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I just read this article in the SL. I definitely don't like their anti-gun bias (and bias in general), but I was looking for info on a local crime.

I don't know all of the politics involved among the pro-2A groups, although I know that not all play well with others. If this article is at all accurate, this is why nothing positive will ever happen for gun owners in NJ. Not because of the actual law-abiding owners, but because of the egos and childishness of some of the self-proclaimed pro-2A groups.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/10/why_a_gun_rights_advocate_is_sad_guadagnos_giving.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured

 

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For a look inside today's meeting with Kim Guadagno & the member clubs of the ANJR&PC, which was held a full day in advance of the General membership meeting (linked story in the Hit Piece above^^^), please visit CNJFO's facebook page.  CNJFO was there, and so was Anthony Colandro, Scott Bach & Kathy Chatterton from ANJR&PC.  So were dozens more from clubs all over the state.  The NRA-ILA's Christian Ragosta was there & mentioned speaking with Mrs. Peel.  

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Thanks for posting this, GunsRLegal. FYI, I was one of the first to say it was great when Alexander Roubian did a hatchet job on the politician who was indicted for stalking yet (conveniently) didn't think people should be able to buy tasers (that pol was a vile bum that needed to be outed and I thought Roubian did a great job).

And I know some of you on here are big fans of Roubian for situations just like that... but I don't care who his fans are on these forums, I'm going to say this anyway>>> ROUBIAN'S EGO IS OUTTA CONTROL!! This CHILDISH, NONSENSICAL, WHINEY-ASS animus that Roubian feels towards ANJRPC has got to stop!! It's hurting the ENTIRE 2A cause in this state. We are, as the expression goes, "eating our own". If Alex can't stay focused on attacking the OTHER side and feels compelled to attack his own pro2A side, I feel he should be firmly smacked on the back of the head by his own followers.

So, I implore you, if you're a dues-paying member of his group, or if you know him well enough to influence him, for god's sake, PLEASE TELL HIM TO KNOCK IT OFF!! It's really gone too far.. he is stirring up completely unnecessary PR disasters that play right into the hands of the anti-2A crowd. Seriously, I'm starting to wonder, is Roubian a total freaking moron??? I'm so disgusted... I'm almost speechless. :facepalm:

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What a surprise, more Alexander Roubian nonsense. <_< I like some of their results when they're targeting the right people (anti pols), but Whisky Tango Foxtrot? :wacko: Just because NRA/ANJRPC's tactics don't appear to be doing much now doesn't mean that they're working against us. Attack on multiple fronts, it isn't that hard to understand...

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While I agree (to some extent) with the anti-Roubian sentiment, lets not forget that his organization takes completely different approach.  Roubian takes head on approach with picketing, video recordings, silly interviews etc. He calls them direct. ANJRPC and some other organizations will never have as much balls (for lack of better term) as NJ2AS.  And No, ANJRPC will never lend resources or contacts to someone like NJ2AS or SAPPA. They consider themselves to be too polished.  

We wouldn't be in this sad situation if any one particular approach worked. 

In my humble opinion, we need Roubians and SAPPAs as much as we need ANJRPC. So I urge everyone to think before you cancel membership.  I am going to go sit in the corner now. 

Disclaimer: I never met Roubian, not a member and do not own stocks in any of these companies :-) 

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4 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

He should coordinate efforts with ANJRPC instead of attacking them. I'm sure they have considerable resources and contacts that would be beneficial to NJ2AS, if he can keep his ego in check. 

A pit bull like NJ2AS could be a great ally to NRA/ANJRPC, but I'm pretty sure that any possibility of them working together went up in flames last month when Roubian published his Ramsey range exposé on Facebook the night before NJ SAFE Conference. 

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4 hours ago, jackandjill said:

While I agree (to some extent) with the anti-Roubian sentiment, lets not forget that his organization takes completely different approach.  Roubian takes head on approach with picketing, video recordings, silly interviews etc. He calls them direct. ANJRPC and some other organizations will never have as much balls (for lack of better term) as NJ2AS.  And No, ANJRPC will never lend resources or contacts to someone like NJ2AS or SAPPA. They consider themselves to be too polished.  

We wouldn't be in this sad situation if any one particular approach worked. 

In my humble opinion, we need Roubians and SAPPAs as much as we need ANJRPC. So I urge everyone to think before you cancel membership.  I am going to go sit in the corner now. 

Disclaimer: I never met Roubian, not a member and do not own stocks in any of these companies :-) 

I've thought (and posted the sentiment here more than once) that the more aggressive approach used by NJ2AS absolutely serves a purpose! I agree with you on that.

Where I disagree is when he's turning it against other 2A groups - in a way where he's just becoming a stooge of the anti's. I'm sorry, but that's just D-U-M-B. I'm starting to suspect his work has become more about him feeding his own ego than about pro-2A activity.

That's a common downfall of non-profits - people go into it for all the right reasons, but then they get caught up in their own little 15 minutes of fame and they get so addicted to that they start to seek out attention for their own self-aggrandizement. These latest couple of stunts -- the Facebook posting mattm754 just referenced, and this latest STUPID, STUPID interview... are, I suspect, perfect examples of that. Does Roubian know it's not actually about HIM? I kind of doubt it. The NJ2AS membership needs to remind him. I'm not a member... if I were, I would have downloaded on him already.

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I agree with Mrs. Peel 100%. I'm all for fighting an issue from different fronts, but not this way. Use different tactics, but you don't attack the others. It's just stupid and counter-productive.

From the outside it seems to be an ego problem with Roubian and he really needs to be controlled (or muzzled). I'm not a member of his group so I can't do it, but hopefully his members can help.

To quote mothers of children who fight and break things: "And this is why we can't have nice things!"

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On 10/14/2017 at 9:35 PM, sota said:

take it that would be a "no" ?

Let me say that I have not been pleased with how close NJ2AS has become with SAF/CCRKBA/Gottlieb...

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Back in the late 80's and early 90's, the SAF decided they were going to buy some radio stations to "get their message out".  Not much really changed, except Alan Gottlieb was now the owner or president (I forget which) of these radio stations.  I then looked into their financials, and found Alan Gottlieb owns the company that does all the mailings, too.

I haven't given since.  I got tired of making Alan Gottlieb rich. 

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5 hours ago, W2MC said:

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, the SAF decided they were going to buy some radio stations to "get their message out".  Not much really changed, except Alan Gottlieb was now the owner or president (I forget which) of these radio stations.  I then looked into their financials, and found Alan Gottlieb owns the company that does all the mailings, too.

I haven't given since.  I got tired of making Alan Gottlieb rich. 

But we only have two choices: (1) make Gottleib rich and win some 2A ground in the courts or (2) Keep Gottleib poor and don't win that ground in the courts.

I don't have a third option so I'm going to continue to contribute.

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Ryan,

         I used to belong to and support the S.A.F.  I like what they do but not so much how they do it. The called my house and inundated me with junk snail mail and emails to the point where I had to end it. Besides the NRA, I have decided to focus on more NJ groups like Rosey's CNJFO.

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ANJRPC is worthy of a lot of contempt. For my entire history as a gun owner, they have either sat by silently, played fudd turning their backs on non-hunters, or demonstrated they exist in the mold of pre-1994 NRA leadership where they at best apply lube sparingly to the legislation coming at you. 

The NRA-ILA is largely absent and counters the notion that they do nothing in NJ by pointing at the ANJRPC and say they are your state NRA affiliated org. That's either a sign of incredible stupidity, or just underlines how much they have abandoned the state. If it weren't for their federal presence, and the fact that a national org they seem to have moved away from the stance of constant capitulation to fighting the fight, they wouldn't see dime one of my money. 

Look at the Coalition of NJ sportsmen. Started good with legal challenges to the magazine ban and AWB, turned into a collection of fudds ready to throw you under the bus.

Watched the New Jersey Coalition for self defense turn into an ego-based circle jerk from beginnings where it seemed to get the notion that we need to lobby in a manner other than the ANJRPC has been doing. 

NJ2AS might be banging their head against a wall, but at least you can hear them doing it. 

SAF might not be ideal, they are very lawyerly and sometimes that means you make judgments based on the legal system and not what is right. You wind up resembling lawyer jokes, but that's how it works. I've seen them show up and ledn their voice to my side of the argument IN NJ more than I have seen ANJRPC or the NRA do it. Which is beyond sad. 

The jury is still out on the CNJFO. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, mostly because Smokin .50 is involved and I know he's not looking to sit around with his thumb up his butt for notoriety and he doesn't want to throw anyone under the bus.  They also have active events going on and if they are mired in chaos in their inception, they are keeping it from the general populace, which indicates they have something resembling functioning leadership. They also seem to be involved in the ANJRPC and NRA behaving at a level above where they are indiscernible from  moss growing on a tree. 

All of the above, in NJ, are/have been incestuous in terms of leadership and/or membership.  There's going to be resentment and axes to grind. Hopefully folks work it all out and we wind up with something functioning. Don't expect differences of opinion to go away though. It's also likely that you will wind up with an NRA like org and a GOA like org playing good cop bad cop. 

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What, if anything, measurable has NRA/ANJRPC done for NJ residents? Alex has had more results and exposure in 4 years than they have had in 20 years. I don't always agree with his methods, but I sure damn agree with his results. At least he is on the offensive, while I see NRA/ANJRPC always being on the defensive and being reactive instead of proactive. And I don't buy the "behind the scenes things are happening" BS either. 

S. 

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On 10/15/2017 at 9:29 PM, Mrs. Peel said:

I've thought (and posted the sentiment here more than once) that the more aggressive approach used by NJ2AS absolutely serves a purpose! I agree with you on that.

Where I disagree is when he's turning it against other 2A groups - in a way where he's just becoming a stooge of the anti's. I'm sorry, but that's just D-U-M-B. I'm starting to suspect his work has become more about him feeding his own ego than about pro-2A activity.

That's a common downfall of non-profits - people go into it for all the right reasons, but then they get caught up in their own little 15 minutes of fame and they get so addicted to that they start to seek out attention for their own self-aggrandizement. These latest couple of stunts -- the Facebook posting mattm754 just referenced, and this latest STUPID, STUPID interview... are, I suspect, perfect examples of that. Does Roubian know it's not actually about HIM? I kind of doubt it. The NJ2AS membership needs to remind him. I'm not a member... if I were, I would have downloaded on him already.

^^^THIS^^^

It's been a long two weeks since Mrs. Peel's common sense was posted.  Maintaining a 24 hour news cycle on social media is a tasking job, with most of my time spent away from here on Facebook.  Earlier this week Melissa Gokmogol was harassed out in RTSP's parking lot by a FORMER member of NJ2AS who identified himself as a member in good standing.  A police report was made at the scene and that's why I have been so busy on Facebook of late & not HERE.  Melissa's safety came first.  This dude that verbally abused her is known to be a loose cannon, but NOT a stalker (thank the Lord!).  Multiple members of the former leadership team (almost ALL of them) of NJ2AS, all of whom are my Facebook friends, assisted me with identifying the actor & informing Ms. Gokmogol that the actor wasn't a stalker, that she could resume her phone banking activities and she no longer needed to fear for her safety.  I publicly thanked all of them on my Facebook page.

As I type this members of ANJR&PC and CNJFO together with the NRA-ILA and volunteers all over the state are phone banking & knocking on doors going door to door.  There is so much to tell I barely have time to breathe.  To date, Mrs. Peel is the only member of this forum besides myself to call Christian Ragosta to find out the truth.  So kudos to her for getting INVOLVED, finding out the 5-W's of Who, What, Where, When and Why and then asking HOW to get involved PLUS actually showing-up to a phone bank session!

Some on this forum suffer from as I call it, "The Mushroom Complex".  It's a NJ specialty.  See to be a mushroom means that you're kept in the dark & fed BULLSHIT so as to fester your growth of animosity, anger towards the NRA & ANJR&PC, and the resulting apathy that's an obvious offshoot.  NJ gun owners that are mushrooms are perfectly happy to run with 10% correct information & make-up the other 90% all on their own through pure speculation & supposition.  It's a Jersey THANG, lol!  Yes, Virginia there are things going on behind closed doors to get things to come to fruition.  Kim showing up to a meeting of gun owners two days in a row didn't just happen, it had to be MADE TO HAPPEN.  That took MONTHS worth of COMMUNICATION!  And w/o the other side knowing WTF was going to happen!   

Lots of things happen w/o the spotlight of agitation, loose cannons running a muck at town council & planning board meetings w/o first asking the proposed business and/or land owners if they're needed (the Ramsey Range, which will now be a prep center for 7 car dealerships along the Rt. 17 corridor), and LOTS of other incidents that have a central theme of egomania supported by a deliberate boycott of every organized attempt to rally gun owners to get out the vote!  The total tonnage of what Anthony, Scott & I know would sink a Battleship!  It won't do any good to air dirty laundry HERE in public (the other side reads this public forum), but suffice to say if any of you know me, you know I speak the truth and want everyone to work together to get Kim Guadagno elected as NJ's next Governor!  That means we ALREADY ARE WORKING TOGETHER, well, at least MOST of us are!

"Infighting" requires both sides to FIGHT, right?  There's only ONE individual creating havoc.  Everybody else is ON BOARD: 

NRA

NRA-ILA

ANJR&PC + all of its' Member Clubs throughout the entire state

CNJFO

NJ State Federation of Sportsmens Clubs

NJOA

Second Amendment Women's Gun Club

One.  Individual.  Does he speak for you?  Any of you can call for an election and run for President.......

That all being said, I have to tear myself away so I can help Kim get elected!

Rosey

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

Earlier this week Melissa Gokmogol was harassed out in RTSP's parking lot by a FORMER member of NJ2AS who identified himself as a member in good standing.  A police report was made at the scene and that's why I have been so busy on Facebook of late & not HERE.  Melissa's safety came first.  This dude that verbally abused her is known to be a loose cannon, but NOT a stalker (thank the Lord!).  Multiple members of the former leadership team (almost ALL of them) of NJ2AS, all of whom are my Facebook friends, assisted me with identifying the actor & informing Ms. Gokmogol that the actor wasn't a stalker, that she could resume her phone banking activities and she no longer needed to fear for her safety.  I publicly thanked all of them on my Facebook page.

That is so appalling, I'm at a loss for words. Not to mention...why on earth? What purpose could that possibly serve? :facepalm:

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1 minute ago, Zeke said:

Careful..

3 sides to the triangle of truth

I agree. But, I've met her...and honestly? I'm a decent judge of character... and she doesn't strike me as the type who's going to get ornery with someone in a parking lot. (Particularly not with her small stature). Also, to clarify --- I don't see that particular situation as any reflection on Alex or NJ2AS either --- the guy's a former NJ2AS member after all ---- and besides, some people are quite capable of behaving badly all on their own.

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3 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I agree. But, I've met her...and honestly? I'm a decent judge of character... and she doesn't strike me as the type who's going to get ornery with someone in a parking lot. (Particularly not with her small stature). Also, to clarify --- I don't see that particular situation as any reflection on Alex or NJ2AS either --- the guy's a former NJ2AS member after all ---- and besides, some people are quite capable of behaving badly all on their own.

I’ve met her also. I’m not saying anything bout her

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3 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I agree. But, I've met her...and honestly? I'm a decent judge of character... and she doesn't strike me as the type who's going to get ornery with someone in a parking lot. (Particularly not with her small stature). Also, to clarify --- I don't see that particular situation as any reflection on Alex or NJ2AS either --- the guy's a former NJ2AS member after all ---- and besides, some people are quite capable of behaving badly all on their own.

^^^THIS!^^^

At 4' & change, she's not hard to push around physically if that is your goal.  The actor was reacting to stimuli much like throwing a lit match onto loose black powder.  Sometimes weak-minded folks that are told what to think think what they're told and then get upset about it all.  Like all of the stories of collusion, conspiracy, etc. that we were all treated to since the day prior to NJSAFECON.  Even if what they're told isn't based in facts....  It starts with "The NRA isn't in NJ", "The NRA doesn't care about NJ", "All the NRA wants is my money" and other similar misstatements.  I say misstatements since the NRA & a bunch of volunteers were out door-knockin' TODAY gettin' their asses soakin' wet doin' it :)  

Any Nutjob can say they're a member of ANY group and behave badly at a public function or event.  It's not a reflection on the group itself or its' current leadership since the guy is a FORMER member.  All of the adults in the room know this.  The groups' membership records were checked immediately after my inquiry (without my asking btw), and although the computer records go back three years, this guy isn't on them.  Former NJ2AS leadership team members remembered him & gave their opinions of his make-up, mental state & character during the time he was a member.  None of them had anything glowing to say about this guy, 'cept that he seemed like a nice guy until he got riled.  They also provided his phone number that was published on the web.  They all painted a picture of a guy with no off switch that gets very passionate about his beliefs and calls anyone who disagrees with those beliefs a "Brown Shirt" (Nazi).  Current NJ2AS members also assisted us in this matter, and at least one of them is both a CNJFO member & friend of both myself & Alexander in addition to being a member of NJ2AS.  Everybody from both organizations handled themselves with the utmost professionalism & respect for each other in search for the truth, and I'm very grateful for all their help.  Melissa's safety came first.  There isn't any triangle here, just the facts, Joe Friday style.

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