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Scorpio64

Let's Talk Tires

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I need a new set of sneakers for my Toyota Camry (05).  I know we got a bunch of car guys here, your input will be appreciated.

My Costco options are ...

BF Goodrich Advantage TA Sport

Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus

Michelin-X Tour A/S T + H

Bridgestone-Blizzak WS80

Michelin-Premier A/S

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Costco is running $70 off a set of Bridgestone tires this month. They also have free rotation and nitrogen fills for I think $15. I need a new set on my Subaru Crosstrek, so I'm following this thread closely. ☺

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FYI – An often overlooked but very important factor in purchasing new tires for your car, SUV or truck is their age.  Specifically, the date that each tire was manufactured and its relation to the date you purchase them and have them installed on your vehicle.

Tire manufacturers recommend that tires should be replaced once they exceed six (6) years in age.  This is regardless of the wear level of the tread and is due to the realization that the rubber polymers dry out over time and that dry rot can and does occur on the sidewalls, creating a potential weak spot that could lead to a blowout.

Every tire sold in the U.S. must have a U.S. Dept. of Transportation (DOT) label that indicates the date that tire was manufactured.  You can (and should), locate the DOT code on the tire’s sidewall.  The key numbers are the last four digits that indicate the date of production.  Of those last four digits, the first two indicate which of 52 weeks and the second two digits refer to the year.  So for example, if the last four digits of the DOT code are 2615, that indicates that tire was produced in the 26th week of 2015.

FYI – Last month, I needed to buy new tires for my old roadster.  Only two companies still make tires in the size I need.  The local tire chain store told me they have four correct sized tires in stock and could get them the same day.  Once I arrived at the store, I checked the DOT codes on each tire and discovered that all of them were four (4) years old!  I refused to buy them and asked the manager to please do some research with their distributor(s) to see if he could locate and obtain four tires in the size I needed, that are no more than 12 months old.  He was able to do so within a week and those are the tires I purchased.

Most consumers just naively assume that the “new” tires they are purchasing were manufactured at some point in the past 12 months, but that is not always the case.  Your tires may have been sitting on a rack in a warehouse for several years before they were selected for your car.  This is especially true for tires that may be an odd size that is not all that common.  Many tire retailers, whether they are locals, chains or online sources, do not bother to check the age of the tires since their priority is to sell tires.  Therefore, the burden for this issue is on the consumer to ask, check and verify for yourself what the age of each tire is that you are buying. 
Caveat Emptor....  Good luck….

AVB-AMG

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5 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

I need a new set of sneakers for my Toyota Camry (05).  I know we got a bunch of car guys here, your input will be appreciated.

My Costco options are ...why costco?

BF Goodrich Advantage TA Sport bf goodrich ta sport is a fantastic tire. at least they used to be.

Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus i've always had horrible luck with bridgestone.(never dealt much with the blizzak..see comment at that one)

Michelin-X Tour A/S T + H   i've always found michelins to dry rot well before they should. also usually find their poor weather handling to suck. big time.

Bridgestone-Blizzak WS80 i've not dealt much with these....but i hear good stuff about them. in the snow. don't expect much wear out of them though. winter snow tire only. you'll need/want to remove them for the summer.

Michelin-Premier A/S see above comment on michelins.

one point i forgot above......moms car(07 taurus) has firestones on it. forget the model. they're loud as shit. they were on it when i bought it for her. they're coming off very soon.

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11 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Nitrogen fill is a thing now?  I always thought that was just a joke.

Watching thread with interest - I have a Costco membership and need new tires.

From what I was told nitrogen is not affected by temperature change and shouldn't need to be adjusted as often. This is true as long as there isn't any leakage. The part I'm not sure about is that oxygen contributes to dry rot for whereas nitrogen does not. Again I'm sure someone with more knowledge than I can chime in.

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I'm lucky if my tires last three years. I don't remember where to check, but I found that softer tires (200 something rating) handle better and stop quicker. They don't last as long, but If rather be able to stop quicker. 

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I would think that nitrogen filled would be beneficial to the people that drive around on rubber bands for tires as there is less volume and the pressure in the smaller space would matter more than on a larger Tire like a truck tire

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2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

I would think that nitrogen filled would be beneficial to the people that drive around on rubber bands for tires as there is less volume and the pressure in the smaller space would matter more than on a larger Tire like a truck tire

It's filled to the same pressure, so would it make a difference?

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For passenger cars and trucks/SUV's nitrogen fill is a waste of money. Ambient air is already 78% nitrogen, so the benefit of making it 100% is negligible for everyday use.

Beneficial for racing applications. Save your money.

One last note - if your car is equipped with summer only high performance tires, they should be changed out soon, as temperatures consistently below 40 degrees cause the high hysteresis rubber to harden resulting in a loss of traction. If there is snow on the ground it will pack the tread and due to lack of tread element "squirm" the tire will not be able to clear the tread - now you're riding on four icy slicks.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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1 hour ago, ChrisJM981 said:

It's filled to the same pressure, so would it make a difference?

It has to do with the volume of the chamber.  You know how it's fast to pump up a spray tank thats full but as the tank empties it takes more pumps to pressurize the tank.  When regular air heats up in a smaller chamber, it will create a greater pressure.  I'm not putting nitrogen n my tires.IMO it's a ridiculous gimmick marketed towards a certain younger crowd.

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one point i forgot above......moms car(07 taurus) has firestones on it. forget the model. they're loud as shit. they were on it when i bought it for her. they're coming off very soon.
Concur on the Michelins...just switched to Hankooks on my Sequoia and haven't looked back..better performance and much less $$

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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8 hours ago, Zeke said:

It’s a molecule thing, @10X will explain it the way I would, succinctly

Oxygen, even the 21% found in air, can react with the rubber to some extent; I'd think it would mostly go after the sulphur crosslinks formed in the vulcanization process.

That said, I have no idea if there is actual data to show this causes meaningful degradation of the rubber over the life of the tire.

I fill my tires with air, and don't worry about it further.  Tires wear from the outside in a lot faster than they degrade from the inside out.

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11 minutes ago, 10X said:

Oxygen, even the 21% found in air, can react with the rubber to some extent; I'd think it would mostly go after the sulphur crosslinks formed in the vulcanization process.

That said, I have no idea if there is actual data to show this causes meaningful degradation of the rubber over the life of the tire.

I fill my tires with air, and don't worry about it further.  Tires wear from the outside in a lot faster than they degrade from the inside out.

What he said. Dont over think this.

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Okay, so I did a little reading about nitrogen in tires, which is much better than guessing.  I have to admit, I do see a benefit. 1) air molecules are smaller and can escape the tire.  it's like how a helium balloon stays inflated longer than an air filled balloon.  2) There is water vapor in air, most compressors do not have an air dryer.  When atmospheric air heats up it will have a greater effect on tire pressure.  Also, the moisture may corrode the rims.

So there you have it.  I'm still using plain old air.  I check my tire pressure regularly and my rims are not of the $1,000.00 each variety.

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55 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Okay, so I did a little reading about nitrogen in tires, which is much better than guessing.  I have to admit, I do see a benefit. 1) air molecules are smaller and can escape the tire.  it's like how a helium balloon stays inflated longer than an air filled balloon.  2) There is water vapor in air, most compressors do not have an air dryer.  When atmospheric air heats up it will have a greater effect on tire pressure.  Also, the moisture may corrode the rims.

We agree on the use of air.

Air 'molecules' are mostly nitrogen molecules, so that's a wash.   It's true, oxygen molecules are a little smaller; I don't know if that makes a practical difference in how fast tires lose pressure.

Helium balloons stay inflated for a much shorter time than air balloons.  Helium is a tiny, slippery little atom.

It's true, air compressor air will almost always be moister than commercial compressed nitrogen, so maybe that's relevant (less so if you rarely have to add gas to your tires).

And this one I had to look up:  at the pressure found in auto tires, nitrogen and oxygen are within maybe 0.01% of each other in terms of how pressure changes with temperature.    The deviation from ideal gas laws really isn't a factor until the pressure gets to be a lot higher.   pressure/temperature relationships.

I've also noted that the folks selling nitrogen to fill tires for all of the reasons called out in the various posts above never seem too alarmed about the outside of the tire being exposed to air, and there is a lot more surface area to be affected on the outside.  Yes, external pressure is lower, but a 30 psi difference doesn't mean much in terms of chemical reactivity.

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9 hours ago, Pizza Bob said:

For passenger cars and trucks/SUV's nitrogen fill is a waste of money. Ambient air is already 78% nitrogen, so the benefit of making it 100% is negligible for everyday use.

Beneficial for racing applications. Save your money.

One last note - if your car is equipped with summer only high performance tires, they should be changed out soon, as temperatures consistently below 40 degrees cause the high hysteresis rubber to harden resulting in a loss of traction. If there is snow on the ground it will pack the tread and due to lack of tread element "squirm" the tire will not be able to clear the tread - now you're riding on four icy slicks.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

the main advantage(from my understanding, having never dealt with it) is that it doesn't change pressure with temp/weather changes, thus eliminating false flags on your tpms. toyotas false alarm ALL THE $%^ TIME

8 hours ago, jrfly3006 said:

Concur on the Michelins...just switched to Hankooks on my Sequoia and haven't looked back..better performance and much less $$

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

i've been installing hankooks on customers cars for about 4 years now. not a single complaint. they actually love them. inexpensive priced tire, and good all around performance.

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I agree with the earlier post by Pizza Bob that using nitrogen to inflate tires is a waste and that there is a very good reason to use both summer and winter tires.

I am firmly in the camp that believes that in order to get the best performance, enjoyment and safety from your vehicles, whether they are daily drivers or used only on occasion, (i.e. long road trips, utility, etc.), one should switch between summer performance tires and winter (snow) tires.  This is especially true for cars that are rear-wheel drive.

While it may seem easier and less expensive to go with all-season tires, if you do you are compromising your vehicle’s performance, something that most of us enthusiasts do not want to do.  Therefore, I switch out my summer performance wheels/tires to my winter wheels/tires usually around Dec. 1st and keep them on the vehicles for approximately. five (5) months and switch back around May 1st.

It is a misconception that winter tires are really only needed for driving on snow covered roads.  Studies have shown that at about 44 deg. F, and below, the softer rubber compounds in high-performance summer tires AND all-season tires change by becoming much harder.  This results in reduced contact with the road.  Winter tires are designed with special rubber compounds that will stay soft at the lower temperatures and with tread groove geometry design that increase surface contact and therefore your traction in cold winter conditions.  Therefore, winter tires should seriously be considered for all locations where the air temperature will be below approx.. 40 deg. F. for days/weeks/months on end.

As far as my experience, I tend to go with the summer and winter tries that are either OEM or recommended by the manufacturer, in my case Mercedes-Benz and BMW.  I have the wheels/tires swapped out at my respective Dealers. During this transition, they take my summer wheels/tires and shrink-wrap them, put them on a pallet and store them in a central warehouse facility during the winter months, all for a nominal fee. For those of us who do not have extravagant garage storage space for these wheels/tires, this option makes quite a bit of sense. 

Despite the large width of all of these tires, they have proven their dependable performance during the cold winter months and have been more than adequate to get me through snow covered roads.  Also, I have been pleased with the performance and longevity of these summer and winter tires, considering my greater than average spirited driving habits…..    FYI, these are the tires I have used:


2016 BMW X5M (all-wheel drive)
Summer:  Michelin Pilot Super Sport (21” non-run flats)
Winter:
Pirelli Scorpions Winter (20” – non-run flats)

2014 BMW M6 Coupe, (rear-wheel drive)
Summer: Michelin Pilot Super Sport (20” non-run flats)
Winter: Pirelli W240 Sottozero S2 Performance Winter/Snow Tires. (19” - Non-Run-Flat Tires)

2007 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG (all-wheel drive)
Summer:  Continental Cross Contact high performance tires (20”)
Winter: Pirelli Scorpion ICE & SNOW tires, (20” mounted on same rims)

AVB-AMG

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