it seems to me things would work better if they all would "stay in their own lanes" most of the time... and give each other a "heads up" when they're leaving their lane in case coordination would be useful. This "eating our own" is not appropriate IMO, ever.

On a positive note, at least the SAFE Conference provides a venue for these groups to come together. It would be nice if they all showed up next year... and maybe had some kind of separate strategy meeting later that evening?

HOT ZIGGIDDY ZAGNUT!  Peel, you hit the nail on the head (AGAIN!).  I have been trying to organize a "Meeting of The Families" for over three years now.  Everybody is willing 'cept for ONE.  Can you guess which ONE doesn't want to discuss ANYTHING?  We (CNJFO) have "stayed in our lane" the entire time we've been in existence.  In point of fact, as the Recall Sweeney effort was deemed more important (by our own Board of Trustees no less) than announcing we were ALIVE as a group, on Anthony Colandro's request we POSTPONED ANY PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS so we wouldn't distract ATTENTION OR FUNDS away from the recall effort being run by NJ2AS.  No podcast, no web site mention, no public appearances, no Facebook presence, NADA!  We were operating underground on donations strictly from the Trustees themselves so we could incorporate & file for federal & state tax-exempt status.  In our lane?  We were on our own freaking highway, lol!   

The 4th group you mentioned above is called, "New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmens Clubs".  Old Timers like myself just call it  "The Federation".  I've been a member for probably going-on 20 years.  Their emphasis is on the hunting & fishing & trapping sports.  They have County Chapters, hold local meetings, work closely with New Jersey Fish & Wildlife, Hunters Education & Testing, etc., and publish a monthly printed newspaper using REAL INK & newsprint.  One of their former officers is a life member of CNJFO.  One of their columnists is a widely published author on NJ history (Joseph Bilby) and a Facebook friend of mine that writes a black powder column for the Federation.  Take a peek here:  http://www.njsfsc.org .  They have a fantastic member benefit of liability insurance for gun owners, one of the main reasons I've maintained my membership for going on two decades  . 

Thanks again Peel for the straightforward look from the outside.  God how I wish everybody else would understand things like you do, go to events & see for themselves, and develop their own opinions through the enlightenment obtained by seeing it firsthand instead of running hell bent for election on rumors & innuendo.  Well done Girl!

Oh, one more thing:  It was nice to see you there, so thanks for taking the time, effort & dollars to do so!

Rosey

[bhunted 887]

Rosey, you need to hire her asap! [emoji6]


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[W2MC 1,699]

Wow.....just wow.

I read Alex's rant last week with some bemusement...while he made some points that I agree with, I could see no rhyme nor reason behind making his statements in such a public forum.  I also thought that this article did nothing to further the cause here in NJ, and had just put a match to any bridge between NJ2AS and the other organizations in the state.

Now I read Smokin .50's comments that the NJ2AS never consulted with the proposed range, and the article (above) where they were in discussions since June to sell to the car dealer...I'm no longer bemused. 

I'm flabergasted.

Ranting and raving without first doing your homework?  Then bitching and moaning in a public forum about the groups who apparently DID do their homework?  

That's a failure

[bhunted 887]

I cut back on donations to them because of their brash behavior.  I can no longer support any gun group of lower tier 'tudes. I dish out enough money for this cause. I'd rather support the groups that are willing to work hand in hand with each other. These past pissing matches need to stop.
People here in NJ just don't seem to want to be part of one cause. They'd rather brag about what they are doing. They need to capture everyone's backing. Not constantly chest bang rabble rabble BS.

 

 

[W2MC 1,699]

Yeah...what I was thinking as well.

Reading some of the newer comments over on f-book, I don't think Alex realizes that he was being used....

 

[siderman 1,137]

To be clear here I dont have a problem with the NJ2AS in fact I very much like their in your face pitbull actions. Their decorum, well that may need some smoothing out... At the very least other towns may have taken notice that a 2A group is watching, ready and willing to fight at a moments notice. Like Mrs P pointed out we need different lanes (tactics) and I like seeing a group thats out in the trenches. NJ hates the 2A and is very active in its oppression of it so seeing actual real time resistance is refreshing and certainly needed. I have trouble buying in to the top secret behind the scenes state level lobbying -could be or couldnt be, how are we supposed to know? Cant be that effective anyway if this state keeps tracking like it has and is threatening to do more oppression in regards to our 2A rights. Nothing ever gets reversed (or grandfathered), wheres the effectiveness in that? And no offense to the groups that work at promoting the shooting sports- its a good thing for sure!- but thats not going counter hundreds of thousands, if not a million voters that swing this state the way its (been) going. So, seeing what the NJ2AS does, despite its sometimes crude behaviour at least to me is about the only good news I ever see in fighting for our rights in the state. Its real and I can see it happening, unlike waiting for big things to happen- that dont.

[bhunted 887]

Fighting for the cause is one thing. Fighting with people trying to accomplish the same thing is where I have a problem.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[W2MC 1,699]

I cant agree, Siderman.  Coordinated effort is what is needed.  "In-your-face" political protest can be a worthwhile tool, but if you don't know what is going on, at best you're just making noise, and at worst you're part of the problem.

 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

1 hour ago, siderman said:

To be clear here I dont have a problem with the NJ2AS in fact I very much like their in your face pitbull actions. Their decorum, well that may need some smoothing out... At the very least other towns may have taken notice that a 2A group is watching, ready and willing to fight at a moments notice. Like Mrs P pointed out we need different lanes (tactics) and I like seeing a group thats out in the trenches. NJ hates the 2A and is very active in its oppression of it so seeing actual real time resistance is refreshing and certainly needed. I have trouble buying in to the top secret behind the scenes state level lobbying -could be or couldnt be, how are we supposed to know? Cant be that effective anyway if this state keeps tracking like it has and is threatening to do more oppression in regards to our 2A rights. Nothing ever gets reversed (or grandfathered), wheres the effectiveness in that? And no offense to the groups that work at promoting the shooting sports- its a good thing for sure!- but thats not going counter hundreds of thousands, if not a million voters that swing this state the way its (been) going. So, seeing what the NJ2AS does, despite its sometimes crude behaviour at least to me is about the only good news I ever see in fighting for our rights in the state. Its real and I can see it happening, unlike waiting for big things to happen- that dont.

Coming to the ANJR&PC annual meeting on Sunday October 15th at The Grand Summit Hotel?  The annual meeting & luncheon is FREE to all members (you're a member, right--since your home range is Cherry Ridge?).  Then you can hear for yourself what's going on behind the scenes that we don't want the other side to get wind of  .  

FWIW and not to stir any SH!T up, but guess WHO & from WHAT GROUP successfully sued to get New Hampshire to sell non-resident CCW licenses that are recognized in Pennsylvania?  The very same license that you (maybe) and a bunch of us in NJ use to CCW in PA.?  That's right, Scott Bach & the ANJR&PC!  

Listen to NJ101.5 fm at all?  Notice which group is paying for air time for a pro-2A, pro self defense, pro-CCW ad?  That's right, it's ANJR&PC!  You want to change the world & get "hundreds of thousands if not a million voters" to swing our way?  Radio is a great way.  Reaching-out to the public at-large, mentoring new shooters, growing shooting clubs all contribute to CHANGING MINDS.   

"Crude behavior" is one thing, and slander is quite another.  This last juvenile outburst was slander.  He probably won't be sued for it though because guys like you would never understand.  The "Bad Optics" would give everyone involved in the Second Amendment a black eye.  The pit-bull needs a leash    Going-off half-cocked just to garner attention isn't what fighting for the Second Amendment is about.  Showing an Anti-2A politician speaking-out against stun guns as a defensive tool and then revealing this same politician to be a stalker with a record was pure GENIUS!  We'd all like to see more of THAT & less made-up suppositions about collusion and kickback scheme fantasies.  

Let's for the sake of argument forget about the last outburst.  Where do we go from here?  Wouldn't it be better to coordinate efforts and save time & money doing so?    At the end of the day, you've got to ask yourselves how effective is an organization that deliberately picks fights with the National Rifle Association (and their Institute for Legislative Action:  NRA-ILA) and gets away with telling its' membership THAT is the best way to promote the Second Amendment??  

[JrsyJack 1]

On 9/28/2017 at 0:29 AM, stuckinNJ said:

Seriously, what would it take to get the NRA, CNJFO, ANJRPC and NJ2AS to sit down?

A phone call

[bhunted 887]

3 hours ago, JrsyJack said:

A phone call

ETTTTTT! Incorrect!
The correct answer is..... Handcuffs, shackles and a tow truck. At least for a couple of them.

[W2MC 1,699]

A tow truck?

 

[bhunted 887]

A tow truck?
 

Yea, ya might have to drag them kicking and screaming by the shackles to get them there. [emoji6] Unless you’d rather throw them over your shoulders and carry them. Lol...


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[brucin 923]

On 9/28/2017 at 0:15 PM, siderman said:

Suburban News tossed in my driveway. I looked up the on-line link for you at Northjersey.com  http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/ramsey/2017/09/22/proposed-ramsey-gun-range-site-getting-new-tenant/690635001/

You should contact Gannett and tell them to stop throwing litter in your driveway.

[siderman 1,137]

On 9/29/2017 at 1:11 PM, Smokin .50 said:

Coming to the ANJR&PC annual meeting on Sunday October 15th at The Grand Summit Hotel?  The annual meeting & luncheon is FREE to all members (you're a member, right--since your home range is Cherry Ridge?).  Then you can hear for yourself what's going on behind the scenes that we don't want the other side to get wind of  .  

FWIW and not to stir any SH!T up, but guess WHO & from WHAT GROUP successfully sued to get New Hampshire to sell non-resident CCW licenses that are recognized in Pennsylvania?  The very same license that you (maybe) and a bunch of us in NJ use to CCW in PA.?  That's right, Scott Bach & the ANJR&PC!  

Listen to NJ101.5 fm at all?  Notice which group is paying for air time for a pro-2A, pro self defense, pro-CCW ad?  That's right, it's ANJR&PC!  You want to change the world & get "hundreds of thousands if not a million voters" to swing our way?  Radio is a great way.  Reaching-out to the public at-large, mentoring new shooters, growing shooting clubs all contribute to CHANGING MINDS.   

"Crude behavior" is one thing, and slander is quite another.  This last juvenile outburst was slander.  He probably won't be sued for it though because guys like you would never understand.  The "Bad Optics" would give everyone involved in the Second Amendment a black eye.  The pit-bull needs a leash    Going-off half-cocked just to garner attention isn't what fighting for the Second Amendment is about.  Showing an Anti-2A politician speaking-out against stun guns as a defensive tool and then revealing this same politician to be a stalker with a record was pure GENIUS!  We'd all like to see more of THAT & less made-up suppositions about collusion and kickback scheme fantasies.  

Let's for the sake of argument forget about the last outburst.  Where do we go from here?  Wouldn't it be better to coordinate efforts and save time & money doing so?    At the end of the day, you've got to ask yourselves how effective is an organization that deliberately picks fights with the National Rifle Association (and their Institute for Legislative Action:  NRA-ILA) and gets away with telling its' membership THAT is the best way to promote the Second Amendment??  

I'd like to see ANJRPC go off half cocked sometimes, as our official NRA rep i think they're too diplomatic/ civil/ passive and play small-ball against a staunch hardcore anti state like NJ. When/if Murphy gets elected and starts signing off on a bunch of anti legislation, which he already said he'd do, there better be some lawsuits by ANJRPC or they'll have proved themselves to be out of their element in defending our rights and then should just stick to promoting the shooting sports and not bother fighting for them. They've done some great stuff indeed such as Strikeforce on the local levels but they dont seem too eager to take on the state. How about going after OGAM (or any other infringement)- just because they should & can? Nope, status quo rules.... As to New Hampshire ccw, sure its a good thing but I wouldnt put that feather in our NRA cap, does nothing to help our 2A rights here where we need it. One more thing- Hey Alex, play nice. 

[Persona non grata 113]

As much as I appreciate some of the wins that NJ2AS has gotten, I have no intention of renewing my membership after this. I don't see how attacking NRA/ANJRPC will accomplish anything positive.

[stuckinNJ 81]

Is NJ2AS in this forum at all? Were they at one point? 

[Zeke 5,504]

6 minutes ago, stuckinNJ said:

Is NJ2AS in this forum at all? Were they at one point? 

They all were.. Monday morning qb will have an effect on volunteers 

[matty 810]

NJ2AS fractured when some people falsely accused its founder of stealing money or foul language or something, and then also complained about them not doing enough for CCW. Some bunch of them formed another group, which put up a website and was never heard from again. There may have been some fighting on Facebook about it, if dim memory serves. Roubian eventually became head of NJ2AS and it is what it is today. Some good, some bad. NJCSD imploded some time ago. CNJFO is completely separate group which seems to have competent leadership. ANJRPC is supposedly the best connected, but again, they blew their credibility as far as I am concerned when they trumpeted Christie's slight relaxation (if it even is) of the threat rule for CCW as some huge victory. I have yet to see/hear of some increase in approved CCW apps as a result of this 'victory'.  As far as ANJRPC pressuring Christie to veto the Democrats Hate Crimes against Gun Owners bills of 2013, he was going to run for the Republican nomination for pres in 2016, so he couldn't very well sign them.  

NAGR and GOA and SAF dont pay much heed or even organize in NJ as far as I know. NJOA endorsed Sweeney and regularly endorses Democrats, who really do hate you personally for owning firearms in NJ, so you know where the fudds stand.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Tune-in to Gun For Hire Radio Episode #331 for Anthony & Scott's "take" on NJSAFE & what really happened with the Ramsey Range.  Supposition, innuendo, and collusion (NOT!).:  http://gunforhire.com/blog/2017/10/01/gun-hire-radio-broadcast-episode-331/ 

[W2MC 1,699]

Is it me, or is Alex getting ready to implode?

 

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/10/why_a_gun_rights_advocate_is_sad_guadagnos_giving.html