NJGF 375 Posted October 11, 2017 The Metropolitan Police Department has updated their website to be in compliance with the latest appeals court decision: https://mpdc.dc.gov/node/929382 "Pursuant to the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, Wrenn v. District of Columbia and Grace v. District of Columbia, applicants for a license to carry a concealed handgun in the District of Columbia no longer need to provide a good reason for carrying a handgun." So another state goes shall issue!!! I will be making a trip to DC soon. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted October 12, 2017 I guess they aren't appealing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikelets456 78 Posted October 13, 2017 Wow---you need to certify 16 hours of training from MPD certified instructor? There's nothing that indicates Non-Residents can apply unless I missed it--- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) Question #20 on the application states:https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/page_content/attachments/Concealed Carry License Application_fillableform 101117.pdf Do you have a bona fide residence or place of business in the United States and are licensed to carry a concealed pistol by another State? The instructions for the application states:https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/page_content/attachments/Concealed Carry License Application Instructions_10 05 17.pdf If you answered “Yes” to Question 20, then you must provide the same types of documentation as required for Questions 18 or 19 and proof of concealed carry permit/license issued by another state Questions 18 and 19 are for residence or business owners in DC and the documentation required include official documents that have your address such as voter ID card, tax bills, etc. Edited October 13, 2017 by NJGF Updated to latest application Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 13, 2017 Some of the training requirements can be waived (except for the training on DC laws):https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/page_content/attachments/DC Regulations for Licenses for Concealed Pistols_through August 25 2017.pdf 24-2345. Non-Resident Applications for Concealed Carry License 2345.1 A non-resident of the District, as defined by the Act, may apply to the Firearms Registration Section for a concealed carry license upon a showing that the applicant meets all of the eligibility requirements of § 2332 2345.2 A non-resident may satisfy some or all of the firearms training requirements in § 2336 by providing proof of completion of a firearms training course in another state or subdivision of the United States. 2345.3 A non-resident shall obtain a certification from a firearms trainer that the applicant has received and completed training in District firearms law and the District law of self-defense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted October 13, 2017 so....a non-resident is a go? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted October 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, CageFighter said: so....a non-resident is a go? Read 2332. It says a license to carry by any state. No mention of resident or non-resident. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted October 13, 2017 when is the mass application going on? road trip? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted October 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, CageFighter said: when is the mass application going on? road trip? It may not be worth it unless you go to DC often. It appears DC will requie their permit to carry in DC. I doubt states will enter into reciprocity agreements will DC if DC won't recognize their permit. Unless collecting permits to carry is your hobby. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 508 Posted October 14, 2017 Here's the hard part. You need 16 hours of training and 2 hours of live fire. There are lots of companies that are certified to do training but all seem to train their own security guards. I only found one that offers training to people like us. But, why would there be any other schools when we know DC doesn't offer permits. The classes are 4 hours per night- 4 night plus a morning 2 hour live fire. So you need to be in DC for 4 days to get the training. I was hoping to drive down and spend 2 days getting the training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 15, 2017 Except for the DC legal class the other firearm training can be exempted. For example: military experience or for an instructor). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 508 Posted October 19, 2017 On 10/14/2017 at 9:01 PM, NJGF said: Except for the DC legal class the other firearm training can be exempted. For example: military experience or for an instructor). I'm an NRA instructor. Can you point me to the information on how to get exempted. I haven't found it on DC's site. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) Sorry for the delay in replying I have been away for a couple of days. The way I understand it, you have to apply for the ccw and request an exemption. It is then up to the chief to determine if your training is sufficient. https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/page_content/attachments/DC Regulations for Licenses for Concealed Pistols_through August 25 2017.pdf "2336.3 The Chief may, on a case by case basis, exempt a person from the requirements of §§ 2336.1 and 2336.2 if the person submits evidence that he or she has received firearms training in the U.S. military or has otherwise completed firearms training conducted by a firearms instructor that, as determined by the Chief, is equal to or greater than that required by the Act." I will be down in DC in a couple of weeks and will be submitting my application. I will find out if they accept my NRA instructor training as meeting their requirements (I have a variety of certifications including personal protection inside the home and personal protection outside the home). I found this DC training company at:http://discovershootingnow.com/dc-concealed-carry-classes/ Except for the legal class they say that DC may exempt you if you have substantial training (2 days in non-basic training) or if you are a firearms instructor. Edited October 21, 2017 by NJGF Fix type 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 27, 2017 In the application for a DC concealed carry license there is the following section and question:https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/page_content/attachments/ConcealedCarryLicense_GoodReasonApplication_fillableform.pdf Firearms Training Background 4. Are you requesting an exemption from the firearms training course requirements in either Question 1 or 2 above? In the instructions for filling out the form they provide examples that meet the training requirement (this document is a few years old): Instructions for Submitting an Application for a Concealed Carry Pistol Licensehttps://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/page_content/attachments/ConcealedCarryLicenseApplicationInstructions102214_FINAL.pdf 3. In the Firearms Training Background section of the application: If you are requesting an exemption to the firearms training course requirements, Section 2336.3 of the regulations requires you to provide supporting documentation, such as: - Firearms training provided by the National Rifle Association - DD Form 214 if it shows special training for marksmanship - Retired law enforcement officer credentials - Hunting license - Armed special police officer license So with all of the demonizing of the NRA they (as other states also do) use the NRA training to meet their training requirements. What do the anti-2a groups say about this?? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,765 Posted October 30, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 1:33 PM, NJGF said: So another state goes shall issue!!! I will be making a trip to DC soon. D.C. isn’t a state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted October 30, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 8:41 PM, Zeke said: I guess they aren't appealing If they appeal, it will go to the supreme court and they know they will lose. If that happened, then states like CA, NJ, NY, HI, MA would have to change their laws too. So D.C. got pressure from these states to be quiet and accept it. Kinda like taking one for the team. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted October 31, 2017 15 hours ago, Ray Ray said: If they appeal, it will go to the supreme court and they know they will lose. If that happened, then states like CA, NJ, NY, HI, MA would have to change their laws too. So D.C. got pressure from these states to be quiet and accept it. Kinda like taking one for the team. Exactly... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted October 31, 2017 16 hours ago, Ray Ray said: If they appeal, it will go to the supreme court and they know they will lose. If that happened, then states like CA, NJ, NY, HI, MA would have to change their laws too. So D.C. got pressure from these states to be quiet and accept it. Kinda like taking one for the team. Although I no longer have a dog in the NJ fight I sill cannot see why there isn't a mass application in NJ for carry licenses. The statistics don't look bad if nobody applies. In addition, how can you sue the state for not allowing CCW that hasn't denied you anything? Saying that there is a de facto ban on carry licenses has no impact if the numbers don't agree. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 31, 2017 Once you are turned down you then have to keep answering the question whether you have been ever turned down (which is asked by most states). 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, NJGF said: Once you are turned down you then have to keep answering the question whether you have been ever turned down (which is asked by most states). This is what has forced me to keep my mouth shut. If this were not the case, I would apply TODAY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted October 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, NJGF said: Once you are turned down you then have to keep answering the question whether you have been ever turned down (which is asked by most states). 8 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: This is what has forced me to keep my mouth shut. If this were not the case, I would apply TODAY. This has been discussed openly by NJSP. it does not disqualify you to purchase reason for denial “ nj ccw”. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted October 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, Zeke said: This has been discussed openly by NJSP. it does not disqualify you to purchase reason for denial “ nj ccw”. To be even more specific, the NJSP rep who was at the SAFE conference, stated (while being videotaped, mind you) that if the reason for denying a concealed carry license was inadequate "justifiable need" - it would say so on the record of the denial - and that would NOT hurt your chances of applying in the future for a concealed carry license. He was pretty adamant! In fact, he was encouraging people to do so. He then clarified saying that if you were denied to make sure to state that on that next application, otherwise you were falsifying a form. I've been noodling on this for awhile... if people are so afraid to do this... why not recruit a whole bunch of family and friends who have NO BURNING INTEREST in having a concealed carry license... and have them all apply? Do it in a coordinated effort and track it all. Win-win. If they get denied, you start getting your "true" statistical picture of how the state denies the vast majority cc applications AND that then provides grounds for legal action. (And someone got denied who really doesn't care anyway. No loss!) If they DO get approved, it then forces the issue of approving others. "Why did hers get approved and not mine?" Either way, it starts applying pressure... and provides fodder for future lawsuits. That's how I see it! Thoughts? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Mrs. Peel said: To be even more specific, the NJSP rep who was at the SAFE conference, stated (while being videotaped, mind you) that if the reason for denying a concealed carry license was inadequate "justifiable need" - it would say so on the record of the denial - and that would NOT hurt your chances of applying in the future for a concealed carry license. He was pretty adamant! In fact, he was encouraging people to do so. He then clarified saying that you were denied to make sure to state that on that next application, otherwise you were falsifying a form. I've been noodling on this for awhile... if people are so afraid to do this... why not recruit a whole bunch of family and friends who have NO BURNING INTEREST in having a concealed carry license... and have them all apply? Do it in a coordinated effort and track it all. Win-win. If they get denied, you start getting your "true" statistical picture of how the state denies the vast majority cc applications AND that then provides grounds for legal action. (And someone got denied who really doesn't care anyway. No loss!) If they DO get approved, it then forces the issue of approving others. "Why did hers get approved and not mine?" Either way, it starts applying pressure... and provides fodder for future lawsuits. That's how I see it! Thoughts? I’m waiting on my NH.(5year permit) . My chief has all ready told me he will sign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted October 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said: To be even more specific, the NJSP rep who was at the SAFE conference, stated (while being videotaped, mind you) that if the reason for denying a concealed carry license was inadequate "justifiable need" - it would say so on the record of the denial - and that would NOT hurt your chances of applying in the future for a concealed carry license. He was pretty adamant! In fact, he was encouraging people to do so. He then clarified saying that if you were denied to make sure to state that on that next application, otherwise you were falsifying a form. I've been noodling on this for awhile... if people are so afraid to do this... why not recruit a whole bunch of family and friends who have NO BURNING INTEREST in having a concealed carry license... and have them all apply? Do it in a coordinated effort and track it all. Win-win. If they get denied, you start getting your "true" statistical picture of how the state denies the vast majority cc applications AND that then provides grounds for legal action. (And someone got denied who really doesn't care anyway. No loss!) If they DO get approved, it then forces the issue of approving others. "Why did hers get approved and not mine?" Either way, it starts applying pressure... and provides fodder for future lawsuits. That's how I see it! Thoughts? Woman with a plan! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted October 31, 2017 53 minutes ago, NJGF said: Once you are turned down you then have to keep answering the question whether you have been ever turned down (which is asked by most states). Most states do not ask that question. I did a search of the common states for CCW and found that NH is the only that asks if you have ever been turned down. Are NJ people really that afraid? With that attitude NJ will never have a chance of getting CCW unless the challenge comes from out of state like a Supreme Court decision based upon another state that is similar. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, JC_68Westy said: Most states do not ask that question. I did a search of the common states for CCW and found that NH is the only that asks if you have ever been turned down. Are NJ people really that afraid? With that attitude NJ will never have a chance of getting CCW unless the challenge comes from out of state like a Supreme Court decision based upon another state that is similar. My sample was too small and I shouldn't have said most. A couple of months ago I renewed my NH and last week I sent in my Maine renewal both of which ask the question. I just checked and my CT app also had the question but my others didn't. So I should have said a few states Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said: To be even more specific, the NJSP rep who was at the SAFE conference, stated (while being videotaped, mind you) that if the reason for denying a concealed carry license was inadequate "justifiable need" - it would say so on the record of the denial - and that would NOT hurt your chances of applying in the future for a concealed carry license. He was pretty adamant! In fact, he was encouraging people to do so. He then clarified saying that if you were denied to make sure to state that on that next application, otherwise you were falsifying a form. I've been noodling on this for awhile... if people are so afraid to do this... why not recruit a whole bunch of family and friends who have NO BURNING INTEREST in having a concealed carry license... and have them all apply? Do it in a coordinated effort and track it all. Win-win. If they get denied, you start getting your "true" statistical picture of how the state denies the vast majority cc applications AND that then provides grounds for legal action. (And someone got denied who really doesn't care anyway. No loss!) If they DO get approved, it then forces the issue of approving others. "Why did hers get approved and not mine?" Either way, it starts applying pressure... and provides fodder for future lawsuits. That's how I see it! Thoughts? I also heard him say this at the SAFE conference. Call me cautious (or just paranoid about NJ) but I don't trust Loretta to not change this in the future and find another thing to deny us our rights. This would be particularly important in the future when SCOTUS extends Heller to outside of the home! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted October 31, 2017 There was talk of an organized effort to submit CCW applications in NJ a while back. I'm not sure why it was put on the back burner. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said: There was talk of an organized effort to submit CCW applications in NJ a while back. I'm not sure why it was put on the back burner. I’ll bet @Bighungry618 on this one... also 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted October 31, 2017 I'd submit an application. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites