Ray Ray

Remington 870 DM (magazine feed shotgun)

28 posts in this topic

Nope, I’m good.

 

Box magazines and shotgun shells aren’t optimal. A cylinder has vertical strength. So stacking shells in a traditional tube, less of a chance of them deforming. Horizontal pressure, you start egging the shell out.

 

Simple way to prove it... take two toilet paper or paper towel tubes (after done with roll). With one, squeeze around the circular portion. With the other, put one end on the table, and push down from the other end with your hand... one will take noticeably less effort to crush.

 

I personally think that is a waste for Remington. As I mentioned in the other thread, after I take out the dimples and install the extension... my TAC-14 will be 5+1. Big difference is the lack of that huge scrotum hanging below the ejection port for that extra round.

 

Plus, how much are these magazines going to cost? When you are losing a ton of money, don’t try to reinvent the wheel... put that money into QC.

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I dunno @Screwball, I think Remington might have a winner here.  There are a bunch of different variations already which leads me to believe they are all in on this set up. 

Remember when everyone said the Shockwave was a joke and nobody would buy them?  Well, we know that isn't the case.   So much so that Remington had to make their own version.  Let's play the game of wait and see.

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I dunno [mention=4929]Screwball[/mention], I think Remington might have a winner here.


We can agree to disagree...

But what do you think Remington is doing different? Because there have been pump action detachable magazine shotguns for years.

Early 1990s, there was one company taking standard shotguns and just modifying them for a metal box magazine. Just think they pulled the spring and follower, leaving the tube for forend support. I say that because I don’t even remember the company’s name... and I was interested in it back then (it was in one of those thick gun value books... 1993ish; remember the Beretta 96 ad in the same book).

Another case in point... how long have the Adaptive Tactical kits been out? Are they a hit?

Sorry, but while I’m all for new designs... I think it will be a waste for Remington. Put that same money into QC, and regain consumer support.

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17 minutes ago, NJGF said:

I have never seen a mag fed shotgun run reliably but I am hoping that Remington built a winner here.

I disagree, conditionally.

The dissident arms shotguns (VEPR/SAIGA base) run like raped apes with cooled mags/ammo.  

As screwball pointed out shotgun shells don't like being stacked in magazines.  Case in point, go to a major action shotgun or 3 gun match and look at the guys who don't have issues.  All the open shooters store their mags and shells in coolers.  This keeps them running.  Hot shells get egg shaped and won't feed, and sometimes while feeding hot shells smush in the action.

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Another point, out of those running 870s, who knows how to clear the chamber without loading a shell from the tube?

How would you load in a slug when you have a magazine that likely uses the bolt to keep the shells out from loading into the chamber? Bolt comes back, your next round in the magazine will be ready to be loaded. That means to change out to a slug, need to pull out the magazine and either directly load a slug (probably insert directly into the chamber since there isn’t likely a shell lifter) or load a magazine with slugs into the gun?

There is a similar topic on another forum I’m following... which came up a day before this one started. One of the posters there made a comment that I feel is probably one of the more thought out views of this design change. Paraphrasing... but it makes you need to relearn shooting a shotgun basically from scratch.

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8 hours ago, BlueLineFish said:

My vepr 12 runs flawlessly

Did you do anything to it? I have a shell catch on the feed ramp occasionally.  Not sure if it's the ammo. 

9 hours ago, Screwball said:

Another point, out of those running 870s, who knows how to clear the chamber without loading a shell from the tube?

How would you load in a slug when you have a magazine that likely uses the bolt to keep the shells out from loading into the chamber? Bolt comes back, your next round in the magazine will be ready to be loaded. That means to change out to a slug, need to pull out the magazine and either directly load a slug (probably insert directly into the chamber since there isn’t likely a shell lifter) or load a magazine with slugs into the gun?

I would swap the mag with the one that has slugs in it. Done. 

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I would swap the mag with the one that has slugs in it. Done.


And I’m glad you would train to do that...

Running a traditional 870 for years, that is as instinctive as swapping the tubes on a KSG. Can it be done? Sure... but you are going to have to retrain on the entire system.

Add in the history of a lack of interest in box fed pump action shotguns, I’m skeptical with it.

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2 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

I'd prefer a drum, but NJ.

Why can't you have a drum?

If said drum does not feed any semi auto then it's not illegal.  

Also some other food for thought...

In NJ you can have a "trunk gun" so long as it's an unloaded long gun.  If you have this and a conventional tube fed shotgun side by side, which can you load faster...?

For the changing ammunition point, sure you can't slip in a slug mid-magazine easily.  But as pointed out you can simply swap magazines.  Counterpoint:  You can unload this faster should you choose to go from an entire magazine of one load to an entire magazine of another.  Going back to the comparison, if you had this and a conventional tube fed shotgun side by side loaded with an equal amount of rounds, which can you unload and reload faster?

I'm not looking to start arguments, just playing devils advocate.  I feel pretty "meh" about this.

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49 minutes ago, NJGF said:

But can one have a loaded shotgun mag in their trunk? Not wanting to re-litigate this issue but some will not do this and in that case a tube fed shotgun is faster than most long guns to get in the action.

Yes, you can have a loaded magazine in your trunk.  

Law says the firearm can't be loaded.

Is the magazine a firearm?  Do you get a background check to buy it?  Fill out a 4473?  "Magazine" and "Firearm" are two separately defined objects in the criminal code and nowhere does it regulate a loaded magazine.  Only loaded firearms.

 

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I'm not looking to start arguments, just playing devils advocate.  I feel pretty "meh" about this.


It really does come down to personal preference... not really a right/wrong answer.

In regards to it being a NJ “trunk gun,” it may be a valid consideration. However, I’m not going to be in NJ for that much longer, so might be partial towards the traditional tube magazine. But when you are going to have issues with feeding, the magazine usually is the cause.

For me, running an 870 and moving to a 870 with a detachable magazine is a big difference. If I have 10+ years on a traditional 870, is it worth it for me to move to the new model? Not really. For people considering the move, need to consider the pros/cons of each, and which is worth more to then.

I heard they have three and six round magazines planned. So, if you have a three rounder... does that mean you can’t hunt with it or can’t load three on a closed bolt (would also be a five rounder if that is the case)? And how does this differ from 10 round box/drum and five round box from the Adaptive Tactical kit which has been around for a few years already?

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@Screwball, this is kinda like a new design or operating system.   Think Kel-Tec MSG Tavor.  Both are totally off the beaten path and both are doing very well.  Think of this in those lines and it makes more sense.

Me?  I'll be waiting for the Mossberg version.

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