Defensive handgun ammo

[Upfitter21 7]

Hey everyone, my father is getting his retired LEO CC qualification soon and will start carrying again.  Sadly NJ restricts even retired LEOs to not be able to carry JHP/HP.  For now I told him to just go with Federal 124gr FMJ to qualify and carry with to be safe with, but was wondering what some alternatives were that are also NJ legal and wouldn't cause any troubles.  Also its a G26 Gen 4 he's carrying.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Some here seem to feel that Hornady Critical Duty and defense are GTG and not considered HP ammo in Jersey. It's what I carry when I go to PA or Delaware. Others will chime in on the legality of this ammo in NJ.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

There was a memo to the NJSP from the AFTE that Critical Defense, Federal EFMJ and Corbin PowR Ball are not hollow points. The analysis based on the simple fact that there is no hollow cavity in the nose of the bullet.

That definition may have been thrown into doubt by the ruling in the Aitken case that any bullet that deforms on impact (paraphrase).is considered a dum-dum.

I'd say that the individual outcome of any case based on the hollow point/dum dum statute is dependent on the judge, the prosecutor and the quality of your defense attorney .

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Griz should chime in here, he's familiar with LEOSA, and I believe the Feds say retired LEO's can carry HP ammo, even in NJ, but wait to see what GRIZ says.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[PK90 3,570]

LEOSA specifically says that no state can restrict ammo type. Mag capacity is what is not addressed.

 

ETA:

www.colddeadhands.com/docs/leosa.pdf

 

[1LtCAP 4,263]

didn't nj change the wording to be "expanding" which would kill critical defense?

[Upfitter21 7]

Well in this case does Fed Law supersede NJ law?  Called NJSP Firearms and they stated that the law states that even Retired LEOs cannot carry HP ammo.

[tony357 386]

HORNADY.

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

3 hours ago, Upfitter21 said:

Well in this case does Fed Law supersede NJ law?  Called NJSP Firearms and they stated that the law states that even Retired LEOs cannot carry HP ammo.

Federal law always supercedes state law.  State law can be more restrictive but not contrary to Federal law.  The Federal government itself is not subject to state or local jurisdiction.

LEOSA starts out saying "notwithstanding any state or local law" (paraphrasing).  That means the only state laws that count are the ones we say do.  The only state laws mentioned are those restrictions carry on property and in buildings owned by the state or local government or restrictions put on by private property owners.

LEOSA specifically addresses it's okay to carry hollow points under LEOSA as PK90 stated.  

Some time ago I saw a letter from the NJ AG outlining LEOSA. All seemed well until he said that LEOSA didnt apply to retired LEOs living in NJ and they must get a Retired Police Officer permit ($50 a year to the state).  NJ AG also said no one carrying under LEOSA can carry hollowpoints.  Now IANAL but that pretty much sounds pretty contradictory to me.

So the way I see it if one gets their NJ RPO Permit (the qualification is good for LEOSA, I carry a reduced copy of my qual form in my wallet) and wants to carry hollowpoints you're then carrying under LEOSA not your NJ RPO Permit. Carrying a copy of the qual for is required as LEOSA as you need proof of qualification in the past year of the type of handgun you're carrying.

LEOSA has been around like 15 years or so.  I've known of guys carrying under LEOSA that have been in shooting situations using hollowpoints and not prosecuted for anything.

[Upfitter21 7]

So basically he would be allowed to carry HP/JHP?

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, Upfitter21 said:

So basically he would be allowed to carry HP/JHP?

Under LEOSA he is.  Under NJ State law he's not.

There are several considerations.  One example is if say he has a unintentional discharge carrying hollowpoints and the situation winds up with him being charged with some, even minor, crime. He can be charged with the hollow points then regardless what LEOSA says.  LEOSA doesn't immunize one from criminal law other than carrying.

He has to decide what he wants to abide by.

[MrSurfboard 1]

We are told specifically during our RPO qualifications that Critical Defense ammo is ok to carry