Howard

Magazine capacity IDEA

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It looks all but certain the Dems in Trenton will ban standard capacity (15 round neutered capacity to us) magazines in favor of limited capacity 10 round magazines.  What about we politely write our assembly and senate reps and tell then that we don't agree with this but understand their goals and suggest a compromise.  Allow standard capacity, and even 140mm and 170mm magazines BUT restrict them like handguns so they are only allowed in exempt areas (home, range and business) and with reasonable deviation during travel.  Yea I know it is a compromise, but something is better than nothing which unfortunately is where this is headed.

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You're thinking like a polite, reasonable person... I don't think those qualities will be appreciated or shared by Murphy and Weinberg. They DON'T CARE what gun owners think is "reasonable". They don't care to "compromise". They'll do what they want, no matter how stupid and this will be fought in the courts... and it will be a long wait.

And in the meantime, each gun owner needs to decide for himself (or herself) what their individual level of compliance or non-compliance will be. 

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No compromise. Shall not Be Infringed Means just that. Compromise says you are ok with the Nazis telling you how to exercise your God Given Rights.

 

To the Murphy People please sign law taking away my 15 round magazines that I paid extra for. No grandfathering and no compensation. While your at it make the limit 3 rounds and apply it to all firearms semis, bolt action, lever action, pump action, and revolvers. Wouldn't want anyone skirting the ban and firing their "military weapons of death" without reloading. It's genius 3 round limit will in fact be a defacto ban on many firearms. Murphy will be The Man to all the Child Molesters in Hollywood and Snowflakes Everywhere.

 

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4 hours ago, Howard said:

It looks all but certain the Dems in Trenton will ban standard capacity (15 round neutered capacity to us) magazines in favor of limited capacity 10 round magazines.  What about we politely write our assembly and senate reps and tell then that we don't agree with this but understand their goals and suggest a compromise.  Allow standard capacity, and even 140mm and 170mm magazines BUT restrict them like handguns so they are only allowed in exempt areas (home, range and business) and with reasonable deviation during travel.  Yea I know it is a compromise, but something is better than nothing which unfortunately is where this is headed.

That would be a resounding no from me.

You are trying to cut a deal with the wolves just to eat one toe. They will eat that toe, and the next, and the next  and none the other little piggies will make it to the market. And we'll be crying wee wee wee wee all the way to single shot guns. 

No, don't even entertain that idea. Look at the history of gun control since 1934 and that's a case study on compromising.

 

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a right restricted is a right denied.

a right delayed is a right denied.

 

if there is to be compromise, it is time for THEM to give. we have given throughout the last 50+ years, with NOTHING in return.

 

otherwise......no compromise.

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2 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

a right restricted is a right denied.

a right delayed is a right denied.

 

if there is to be compromise, it is time for THEM to give. we have given throughout the last 50+ years, with NOTHING in return.

 

otherwise......no compromise.

Please think about what you are saying. Compromise requires that 2 parties each have something to give and gain by negotiation. Webster says compromise is  " settlement of differences by arbitration or by consent reached by mutual concessions"

We have absolutely no bargaining power here. They make the rules, we follow the rules or become Felons. It's that simple!

What do we have to offer that they can't just take from us? There is no compromise! They make the rules and we obey the laws or flaunt them at our own risk! There is NO bargaining with them here! Tell them how you won't comply and your house would be the first one to be raided! There is NOTHING to be gained here!

My personal advice FWIW is to keep quiet, stay in the background and comply or not, but keep that to yourself. When the AR-15 is banned here, don't take it to to the range as a fuck you to Murphy as you will only be screwing yourself! This will work itself out on the FEDERAL level. We need to shut up, eat some shit for a while and in the end we will be victorious!

Anthony Colandro at "Gun For Hire" is already talking about going to Trenton in January to fight all these new anti gun bills. What good will any of that do now when the same arguments were made with a Republican Governor and never worked? None whatsoever! What we do need is for all the pro2A groups to get together and pool their resources, hire great lawyers and sue this state for every one of our rights they violate! Unfortunately, Anthony Colandro, who I have much respect for, literally said Fuck You to Alex and NJ2AS and vowed to never sit down with or work with them as long as Alex is at the helm! So much for the 2A groups coming together!  At least for ANJRPC and NJ2AS!

We need more than ever to work together now and stop eating our own!

 

 

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Forget NJ2AS no one should waste any resources there. Like it or not ANJRPC is our link to the NRA. NRA and SAF have the funding. We need their help. ANJRCP needs to be on board with filing multiple lawsuits with the help of the National Groups. If not we need a new group that will.

 

As far as not complying that is exactly what happened in Colorado. No one complied and no one enforced. Rendering the laws useless.

 

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11 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Forget NJ2AS no one should waste any resources there. Like it or not ANJRPC is our link to the NRA. NRA and SAF have the funding. We need their help. ANJRCP needs to be on board with filing multiple lawsuits with the help of the National Groups. If not we need a new group that will.

 

As far as not complying that is exactly what happened in Colorado. No one complied and no one enforced. Rendering the laws useless.

 

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We are in full agreement here! ANJRPC is already linked up with the NRA and CNJFO and quite possibly others! We need money, strong lawyers and good lawsuits to win this!

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19 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Please think about what you are saying. Compromise requires that 2 parties each have something to give and gain by negotiation. Webster says compromise is  " settlement of differences by arbitration or by consent reached by mutual concessions"

We have absolutely no bargaining power here. They make the rules, we follow the rules or become Felons. It's that simple!

What do we have to offer that they can't just take from us? There is no compromise! They make the rules and we obey the laws or flaunt them at our own risk! There is NO bargaining with them here! Tell them how you won't comply and your house would be the first one to be raided! There is NOTHING to be gained here!

My personal advice FWIW is to keep quiet, stay in the background and comply or not, but keep that to yourself. When the AR-15 is banned here, don't take it to to the range as a fuck you to Murphy as you will only be screwing yourself! This will work itself out on the FEDERAL level. We need to shut up, eat some shit for a while and in the end we will be victorious!

Anthony Colandro at "Gun For Hire" is already talking about going to Trenton in January to fight all these new anti gun bills. What good will any of that do now when the same arguments were made with a Republican Governor and never worked? None whatsoever! What we do need is for all the pro2A groups to get together and pool their resources, hire great lawyers and sue this state for every one of our rights they violate! Unfortunately, Anthony Colandro, who I have much respect for, literally said Fuck You to Alex and NJ2AS and vowed to never sit down with or work with them as long as Alex is at the helm! So much for the 2A groups coming together!  At least for ANJRPC and NJ2AS!

We need more than ever to work together now and stop eating our own!

 

 

i'm not saying i'm gonna be a dumbass. i do that in plenty of ways that won't land me in the greybar motel. i'm not gonna land myself there. but every time these fuckers talk compromise, we give, they take and it's called compromise. it's exactly how we got into the mess in the first place.

 

 what did alex do to cause anthony to tell him to fuck off?

Just now, JohnnyB said:

We are in full agreement here! ANJRPC is already linked up with CNJFO and quite possibly others! We need money, strong lawyers and good lawsuits to win this!

from OUTSIDE of nj.

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12 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

 what did alex do to cause anthony to tell him to fuck off?

 

Alex and NJ2AS along with myself and others, including her immediate family pissed Sweeney off by protesting Carol Bowne's death in front of his house! Anthony seems to think that Sweeney, once rated "A" by the NRA prior to Sandy Hook, will be a force against Murphy since Murphy stole the Governorship from him.

Sweeney has publicly stated his disdain for Alex and NJ2AS and Anthony thinks he can work with Sweeney to prevent some gun bills from ever being voted on. Your guess is good as mine as to how this will go!

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Alex and NJ2AS along with myself pissed Sweeney off by protesting Carol Bowne's death in front of his house! Anthony seems to think that Sweeney, once rated "A" by the NRA will be a force against Murphy since Murphy stole the Governorship from him.

Sweeney has publicly stated his disdain for Alex and NJ2AS and Anthony thinks he can work with Sweeney to prevent some gun bills from ever being voted on. Your guess is good as mine as to how this will go!

not to sound like a dick.....but isn't that exactly why some on this forum have given bob v  a bunch of shit?

 

 that said......sweeny's in it for his own dam self. if it doesn't serve him well, he won't do it.

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I agree with you but I can't speak for Anthony Colandro. Perhaps he may know something we don't! I don't see Sweeney as an ally in any way, shape or form. But that's just my opinion!

Bob V. is a piece of shit FUDD. He was against CCW for NJ residents from the start! And he was our rep for the NRA. Go figure!

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I agree with you but I can't speak for Anthony Colandro. Perhaps he may know something we don't! I don't see Sweeney as an ally in any way, shape or form. But that's just my opinion!

Bob V. is a piece of shit FUDD. He was against CCW for NJ residents from the start! And he was our rep for the NRA. Go figure!

 

You are talking about Bob Viden correct? Bob's Little Sport Shop? If so I've seen some stupid comments quoted to him in articles. Also saw he was running for a NRA National Position. Please someone tell me he lost.

 

Sweeney is a Hail Mary. Not only did Murphy buy the governorship from him, but the NJEA turned on him. He doesn't seem to have any national ambitions, so he doesn't need to get in lockstep. As long as his hatred for Murphy is strong, he could table bills.

 

I would like to see proof Sweeney ever had an NRA A Rating. The NRA doesn't even have a NJ chapter except through the ANJRPC. I find it hard to believe the NRA would rate NJ Politicians period, and if they did that any NJ Dem would have receive an A.

 

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9 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Well I certainly hope this Bob V. guy is gone.

Sweeney is a Hail Mary. Not only did Murphy buy the governorship from him, but the NJEA turned on him. He doesn't seem to have any national ambitions, so he doesn't need to get in lockstep. As long as his hatred for Murphy is strong, he could table bills.

I would like to see proof Sweeney ever had an NRA A Rating. The NRA doesn't even have a NJ chapter except through the ANJRPC. I find it hard to believe the NRA would rate NJ Politicians period, and if they did that any NJ Dem would have receive an A.

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Bob V is alive and well holding several official positions in  ANJRPC. He is a regional VP and co-chairs the Legislative Action  committee with Scott Bach who is the Excecutive Dir of ANJRPC.

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Bob V is alive and well holding several official positions in  ANJRPC. He is a regional VP and co-chairs the Legislative Action  committee with Scott Bach who is the Excecutive Dir of ANJRPC.

And he is against NJ CCW and for Extensive Background Checks? If so that right there explains our problems in NJ. 

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I stand corrected on Sweeney he once had an A Rating by the NRA

 

He also once said

 

"as long as I am Senate President you can rest assured that not a single Anti Gun Bill will reach the floor for debate"

 

 

https://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/nj-senate-president-sweeney-goes-anti-gun-kool-aid-drinker-on-twitter/

 

 

Maybe now that his Governor hopes are dashed he will go back to his original promises, especially if it means screwing Murphy.

 

 

 

 

 

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i've never heard bob, or anyone in his shop say anything about more extensive background checks. they all seem to agree that what we go through here is nuts. i can't say anything bad about the guy, 'cause those guys have always been great to me and my mother. in fact, those guys went a loonngg way towards helping her overcome her fear/hatred of guns anfd those that own them.

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i've never heard bob, or anyone in his shop say anything about more extensive background checks. they all seem to agree that what we go through here is nuts. i can't say anything bad about the guy, 'cause those guys have always been great to me and my mother. in fact, those guys went a loonngg way towards helping her overcome her fear/hatred of guns anfd those that own them.

Not more but thinks the current system is great. Viden said that the background checks are extremely in-depth, noting one of his customers always gets delayed during his application process due to a 1970 arrest in Germany for a barroom fight he wasn't even involved in.

 

Thats how thorough it is, Viden said. "We think its great".

 

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2013/02/gun_permit_applications_and_sa.html

 

That to me sounds like he is all for putting security ahead of liberty.

 

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”

 

“Liberty and order will never be perfectly safe, until a trespass on the constitutional provisions for either, shall be felt with the same keenness that resents an invasion of the dearest rights.”

 

He is another example of why NJ FFL's should not be the elected leaders of our cause. What they want is contrary to what the Constitution Grants. I bet you Bob like the rest of them would hate to lose the compliance work and transfer fees.

 

Background checks are useless. There are 300+ million guns in America. A criminal or psycho wants a gun they can steal one or buy one on the street. Does anyone believe the full auto AKs gang bangers have were bought legally anywhere in America? Being one goes for $1-2k on the street I can guarantee you they were not purchased legally at any point since the going rate is $14-16k. They are imported with the drug shipments.

 

 

 

 

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Let me tell you my idea of comprimise.

Take all of NJ's restrictive gun laws and just add "in the commission of a crime".  Make NJ a constitutional carry state.  Allow any weapon as long as you meet Federal requirements  (another issue to discuss).  

Caught carrying a weapon in a holdup?  50 years no parole.  Carrying an "assault weapon" while committing a rape?  Crucifixtion!

Possession of a firearm during a burglary?  Staked out in the surf to be eaten by crabs!

I am not concerned about penalties for these or other crimes.  Because I'm not going to commit them!

But the Democrats are not concerned about controlling crime.  They are concerned about controlling the population.  Make them dependent on the government for everything. 

Hitler and Stalin had the same idea.  Now I'm not an advocate of people having chemical or nuclear weapons in their garage as some 2A activists are.  But Democrats have evolved into wanting a complete control of the population.  Far from what JFK would fight for ( the last genuine Democrat in my book).

The examples I listed would achieve what the Democrats say they want.  But not complete control of the population.

 

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10 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

 what did alex do to cause anthony to tell him to fuck off?

I’m sure there’s plenty, but the last nail in the coffin seems to be Alex’s Facebook expose the day before NJSAFE Conference. Alex basically accused NRA/ANJRPC of collusion with certain other ranges (mainly GFH if you read between the lines) to squash the Ramsey range for business reasons. 

I’m honestly surprised that I haven’t read of a pending defamation suit against Alex. I certainly didn’t see any proof to back what he wrote. 

 

As for magazines...attempting to compromise probably won’t work, since they hold all of the power at the state level. Maybe it’s time for NRA/ANJRPC/SAF/every other 2A organization to ready a legal team to sue the state into oblivion?

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I’m sure there’s plenty, but the last nail in the coffin seems to be Alex’s Facebook expose the day before NJSAFE Conference. Alex basically accused NRA/ANJRPC of collusion with certain other ranges (mainly GFH if you read between the lines) to squash the Ramsey range for business reasons. 
I’m honestly surprised that I haven’t read of a pending defamation suit against Alex. I certainly didn’t see any proof to back what he wrote. 
 
As for magazines...attempting to compromise probably won’t work, since they hold all of the power at the state level. Maybe it’s time for NRA/ANJRPC/SAF/every other 2A organization to ready a legal team to sue the state into oblivion?
Filing injunctions and suing the state is the only real solution. It worked in California.

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Interesting situation.  We need to provide support for fighting for our rights and have to pay taxes which funds the fight to take away our rights.
That's exactly what it is. That's what happens when Democrats are voted into power. Just like Abbott District funding forces some who already are paying $10k+ a year in property tax to have to send their children to private schools at the cost of another $15k a year. Paying for private school in Delaware makes sense, but it shouldn't be in NJ.

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9 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Let me tell you my idea of comprimise.

Take all of NJ's restrictive gun laws and just add "in the commission of a crime".  Make NJ a constitutional carry state.  Allow any weapon as long as you meet Federal requirements  (another issue to discuss).  

Caught carrying a weapon in a holdup?  50 years no parole.  Carrying an "assault weapon" while committing a rape?  Crucifixtion!

Possession of a firearm during a burglary?  Staked out in the surf to be eaten by crabs!

I am not concerned about penalties for these or other crimes.  Because I'm not going to commit them!

But the Democrats are not concerned about controlling crime.  They are concerned about controlling the population.  Make them dependent on the government for everything. 

Hitler and Stalin had the same idea.  Now I'm not an advocate of people having chemical or nuclear weapons in their garage as some 2A activists are.  But Democrats have evolved into wanting a complete control of the population.  Far from what JFK would fight for ( the last genuine Democrat in my book).

The examples I listed would achieve what the Democrats say they want.  But not complete control of the population.

 

i like that idea. but we all know that'll never happen here.

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Can someone remind me why there was the effort to go after Sweeney by NJ2AS? IIRC it was a stupid comment he made in regard to Carol Browne. However he actually tabled magazine limit and other Anti bills more than once.


Yes Sweeney went full on Anti after Sandy Hook and I'm guessing that was because of his desire to be governor. However in hindsight it was not a very good idea to go after one one of the few Dems ever rated A by the NRA. I think NJ2AS needs to close the doors and we can help do that by refusing to send them any money. What have they ever really accomplished?


I'm all for the Hail Mary ANJRPC is going to try with Sweeney as long as it does not include any compromise. We have already given up enough. Appeal to his sense of right and wrong and how he used to feel in regard to the Second Amendment.

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17 hours ago, siderman said:

Bob V is alive and well holding several official positions in  ANJRPC. He is a regional VP and co-chairs the Legislative Action  committee with Scott Bach who is the Excecutive Dir of ANJRPC.

That surely is a problem don' ya think?

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19 hours ago, siderman said:

Bob V is alive and well holding several official positions in  ANJRPC. He is a regional VP and co-chairs the Legislative Action  committee with Scott Bach who is the Excecutive Dir of ANJRPC.

Do not confused Bob Viden Sr. with Bob Viden Jr.

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1 hour ago, PK90 said:

Do not confused Bob Viden Sr. with Bob Viden Jr.

I got that info from the ANJRPC bi-monthly news breif which lists all the ANJRPC officers & chairpersons. No distinction between jr/sr is referenced there. Just a Robert Viden.

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3 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

That surely is a problem don' ya think?

Its been discussed here before.....ruffled a few feathers on both sides of the discussion. Some say he isnt a true 2A guy because -IIRC- someone somewhere maybe said he said he doesnt think we should have ccw in NJ. Others defend him saying he's a great 2A guy. Wrong side of the state for me, I dont know anything about him or his shop. But, IF true makes for an interesting duo with Bach.

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There must be some confusion here! Robert Viden Jr. is the owner of the gun shop, he is a FUDD, vehemently anti CCW, Though he has a carry permit). He is a pro Sweeney NRA official with ANJRPC. We never discussed Sr. and Jr., being elderly himself, I doubt Sr. is still living.

I have done business with him personally and spent thousands of dollars in his shop. He is a nice enough guy but I now know the truth and would NEVER again give him or his shop one penny of my hard earned money! Even if his shop was the only one in Jersey!

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