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blueraptor

26 FID question

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i was seen by a Physician assistant for my insomnia/anxiety was prescribed some medications to help me sleep better. can i put no? since technically shes not a doctor

 26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence

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A P.A. is acting for the physician so that does not matter in my opinion, you were seen by a doctor. I would also not call insomnia or mild anxiety necessarily a psychological or psychiatric condition. I would answer NO and go on with your life.

Others will chime in but I would say NOT to overthink question 26!

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PA's can only practice in NJ under the auspices of a licensed physician.They often make entries into the patient's chart, which are normally reviewed by a physician who may make an additional comment or diagnosis.  The chart may contain a diagnosis under what is known as DMS V which is the standard manual for mental or psychiatric diagnosis. However, it may not.  You really need to get a copy of the medical record to see if a diagnosis of a mental or psychiatric condition was made. Usually, a physician who calls in a prescription documents your chart. Insomnia, in and of itself is not regarded as a DMS psychiatric condition, but anxiety can be depending on its presentation. You do not indicate here what medication you were given and should not post the answer in a public forum anyway. You should be aware that even if, after reviewing your chart, you need to make a disclosure, that is not the end of the matter and usually a letter from your physician may be all that is required. As you can see, there is no simple answer to your question without more data.

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1 hour ago, blueraptor said:

i was seen by a Physician assistant for my insomnia/anxiety was prescribed some medications to help me sleep better. can i put no? since technically shes not a doctor

 26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence

Insomnia/anxiety is not a psychiatric condition.  Calm down, take your xanex, get a good night's sleep and stop over thinking this.  The correct answer is "NO".  I speak from experience. 

39 minutes ago, blueraptor said:

 

is it better to say yes and  ask a doctor's letter from the same PA and submit it with my application?

HELL NO!

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As someone who has had experience with Q#26, I don't think your situation rises to the  level that would reasonably warrant answering Yes.

My sense is a No answer would be defensible should it ever be questioned in the future.  You must of course believe you are being truthful on the form. 

IANAL

 

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I would use the plain meaning of words, it said were you "treated or observed by a DOCTOR"  - you were not, you did not see a DOCTOR.  You have grounds to stand on as you answered no to specifically what they ASKED.

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Brings to mind something someone once told me regarding legal proceedings: “Don’t answer a question that hasn’t been asked”. 

A few other considerations related to Q#26 in general:

- it is a felony to falsify your responses. So you must answer truthfully and be confident you can defend your answers should they ever be questioned in the future. (I.e. if you get caught lying, you are screwed.)

- once you answer “Yes”, you must always answer “Yes” in order to be consistent with your prior submissions. In my case, I have answered”Yes” on two subsequent P2P applictions and included a letter stating  that I answered Yes in order to be consistent with my earlier applications. In that letter, I also affirmed(truthfully) that there has been no further treatment bla bla bla.  These last two applications were routinely  processed and approved without any issues.

Hope this  helps. And of course IANAL 

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On 10/16/2017 at 7:19 PM, blueraptor said:

 

is it better to say yes and  ask a doctor's letter from the same PA and submit it with my application?

That's exactly what I did. I kept a copy of the letter and resubmit it whenever I apply for a P2P. Hasn't been a problem for me at all.

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At work, we have three managers who oversee 10 site supervisors who oversee roughly 75 employees.  We were down to only one manager for a while - me.  I was swamped, overwhelmed, and not sleeping well.  I was prescribed something to help me sleep.  I was some anxiety med I can't remember the name of.  I took it for about a month - maybe 6 weeks.  It helped me over the hump until the open positions were filled.

I don't consider myself to have been treated for a psychiatric condition.  I was stressed and not sleeping well - no disorder - no condition.

I answer "No". 

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29 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said:

At work, we have three managers who oversee 10 site supervisors who oversee roughly 75 employees.  We were down to only one manager for a while - me.  I was swamped, overwhelmed, and not sleeping well.  I was prescribed something to help me sleep.  I was some anxiety med I can't remember the name of.  I took it for about a month - maybe 6 weeks.  It helped me over the hump until the open positions were filled.

I don't consider myself to have been treated for a psychiatric condition.  I was stressed and not sleeping well - no disorder - no condition.

I answer "No". 

im just worried if i answer "no" , its going to pop out in the mental background check

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4 hours ago, blueraptor said:

im just worried if i answer "no" , its going to pop out in the mental background check

My doctor once prescribed a medication to help me loose weight.  I forget the name of that one too but it was also used to treat ADHD. Somebody discovered that appetite suppression was a side effect so it was also used for that.  I asked if it would ever show up on a mental health background check that I had been prescribed a med used for ADHD.  My doctor is a big gun guy too so he knew why I was asking.  He said that it wasn't going to be reported to anyone and it wouldn't ever show up on any background check.  

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I had a very similar issue. Me and my fiancee went to see a psychologist/therapist guy to discuss some issues between us. There was no medication involved, and no mental condition. Just some marital/girlfriend-boyfriend issues. I wasn't sure if this counted as a yes or no for question #26. Many people advised me to do a Nancy Reagan and just say no. But none of the people who advised me to do this were lawyers. They just figured that I could say no. But the truth is, if you put something they consider false on the application, that is considered a crime. And the other fact is, I don't know what information the police do and don't have access to. Remember that they may not just do a routine check on a computer. The application is given to detectives, who might be able to dig deeper than that. And remember that you also sign a waiver allowing them to look into your mental health records. Does that include seeing a therapist? I don't know and I don't want to take the chance.

A guy at a gun store told me, just ask the cop that you hand the application to whether you should put yes or no based on your situation. That is a good idea since I'd rather be honest and upfront than turn in an application with a "no" on Question 26, then toss and turn at night wondering if they are going to find anything out and accuse me of lying. So when I went to turn in the application, I told the cop exactly what my situation was. He said I would need to bring a letter from the shrink saying that he does not see any problem with me having a firearm and that I'm safe, etc.

Well, the problem is, the shrink we saw is the most anti-gun guy on the planet, and he made clear that under no circumstances would he ever in any way whatsoever ever write such a letter that would make it possible for me to get a gun, no how, in no way, absolutely not.

So I called three different lawyers. Two of them said I should put yes on #26, and that I would need to pay to have myself evaluated by an independent psychologist to make sure I am not too deranged to have a firearm. The third said I would probably have to put yes but that if I hired him he would review with me the exact circumstances and then determine if I should put yes or no.

So this is the advice from three different gun lawyers in NJ, to a person who has even less reason to put yes than you do. So now I'm waiting until I have enough money to hire one of these lawyers and to get the psychological evaluation that I will need. Still no gun as of this writing...

Many who aren't lawyers will advise you to put "no," but remember that's not legal advice, and you're on your own if they happen to be wrong and if the cops find out something you didn't tell them about...

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6 hours ago, Dr. Goodshot said:

I had a very similar issue. Me and my fiancee went to see a psychologist/therapist guy to discuss some issues between us. There was no medication involved, and no mental condition. Just some marital/girlfriend-boyfriend issues. I wasn't sure if this counted as a yes or no for question #26. Many people advised me to do a Nancy Reagan and just say no. But none of the people who advised me to do this were lawyers. They just figured that I could say no. But the truth is, if you put something they consider false on the application, that is considered a crime. And the other fact is, I don't know what information the police do and don't have access to. Remember that they may not just do a routine check on a computer. The application is given to detectives, who might be able to dig deeper than that. And remember that you also sign a waiver allowing them to look into your mental health records. Does that include seeing a therapist? I don't know and I don't want to take the chance.

A guy at a gun store told me, just ask the cop that you hand the application to whether you should put yes or no based on your situation. That is a good idea since I'd rather be honest and upfront than turn in an application with a "no" on Question 26, then toss and turn at night wondering if they are going to find anything out and accuse me of lying. So when I went to turn in the application, I told the cop exactly what my situation was. He said I would need to bring a letter from the shrink saying that he does not see any problem with me having a firearm and that I'm safe, etc.

Well, the problem is, the shrink we saw is the most anti-gun guy on the planet, and he made clear that under no circumstances would he ever in any way whatsoever ever write such a letter that would make it possible for me to get a gun, no how, in no way, absolutely not.

So I called three different lawyers. Two of them said I should put yes on #26, and that I would need to pay to have myself evaluated by an independent psychologist to make sure I am not too deranged to have a firearm. The third said I would probably have to put yes but that if I hired him he would review with me the exact circumstances and then determine if I should put yes or no.

So this is the advice from three different gun lawyers in NJ, to a person who has even less reason to put yes than you do. So now I'm waiting until I have enough money to hire one of these lawyers and to get the psychological evaluation that I will need. Still no gun as of this writing...

Many who aren't lawyers will advise you to put "no," but remember that's not legal advice, and you're on your own if they happen to be wrong and if the cops find out something you didn't tell them about...

"(26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental
institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location
of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence."

 

If you weren't examined for a mental condition then you should have put "No".

Couples counseling is not a mental condition.

Unless there's something else to your story that you're not telling us I'm baffled as to why you would even think about answering "Yes".

Now that you've opened the can of worms you have to deal with it.

 

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2 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

"(26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental
institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location
of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence."

 

If you weren't examined for a mental condition then you should have put "No".

Couples counseling is not a mental condition.

Unless there's something else to your story that you're not telling us I'm baffled as to why you would even think about answering "Yes".

Now that you've opened the can of worms you have to deal with it.

 

Well, this lawyer's website put the fear of Jesus in me. Look what he says about people whose situations are similar to mine and the OP's.

https://njgunpermitattorney.com/what-are-your-chances-of-getting-denied/

Is he just trying to drum up business by scaring the hell out of me? Maybe I could just put no and I'd be fine, but how can I really know??

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9 hours ago, Dr. Goodshot said:

Well, this lawyer's website put the fear of Jesus in me. Look what he says about people whose situations are similar to mine and the OP's.

https://njgunpermitattorney.com/what-are-your-chances-of-getting-denied/

Is he just trying to drum up business by scaring the hell out of me? Maybe I could just put no and I'd be fine, but how can I really know??

Unless there's something you're not telling us, there's noting at that link that remotely applies to you what you've posted.

Were you forced to go to counseling by the courts?

Were the police involved in a domestic dispute that ended in counseling?

Couples counseling is not a mental condition.

 

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Just be careful with meds.  There are some meds being prescribed as "sleep aids" (secondary function) but have a primary function as a "psychological/mental health" drug.  I would avoid those meds like the Plague, and any doctor that offers to prescribe them. :nono:

As for the OP's question, I'd say they'd be still qualified to say "No" to Q26, but "officially," I'd have them verify with a lawyer.

 

 

  

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4 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Unless there's something you're not telling us, there's noting at that link that remotely applies to you what you've posted.

Were you forced to go to counseling by the courts?

Were the police involved in a domestic dispute that ended in counseling?

Couples counseling is not a mental condition.

 

No, sir, there's nothing other than what I've described. There were no courts or cops involved...

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Goodshot said:

No, sir, there's nothing other than what I've described. There were no courts or cops involved...

Glad to hear it.  Sounds like an easy one to clear up IMO.

I would have answered "no" with a clean conscience if I was in your situation, but that's just me.

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