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KMA4626

gifting a rifle

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my parents both just got their FID cards but they don't have any guns yet. I would like to get them each a rifle for Christmas but I am not sure how to legally do so. how exactly do I go about doing this without inadvertently making us all go to the slammer?

 

edit: I forgot to mention they will be moving out of state in 6 months or so, so I would like to know how to make the transfer official before they move so that if later down the line someone asks questions it doesn't look like an illegal out of state transaction.

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Are you planning to get them new rifles or planning to gift the ones you already have in your possession ? 

If new, decide if you will be purchasing at an NJ FFL or ordering online for deliver to NJ FFL.

Make sure its a NJ FFL who knows the law and is comfortable with gift transfers, tell them you want to pay for the rifles. 

When rifles are ready to be transferred, take/have your parents to FFL. They will fill the forms and take the stuff home. 

 

If this is going to be a surprise gift, you may take transfer of rifles, bring them home and gift them per ATF 4473.  I would also make sure my parents DO NOT give me any money or other stuff in exchange for  or towards that firearm gift. Even if its a small, friendly, benign gesture, could get someone in trouble. 

To cover NJ laws, I would have them fill out the NJ COE at the time of gift at home. 

------------------

ATF 4473. 

However, if Mr. Brown buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a gift (with no service or tangible thing of value provided by Mr. Black) , Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, the transferor/seller may not transfer a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n) or (x).

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1 hour ago, jackandjill said:

Are you planning to get them new rifles or planning to gift the ones you already have in your possession ? 

If new, decide if you will be purchasing at an NJ FFL or ordering online for deliver to NJ FFL.

Make sure its a NJ FFL who knows the law and is comfortable with gift transfers, tell them you want to pay for the rifles. 

When rifles are ready to be transferred, take/have your parents to FFL. They will fill the forms and take the stuff home. 

 

If this is going to be a surprise gift, you may take transfer of rifles, bring them home and gift them per ATF 4473.  I would also make sure my parents DO NOT give me any money or other stuff in exchange for  or towards that firearm gift. Even if its a small, friendly, benign gesture, could get someone in trouble. 

To cover NJ laws, I would have them fill out the NJ COE at the time of gift at home. 

------------------

ATF 4473. 

However, if Mr. Brown buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a gift (with no service or tangible thing of value provided by Mr. Black) , Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, the transferor/seller may not transfer a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n) or (x).

ok interesting. so I am in fact planning to buy 2 new rifles and surprise them for Christmas. I just downloaded the 4473 pdf from the atf website. I read the bottom section and understand how I will be filling out question 11a however, afterward is there any paperwork I will have to have my parents fill out to send to the atf to your knowledge? it doesn't really specify.

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15 minutes ago, KMA4626 said:

ok interesting. so I am in fact planning to buy 2 new rifles and surprise them for Christmas. I just downloaded the 4473 pdf from the atf website. I read the bottom section and understand how I will be filling out question 11a however, afterward is there any paperwork I will have to have my parents fill out to send to the atf to your knowledge? it doesn't really specify.

You do not send any paperwork to ATF or any other party for long guns in NJ.  As far as ATF / Feds is considered, you took possession of those rifles legally (per their own instructions).  Remember, Form 4473 clearly says YOU cannot gift the firearms to an otherwise prohibited person and you cannot gift in exchange for money, services etc. 

At the time of this surprise reveal, have your parents fill the NJ Certificate Of Eligibility (link below), two per each firearm. You keep one copy of each and your parent keeps a copy.  Also remember that when you gift the long gun, you are gifting to specific parent and thats who should fill out the COE. 

And you are done. 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/sp-634.pdf

IANAL. BTW, Dont let anyone tell you all of this is a loophole. Its not. Its the law and good number of firearms change hands in face to face transactions between law abiding citizens who are not prohibited from owning and possessing firearms. 

I strongly suggest you pick a NJ FFL who is active on these forums. Ask for recommendations if you need help finding one. 

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Just to be clear the FFL is only needed when you purchase the rifles. You are the owner and what you do with them is not the business of the FFL.

After you take possession of the rifles you and your parents fill out the NJ COE for each rifle and you do not file this paperwork with anyone (not the ATF, NJSP, FFL, etc). 

As  jackandjill said make sure you are not receiving anything in exchange for the gift or your purchase of the rifles will be viewed as a straw purchase.

Pistols are very different. Your parents would need to provide you with a Permit to Purchase and you would have to file that with their local PD and the State Police.

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Why would it be considered a straw purchase if the parents gave him money in exchange for the rifles? They are not prohibited persons by virtue of their FPID cards and as long as COE's are exchanged its a legal transfer. A straw purchase needs for the reciever to be a prohibited person, no?

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25 minutes ago, siderman said:

Why would it be considered a straw purchase if the parents gave him money in exchange for the rifles? They are not prohibited persons by virtue of their FPID cards and as long as COE's are exchanged its a legal transfer. A straw purchase needs for the reciever to be a prohibited person, no?

 Read the following for a case involving family transaction and monetary exchange. 

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20141107/supreme-court-grants-batfe-broad-leeway-on-straw-purchase-rules-in-abramski-v-united-states

Note: This case is also a good example for anyone who thinks "but who is going to know...".

 

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You are buying the rifles for yourself. Then you decided to sell them to your parents for $1 and you don't have to worry about the gift part. You aren't a straw purchaser because you bought them for yourself and decided to sell them after. Or you can do the gift thing. Either way no one gets the COE from you to your parents so does it really matter?

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56 minutes ago, jackandjill said:

 Read the following for a case involving family transaction and monetary exchange. 

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20141107/supreme-court-grants-batfe-broad-leeway-on-straw-purchase-rules-in-abramski-v-united-states

Note: This case is also a good example for anyone who thinks "but who is going to know...".

 

I'm familiar with that case. The seller falsified info on the 4473 form that the gun was for him and wouldnt have been caught but for other circumstances when pre-arranged payment (check?) from the uncle to the buyer was found.  

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Why would it be considered a straw purchase if the parents gave him money in exchange for the rifles? They are not prohibited persons by virtue of their FPID cards and as long as COE's are exchanged its a legal transfer. A straw purchase needs for the reciever to be a prohibited person, no?


It doesn't matter if the receiving person is prohibited or has a FPID, it is still a Straw Purchass. Even with no money exchanged, if someone asked another to get him a gun, it is a Straw Purchase. This issue is not Black & White, just a whole lot of gray.
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25 minutes ago, PK90 said:


 

 


It doesn't matter if the receiving person is prohibited or has a FPID, it is still a Straw Purchass. Even with no money exchanged, if someone asked another to get him a gun, it is a Straw Purchase. This issue is not Black & White, just a whole lot of gray.

 

But the parents here arent asking for the rifles. They will be a gift. So I guess the grey area is it comes down to the buyers intent. Buy them for himself and have "remorse" and gift them or otherwise he falsified that the guns were for him. 

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But the parents here arent asking for the rifles. They will be a gift. So I guess the grey area is it comes down to the buyers intent. Buy them for himself and have "remorse" and gift them or otherwise he falsified that the guns were for him. 
Exactly. The initial intent must be him buying them for himself. Solves all other issues.

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I think we are complicating the solution for OPs specific situation. There is a clear, documented, legal path for gifts when it comes to Feds and NJ COE seals the deal at state level. Done and done. 

WHY money should not be involved or if thats a fair requirements etc are for another thread, me thinks.  

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Easy solution is to pay the bill in full, have parents go to FFL, fill out paper work, NICS, take new property home.  If you need something for under the tree print a picture of the new firearms and let them unwrap that.  

 

Edit:

While this is technically not a straw purchase if the ultimate receiver, parents, didn’t request that you buy them a firearm why would you want to try and prove that if required?

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