Concealed Carry in DC

[Zeke 5,504]

1 minute ago, ChrisJM981 said:

I'd submit an application. 

Why not? Right?

[ChrisJM981 924]

If we could get 500-1000 people to apply it would destroy their 90% approval rating. 

[Zeke 5,504]

It’ll be you and me, and @Ray Ray

[JohnnyB 4,322]

4 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

There was talk of an organized effort to submit CCW applications in NJ a while back. I'm not sure why it was put on the back burner.

It was called "apply to be denied".  We had a couple meetings about it. I was there, Maintenance Guy, Jack&JIll, Golf Battery and several others......It died because we did not have enough people who felt as we did to make a big enough statement to bring change to the PRNJ to make it worthwhile.

[ChrisJM981 924]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

It was called "apply to be denied".  We had a couple meetings about it. I was there, Maintenance Guy, Jack&JIll, Golf Battery and several others......It died because we did not have enough people who felt as we did to make a big enough statement to bring change to the PRNJ to make it worthwhile.

Was it through NJ2AS?

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

53 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

It was called "apply to be denied".  We had a couple meetings about it. I was there, Maintenance Guy, Jack&JIll, Golf Battery and several others......It died because we did not have enough people who felt as we did to make a big enough statement to bring change to the PRNJ to make it worthwhile.

Time to revisit... now... or at least soon? The landscape has changed after all: the DC case, the composition of SCOTUS and appeals courts... and at the state level, on ominous potential governor looming... might be just the right time for gun owners in this state to say "enough already" and, ummm, grow a pair (if you'll pardon the crass expression).

[JohnnyB 4,322]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Time to revisit... now... or at least soon? The landscape has changed after all: the DC case, the composition of SCOTUS and appeals courts... and at the state level, on ominous potential governor looming... might be just the right time for gun owners in this state to say "enough already" and, ummm, grow a pair (if you'll pardon the crass expression).

Only if enough people go along with us!  Easier said than done as we found out with our original effort. I would ask that Ryan (Maintenance Guy) chime in here if we are to make a 2nd go at this effort. He took the lead in the first effort.

2 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

Was it through NJ2AS?

No. NJ2AS was a fledgling group under Frank Fiamingo at the time.  Not a big player at that time.

[ChrisJM981 924]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Only if enough people go along with us!  Easier said than done as we found out with our original effort. I would ask that Ryan (Maintenance Guy) chime in here if we are to make a 2nd go at this effort. He took the lead in the first effort.

No. NJ2AS was a fledgling group under Frank Fiamingo at the time.  Not a big player at that time.

I liked Frank. He was passionate. What about CNJFO? They're pretty organized.

[Bighungry618 450]

On 10/31/2017 at 4:14 PM, Zeke said:

It’ll be you and me, and @Ray Ray

I'm In....

[MartyZ 692]

i'm in as well, I don't mind getting denied. But we need to do it all at once, flood them with applications.

[maintenanceguy 510]

A bunch of us were pretty fired up about the "apply to be denied idea".  As others have said, the state went to the 3rd federal circuit court and said that NJ issues permits to more than 90% of applicants so that proves that NJ isn't denying anyone their rights.   Since nobody ever applies, this was true.

The federal circuit court ruled that NJ's law is just fine as it is.  After several weeks (maybe months) of bitching about it, a dozen of the regulars here decided to meet to work out a plan.   We met with an attorney who wasn't crazy about our plan - but we weren't' discouraged. 

I think it fizzled when there was a lot to do and nobody really wanted to take on the work.  I had initiated the first meeting but wasn't interested in leading the group and nobody else seemed that interested either.  It was then that I understood that it's a lot of work and dedication to run an organization.  We may not like NJ2AS tactics sometimes (or other groups) but I appreciate the hard work those groups are willing to put in to joust at windmills.

I'd apply if there was a movement but I'm not sure another case will be heard in the federal courts from NJ and I don't know that NJ would use the same argument again.  Truth is, I'm not sure NJ even needs to have any sort of argument to justify it's actions..

The more I follow federal gun rights cases, it becomes obvious that the constitution, facts, and truth have little weight in court.  Activist judges will do back flips to come up with contrived, ridiculous, rational to keep people from exercising their rights - facts be damned.

If nothing else, i was nice to put some faces to the people on this board.

 

[JohnnyB 4,322]

The hard part was convincing and enlisting the large number of people we needed to make the point we were trying to make. We even had our own section here on NJGF but very few other than us seemed interested. As Ryan stated, it was nice to meet some of the members and we learned a lot about the process and by talking to attorneys.

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

The idea may need to be revisited. But, as I see it, it might make more sense to show up en masse at one of these groups (with a number of their members in tow) - and say "it's time to step up". If you've got orgs with attorneys on speed dial, dues payments rolling in, it may be time to apply pressure to get them to back an orchestrated plan like this. I'm not saying going it alone is out of the question... but as @maintenanceguypointed out, there's certainly something to be said for an organization with an existing infrastructure.

Purely my own opinion (and I'll trust people "in the know" will chime in if they disagree):

• ANJRPC has the lawyers on speed dial, has a certain repeat membership rolling in, and yet I don't see a ton of legal action. I think they need "pressure" from members to do the right thing. Am I wrong? Maybe so.
• NJ2AS is feisty and activist - they'll have no problem filing a lawsuit. But they also have a "loose cannon" in Roubian who seems capable of doing as much (or more) damage than good. That's a real concern. Can he be tempered?
• CNJFO seems (to me) to have a mission geared to awareness raising, recruiting new people into shooting, and building bridges between the tactical shooters and the hunter type of shooters. I don't know that they even lean towards filing lawsuits...? I think that's a mission mismatch.
• But, better yet, isn't it overdue that these groups worked together and ALL participated in urging their members to apply for CC... collecting the records... and filing an action as co-plaintiffs? The Wrenn decision in DC is sitting out there... like a shining beacon, people. What's the paralysis all about? 

Were these groups all approached about this idea initially? Did they beg off? Or did you think they weren't a good fit... and not approach them at all? Just curious.

Personally, instead of all the sobbing and wailing I see on here... I'd rather see some definitive action being put into place. Again, it may be time to revisit that idea!

 

[JohnnyB 4,322]

The ONLY WAY we will get CCW in the PRNJ now is via the Feds. Apply to be denied was to point out that NJ was not granting CCW permits. At this point in time, it a well known fact that NJ does not grant permits so that point is moot at this time.

With Murphy in and the entire government in Dem control, nothing good will happen via this state for at least the next 4 years. All our hopes lie with The Federal Courts, SCOTUS or Congress.

We need a coalition of ALL of the NJ 2A groups to pool their talent and efforts to bring good Federal cases to the courts and hopefully have them taken up and decided in our favor.