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vladtepes

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I have shotguns.. ARs.. handguns.. and within the next year.. I will probably finally bite the bullet and get a bolt gun.. problem is I know nothing about it.. I have an AR in 308 that I shoot.. and its accurate..but I am not sure I want to stick with that caliber for a bolt gun.. the question is mostly about caliber... I want something powerful..

I have looked at 308.. 300 win mag.. etc.. even 338 Lapua for like a minute.. 

I literally have no idea what direction to go in.. advantages and disadvantages.. really thinking this gun I want to be distance.. 

 

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.243 for precision and economy.  6.5 CM for superior ballistic performance but $$$$.  50BMG if you don't mind driving 6 hours to a 1000 yard range and are living off a trust fund. Pluses, kills big trucks, minuses $3.00 and up per squeeze.  6.5 Swede if you like milsurp rifles and reasonably priced ammo.  7mm Rem mag, don't know shit about it but it's powerful.  300 win mag if you have good health insurance and a good orthopedic doc to reattach your shoulder.  Or, just get a 308 and have fun.  .308 is actually pretty good.

  Every caliber is a good caliber for something.  You really need to decide on what that something is, how much cost you are willing to incur and how much physical pain you can endure.

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9 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

.243 for precision and economy.  6.5 CM for superior ballistic performance but $$$$.  50BMG if you don't mind driving 6 hours to a 1000 yard range and are living off a trust fund. Pluses, kills big trucks, minuses $3.00 and up per squeeze.  6.5 Swede if you like milsurp rifles and reasonably priced ammo.  7mm mag, don't know shit about it but it's powerful.  300 win mag if you have good health insurance and a good orthopedic doc to reattach your shoulder.  Or, just get a 308 and have fun.  .308 is actually pretty good.

  Every caliber is a good caliber for something.  You really need to decide on what that something is, how much cost you are willing to incur and how much physical pain you can endure.

 

I can't afford 50.. its just too much.. I have the 308 AR for fun.. so in my mind the bolt gun would be the biggest most accurate I could afford to feed.. I have shot 7mm before and didn't die.. how does it stack up to 300 win mag..

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OK it's your first bolt and it seems like you want to reach out and spank something.  Given what I have read here about you, I would say start with a Ruger Precision in 308 and have at it.  In time when you find your niche the RPR can be easily upgraded or traded off for your next step.  The 243, 6.5 creed, 260 Remington. 308 all used the same bolt. Easily change the barrel and keep shooting.

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7mm-08 is not the same as 7mm Rem Mag.  Here's a great recoil chart.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Those magnum rifles are not pleasant to shoot and are generally long range big game or anti material.  I'd think twice about going full retard on power.

 

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5 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

7mm-08 is not the same as 7mm Rem Mag.  Here's a great recoil chart.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Those magnum rifles are not pleasant to shoot and are generally long range big game or anti material.  I'd think twice about going full retard on power.

 

 

that is a good comparison.. LOL 

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What are you going to use it for?  What distances will you he shooting?  Those are  the biggest determining factors.  I have a 300 WinMag in a chassis and recoil isn’t bad at all.  I regret not building it in .338 and may convert and sell the barreled action.  I have a 6.5x47 Lapua which is competitive to the creedmor round.  I like it a bit better and it’s cirtually no recoil.  I’m, copying Bully, and building a .223 precision bolt.  It’ll go 700 yards and it’s dirt cheap to buy reload match ammo for it.  It’ll allow plenty of cheap practice.  Are you going to build it or just buy a stock rifle and fire it?   

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If you truly want big and bad, go 300Norma.

Don't even look at anything else.  

If you want realistic, 308 and 300WinMag will do just about everything.  Personally I'm not a big bore guy.  I like my 6's and 6.5's.  As far as "power", that would depend on what you mean.  A 6.5C or 6.5x47L has more down range power past "x" yards than a 308 because of BC (ballistic coefficient).  I've seen it first hand.  I was in a small class with 3 guys shooting 308.  I was shooting my 6.5/47.  Beyond them needing to make wind calls on anything past 300 yards and me not needing to until it was past 500 yards, I shot at a 6" steel plate at 650 and smacked it so aggressively that it spun off the stand about a foot in the air.  I have a witness.  He saw it better than I did and said it was pretty spectacular.  He also mentioned that it pissed him off because he was going to pull the trigger on it after me.  

So, before you go all "operator" it's best to define what you mean by what you say.  If you want to have a flat trajectory to 6-700 yards pushing a relatively massive projectile, go Norma.  Be prepared to spend.

If you want to shoot at reasonable cost, with an effective round that will accomplish what most civilians need to accomplish on a range (dinging steel and punching paper) go with a 6mm or 6.5mm and don't look back.  6 or 6.5Creed and .243 would be my choices.

If you want to learn wind and have a ton of fun at very reasonable cost, build a slow twist .223 shoot factory 55grain quality ammo all day.  

I'm really not a 308 guy.  I had one (or two).  The benefit of 308 is the relatively large availability of match quality factory ammo.  The down sides are that given the recoil and somewhat low BC, the round just doesn't do that well for what I use it for.  

I don't know much, but feel free to PM me and I'll help in any way I can.  

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What’s your budget and how far do you plan on shooting ? Do you reload or not ? 

Remember , you need to put some money aside for decent glass (like 1/3rd to 1/2 on what you have into the rifle) to see targets at distance and pick up trace. 

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50 minutes ago, BullzeyeNJ said:

Do you reload or not?

This will be a huge factor.  If you shoot .243 or .308, reloading may not save you a lot of money, but it will absolutely give you an extra edge on accuracy.  If you decide on 6x47 Lapua or 6.5 CM, you will find lots of good  factory match loads but they are mucho dinero, reloading will give you an extra edge and save you a pile of cash too. 

Naturally, the more you shoot, the faster you will recoup your investment in reloading equipment.  Other things to consider, .243 and 6mm are the same bullet so reloading 6mm Lapua will cost about as much as .243 after the initial investment in brass. Relative to .243, you will save more.

6.5CM is probably as middle of the road as you can get when you factor cost, ammo availability, performance and recoil.  btw, though 6.5CM has gained popularity over the past few years, 6.5mm has been around for ages.  I wasn't joking about 6.5mm Swede, it's like the 30-06 of Scandinavia  and still the most popular for hunting there.  Swede ammo costs about half that of CM.  The Swede 6.5 has a high BC and performs very close to 6.5CM, but you won't find  a Rem 700 or RPR chambered in Swede.

The 25's are pretty good too, 257 Roberts, 25-06 and .257 Wby Mag are great performers but rifle and ammo selection will be limited.

As much as I hate to say it, go with 6.5CM if you can afford to, all the cool kids are doing it.  Otherwise, go with the tried and true .308.

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Every gun owner should have a German K98 Mauser and/or a 1903 Springfield! They are classic, fire powerful cartridges, accurate and historical. Nice Shooter grades can be found in the $500-1,000 range, Sniper versions in the $3,000-4,000 price range.

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21 hours ago, George Yetka said:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/04/17-incinerator-ultimate-varmint-cartridge-with-mach-5-speed/

 

This is what you need. My thought is start small and get bigger but all in a 50 cal case

Cartridge was announced on April 1...    :-)

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Everything I’ve read is leading me towards 6.5cm in a ruger rpr. And spending the same for glass as the rifle. I inherited a 7mm rem mag. That rifle like many of the 300 win mags I’ve helped zero, is for hunting large game.

 

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FYI:  you are opening Pandora’s Box

I say get a basic Remington 700 or if you want to spend a little more, a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308. Chose a moderately priced 1-10x scope, a rear bag, a bunch of ammo, a quality spotting scope and tripod, sling, data book, a range finder, and a kestrel.

This is going to be crazy crazy expensive without even getting into the $7.00 around calibers.

Learn how to shoot at distance - it will be  cheaper to learn on .308 than any of these Gucci Calibers that may not be around forever (.308 isn't going anywhere) so you'll get more trigger time for your money. More time.behind the gun = proficiency - and let's face it, the US Mil has been killing bad guys at 1000 yards with .308 for years. It will likely do everything you want it to do.

After you have the basics down or you have reached a point where you are outshooting your equipment, you can upgrade your optics or your rifle. You can probably sell the .308 RPR with little to no monetary loss and pick up another caliber if you feel the need.

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I was about to post but HE said everything I would have said.

A 308 Savage will deliver what you are looking for.  Just about any 7.62 NATO  gives me about an inch groups at 100 and 3 at 300. Still plenty of 7.62 NATO around at reasonable prices  If you feel you need more after you master the 308 you can move on.  I've been  happy with the 308 for years.

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3 hours ago, High Exposure said:

FYI:  you are opening Pandora’s Box

I say get a basic Remington 700 or if you want to spend a little more, a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308. Chose a moderately priced 1-10x scope, a rear bag, a bunch of ammo, a quality spotting scope and tripod, sling, data book, a range finder, and a kestrel.

This is going to be crazy crazy expensive without even getting into the $7.00 around calibers.

Learn how to shoot at distance - it will be  cheaper to learn on .308 than any of these Gucci Calibers that may not be around forever (.308 isn't going anywhere) so you'll get more trigger time for your money. More time.behind the gun = proficiency - and let's face it, the US Mil has been killing bad guys at 1000 yards with .308 for years. It will likely do everything you want it to do.

After you have the basics down or you have reached a point where you are outshooting your equipment, you can upgrade your optics or your rifle. You can probably sell the .308 RPR with little to no monetary loss and pick up another caliber if you feel the need.

I agree with most of this but if your target range is inside of 700 you cold get a 700 or RPR in a Match chambered .223 and spend even less.  The main reason I’m following Bully and putting together a .223.  

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4 hours ago, Zeke said:

Everything I’ve read is leading me towards 6.5cm in a ruger rpr. And spending the same for glass as the rifle. I inherited a 7mm rem mag. That rifle like many of the 300 win mags I’ve helped zero, is for hunting large game.

 

Putting a budget 6.5 Creed together now based on a Ruger American Predator I picked up for $380 OTD. An Athlon Talos FFP 4-14x44 I got for $175 and an Odin Atlas Comp for $85.  Wanna see just how far I can push it.  Not expecting miracles just seeing if this low end hype is justified.

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4 minutes ago, T Bill said:

Putting a budget 6.5 Creed together now based on a Ruger American Predator I picked up for $380 OTD. An Athlon Talos FFP 4-14x44 I got for $175 and an Odin Atlas Comp for $85.  Wanna see just how far I can push it.  Not expecting miracles just seeing if this low end hype is justified.

Expect report.

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I know you're looking for something powerful but you also mentioned about distance so I wanted to throw this option out there for you to mull over.

A .22 makes a great trainer rifle for a .308.

Your windage dope adjustments for the .22 are what you would use for the .308 at twice the distance (e.g if your .22 rifle is zeroed at 50yds, the dope you use to shoot it at 100yds is the dope you would use for the .308 at 200yds). 

If you go to the middle of this article there's a table that compares windage of the .22 compared to the .308 (based on a 175 SMK load).

http://www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html

Also, this is for windage only. You'd still need to factor in bullet drop for your caliber at distance.

Since you already have a .308 AR, that's probably the only caliber you need to reach out and touch someone if you learn to dope for wind. The recoil will be sharper in a bolt action because of the lack of buffering but proper usage of a sling can go a long way towards managing it.

Best of luck on your decision. I'd be curious to know what you end up getting. 

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I appreciate all the input.. 

I have shot to 300 with 556 and 308 ARs.. so I have shot some distance.. 

I do reload.. and whatever I end up getting I would probably reload.. 

My comment about wanting something powerful.. I will only own one bolt gun so I just wanted something a little over the top.. I am not concerned about recoil.. 

308 is not completely off the table.. I think I really am down to 300 or 308.. 

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4 hours ago, vladtepes said:

308 is not completely off the table.. I think I really am down to 300 or 308.. 

Same bullet, bigger case.  

Again, I'm not a 30cal guy but it's your loot.  A 300WinMag in the right stock/chassis is a beautiful thing.  I just like getting to the same point of impact with less recoil.  

Also, I love that you say you will have only one bolt gun.  That's funny. :bsmeter:

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7 hours ago, vladtepes said:

I appreciate all the input.. 

I have shot to 300 with 556 and 308 ARs.. so I have shot some distance.. 

I do reload.. and whatever I end up getting I would probably reload.. 

My comment about wanting something powerful.. I will only own one bolt gun so I just wanted something a little over the top.. I am not concerned about recoil.. 

308 is not completely off the table.. I think I really am down to 300 or 308.. 

I have a nicely done 300 WM in a JAE 700 chassis / stock system and its great.  If you want a big bore over the top go .338. I may do one myself.  

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Honestly, Id buy twice. Buy yourself something that will get the job done for the time being. More than 1/2 of precision shooting is the shooter. So if you buy a sub $1000 gun you will be happy with is precision for a while. until you better yourself with precision shooting. a $10000 rifle wont do you too much better than the $1000 one. I should have gone this route, instead I bought a custom 1st and it took me 9 months to get the first time and I shipped it back 8 times over the following 3 years and eventually parted it out. I could have been out shooting a 1/2-3/4 moa gun instead of waiting 3 years for a 1/4 moa gun that on the last attempt fired by itself as soon as the bolt closed.

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Just my opinion but if you are down to .308 or .300, scratch the .308 and replace it with 6.5cm. Everything the .308 can do, the 6.5cm will do better. At this point, match 308 and 6.5 ammo is about the same cost wise as well. 

Obviously, it's your call between the exactly what size caliber you want. A 300win mag is a big boy round and if that's what you want, go for. You'll have to watch out for barrel life with that tho. I don't think you can go wrong with either

 

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That is why I suggested a RPR.  Because the case heads are in the 308 family no bolt or extraction issues and very easy to change barrels yourself. Want a different stock or FCG, just change it. Modular and doesn't break the bank.

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1 hour ago, T Bill said:

That is why I suggested a RPR.  Because the case heads are in the 308 family no bolt or extraction issues and very easy to change barrels yourself. Want a different stock or FCG, just change it. Modular and doesn't break the bank.

Or a Savage.

Ask @Old School about his .243

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Buy a Savage Model 10 or 12.

You want a different caliber in the same bolt face family, buy a barrel and screw it on.

You want a different caliber in a different bolt face family, buy a barrel and bolt "head", attach and screw on the barrel.

Stocks aplenty.  Not as many as a Remington but still a bunch.

No 2 stage triggers but the stuff from Timney and Rifle Basix will get the job done.

Fun platform for the tinkerers among us.  

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