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Downtownv

I just received this and I want to just put it here.

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8 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Ooops... Rosey just beat me to the punch, so I'm editing this message, LOL. My 2 cents, he's the only rep of a NJ 2A org that regularly posts on here. (LOL, hmmm... I wonder why? We're a tough crowd, and I include myself in that! Hmmm... maybe if we all didn't chase people away with our torches and pitchforks... they'd stick around and give us even MORE information. :huh:)

I've seen him fairly regularly post: "we had X# number of new shooters at our women's event this past weekend" or "we provided trainers to the diversity shoot last week" or "here's a pic of our new billboard on route so-and-so" --- my only reasonable conclusion is that they are, in fact, doing something and reporting it back to us. What am I missing here? Maybe you measure "results" only by lawsuits? I don't. Newbies getting a fun, safe day at the range that makes them look at shooting in a more positive light is a good thing in my book, even better if they join the shooting sports because of it.

I think there's room for different approaches... from new shooter recruitment (like CNJFO) to in-your-face exposes (like NJ2AS). As long as they're not damaging the cause (the big issue for me), I guess my question is: how much should we criticize the organizations that are staffed by volunteers? Maybe not at all? Frankly, I wouldn't have criticized Roubian at all if he wasn't striking out at other 2A groups like a primadonna... I've been delighted to acknowledge his successes (even went so far as to share one of his videos very widely).

I would end with this: if you think any of these groups are not doing enough, perhaps you should join them and help drive their successes? And if you find out they have successes you were unware of, maybe you want to volunteer to be their communications person...? BTW, those roles won't pay you a dime... and a bunch of people will be waiting in the wings to criticize everything you do. Sounds great, right?

 

Thanks Mrs. Peel!  You're like a ray of golden sunshine in the middle of a hurricane stirred-up by the passionately uninformed.  Those who only measure results by major wins (such as installing a traffic light on Mt. Everest, aka being able to CCW in NJ) will surely have to wait for a cold day in Hell.  In the meantime, no help, no moral support, no financial support whatsoever.  Just a continuous barrage of HATE & never an email saying they want to put SKIN IN THE GAME.  And folks wonder why other Groups don't do sh!t here on the forum (you witnessed it first-hand, then wrote about it, so you KNOW about it :) )?  Well, I'll say it again:  THIS IS WHY!  The utter distraction of dealing with these individuals is a time-waster extraordinaire! 

Every day we gain ground incrementally, then some whackjob with a AR shoots-up a school, mall, movie theater, you name it.  And yet, we still fight tyranny.  One.  Day.  At.  A.  Time.  As VOLUNTEERS!  Thanks Mrs. Peel for continuing to be the light of truth!

Rosey

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32 minutes ago, AlexTheSane said:

What good has the stun gun decision done us?  We still can't carry them.  There is nothing that opens a door that was previously closed with gun rights.  You can now legally own a stun gun in your home, just like you previously could with a gun.

Ok, so now we are in the race to the bottom ? I will take one less law on the books for $35 donation a year to nothing in return for couple of hundred bucks a year. 

I didnt hear anything about any of the folks quoted above too. Yes, I used to get "Brief" and I used to read it front to back. Other than chest thumping "We are going to strike fear in the hearts of any department that violates law", I have seen nothing. 

I have seen same thing happen with Groups outside 2A that takes membership fees and thinks they can "please" politicians by putting up "displays" in Trenton to show "our work". When push comes to shove, laws are passed regardless. And they come out of wood work and send out more chest thumping material claiming "we were never even invited". I am talking about the about to be passed, ridiculous regulations regarding keeping of Honey Bees.  In fact, its these organizations that handed over their membership list to NJ Agri department and further enabled registration & inspection, which now leads to fines and confiscation because most of us are now "violating law" with new regulations being passed. 

Same as firearm laws. Registration, Change Law, Fines and Confiscation. 

I am done with trusting and paying anyone who claims "they got connections" in Trenton and pays themselves a hefty yearly salary for lip service. 

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Rosey: I sympathize because I've volunteered with a few non-profits in my life. It's just incredibly thankless. Everything you do is criticized. And everyone is a critic. When you lose, you get blamed. And when you win, suddenly others will try to take credit for your hard work. It's a tough gig.

And, umm... no one's EVER called me a "ray of golden sunshine". Ummm... I'm not sure what to do with that. LMAO!!!

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I got caught up in Nj2as when I stumbled on a video of him trying to get a carry permit. Then I saw all the other videos and thought, if anything those videos deserve a donation.

It hits home for me because every time I walk into my local police department for a pistol permit - which I have only done a handful of times - the attitude I get is what I would expect if I asked the desk officer to help me bury a body. They can't tell if I'm serious.

One time I commented "please do this at my local post". The response I got was, "why don't you do it?" Besides the obvious "I don't have a society dedicated to it", he's not wrong. We should all do things like that. After all, it's not illegal.

So take from that what you will.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I got caught up in Nj2as when I stumbled on a video of him trying to get a carry permit. Then I saw all the other videos and thought, if anything those videos deserve a donation.

It hits home for me because every time I walk into my local police department for a pistol permit - which I have only done a handful of times - the attitude I get is what I would expect if I asked the desk officer to help me bury a body. They can't tell if I'm serious.

One time I commented "please do this at my local post". The response I got was, "why don't you do it?" Besides the obvious "I don't have a society dedicated to it", he's not wrong. We should all do things like that. After all, it's not illegal.

So take from that what you will.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
 

Please edit paragraph #3 so I can understand you better.  Is "local post" to mean Post Office?  Or did the tapatalk not work right?  I'm losing the meaning of what you wrote.

I get the first two paragraphs.  The burying a body comment put coffee on the monitor :) .  I always want to maintain open communications, and for the record, I'm glad you donated to a 2A group because most just sit here & pontificate OPINIONS w/o any SKIN IN THE GAME! :) 

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42 minutes ago, AlexTheSane said:

What good has the stun gun decision done us?  We still can't carry them.  There is nothing that opens a door that was previously closed with gun rights.  You can now legally own a stun gun in your home, just like you previously could with a gun.

I don't know where you got that info, but most here believe you are completely wrong.

Re my contribution you referenced earlier, besides my money. I have done many things including attending Trenton , monmouth county brookdale college hearings and at this point I don't see a thing changed, until national reciprocity passes. The corruption is bigger than you and I.

 

I am not you adversary, rather a frustrated disgruntled NJ Gunowner. I admire what any group attempts to do to restore our 2a rights.

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14 minutes ago, Downtownv said:

I don't know where you got that info, but most here believe you are completely wrong.

Re my contribution you referenced earlier, besides my money. I have done many things including attending Trenton , monmouth county brookdale college hearings and at this point I don't see a thing changed, until national reciprocity passes. The corruption is bigger than you and I.

 

I am not you adversary, rather a frustrated disgruntled NJ Gunowner. I admire what any group attempts to do to restore our 2a rights.

Self defense is not a reason to carry a knife, why would it be a reason to carry a taser?

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3 minutes ago, AlexTheSane said:

Self defense is not a reason to carry a knife, why would it be a reason to carry a taser?

Hmmm did I see "Self Defense" anywhere, I typed?

 

No I didn't.

 and neither did you.

You do what you think works for you and I'll do what I think works for me.

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27 minutes ago, Downtownv said:

Hmmm did I see "Self Defense" anywhere, I typed?

 

No I didn't.

 and neither did you.

You do what you think works for you and I'll do what I think works for me.

What legal and legitimate purpose does a taser have other than self defense that you could claim to an officer when questioned why you're carrying one?

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41 minutes ago, AlexTheSane said:

What legal and legitimate purpose does a taser have other than self defense that you could claim to an officer when questioned why you're carrying one?

There a whole Different thread on tasers, please refer to it there.

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1 hour ago, Downtownv said:

I don't know where you got that info, but most here believe you are completely wrong.

Re my contribution you referenced earlier, besides my money. I have done many things including attending Trenton , monmouth county brookdale college hearings and at this point I don't see a thing changed, until national reciprocity passes. The corruption is bigger than you and I.

 

I am not you adversary, rather a frustrated disgruntled NJ Gunowner. I admire what any group attempts to do to restore our 2a rights.

He got the info from "the Horse's mouth":  Nappen.  Nappen wrote the Book on NJ gun, knife & weapons law and was seen backing-up Schmutter on several Facebook Gun Group pages.  Two months ago (October).  Nappen also put it on his personal page, which is public.  Within 24-48 hours after the ruling took effect!  Another instant social media communication!  Seems the extremely-vetted & well-intention-ed lawsuit didn't have all of the "t's crossed & i's dotted".  So it (the devices) get classified as an "other weapon", which is still ILLEGAL to carry in the PRNJ.  So tasers & stun guns went from being completely illegal to being a NJ residents newest suppository :) 

We had to print a retraction on our Facebook page over a month & 1/2 ago.

I understand you're frustrated & disgruntled.  Imagine how I must feel dealing with all of the laws, the ongoing situation, the election, and ALL OF THE DISGRUNTLED GUN OWNERS, lol?  Yet I'm still here, and so is Alex ( a seasoned member of our Shows & Community Outreach Committee), and we'll continue to try to spread the truth!  For the record, I was elated when Mark Cheeseman (a Coalition supporter btw) sued those sum-bitches & won!  Mark has teamed-up with CNJFO Treasurer Jack Pyle (not on this forum), and they are in the process of establishing a lawsuit fund.  This fund will mirror other non-profits that have already brought forth successful suits.  That's all I can say for now :)   I hope you'll watch us on Facebook, or better yet, JOIN us to help us in the fight!  http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us .

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6 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

  So you either have to go THERE:  http://www.facebook.com/cnjfo or just believe me or Mrs. Peel (who "gets it"). 

Yes, we need to promote our successes better.  Want to volunteer for the job?  It pays zilch and they'll always be people SOMEWHERE who didn't see what you were doing within the confines of their small world.  :) 

I don’t disagree with anything of substance you have said. My only comment would be that in this day and age it may be advisable to expand to other social media platforms besides Facebook. 

As much grief as they got sometimes, I liked how the SAPPA group mirrored their major articles/milestones here. Really helped those limited to this echo chamber stay aware writhing fishing the interwebs

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ON the subject at hand, every movement needs different personalities to fit different roles. It’s ok and preferable to have a good cop, bad cop, blowhard, schmoozer, etc. the key things everyone working the same plan. That’s what we don’t see between the various orgs in NJ.  

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I'll only comment on Scott Bach.

He sucks. 

He, in the CR initiation meeting told firearms folks that were joining the range several lies that essentially were meant to scare them into falling into lock-step with the anti's.  Now, if the info presented was a bit more level headed and he said, in effect: "It's not illegal, but it's also not a good idea" I wouldn't have taken issue with it.  However he presented at least two things as being illegal that aren't.  They aren't good ideas, tho.

I emailed him personally and called him out.  For his fear mongering, he sucks.  Unfortunately I am a member of his range as it's, for me, the best value in my area.  So, I pay my dues and that's about it.  

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18 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

ON the subject at hand, every movement needs different personalities to fit different roles. It’s ok and preferable to have a good cop, bad cop, blowhard, schmoozer, etc. the key things everyone working the same plan. That’s what we don’t see between the various orgs in NJ.  

I agree with you 100% all the way up to the "That's what we don't see between the various orgs in NJ".  Every group except one is already on the same page.  NJSAFECON saw to that.  The Federation of New Jersey Sportsmen's Clubs attended NJSAFECON & set-up a table as a Vendor.  By doing so, they got the attention of NJOA.  Second Amendment Women-SAW, CNJFO, NRA, NRA-ILA, and ANJR&PC were already "ALL-IN" as Vendors at NJSAFECON!  The only "Group" unable to play nice is NJ2AS.  Anthony Colandro is planning a 2A group podcast where all of the groups that work TOGETHER will be on a single Ginormus podcast for Gun For Hire Radio!  

If you didn't get the memo that almost 100% of the groups supporting the Second Amendment are trying to work TOGETHER, then perhaps you didn't attend NJSAFECON or watch any of John Willett's videos from the conference?  ICYMI there isn't any "infighting", "egos", or anything else in the way.  Just a single guy that boycotted the event the day after slandering Bach, Colandro and others in a feeble attempt to cover-up his bumbling of the proposed Ramsey Range & be the center of attention :) .

Your idea about venturing-out on social media platforms beyond Facebook is a great one.  Do YOU have any time to help us copy & paste?  I'm burnt-out already & can't "channel-guard" more than Facebook & HERE, lol!

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If the various groups are coordinating and have a plan, that’s fantastic. Notice I said “see”. That same sentiment was expressed in your other thread on the subject by many people. The impression I see (here at least) is that folks are weary from past promises of other orgs that haven’t lived up to expectations. Showing, announcing, highlighting any cooperation and coordination between the orgs could help rebuild the trust and enthusiasm.  It could also be that folks here are just keyboard warriors and assholes. Jury is still out on that..

and don’t take anything above as an inditement of your posts. You’ve provided a lot more info on what’s going on than I’ve seen in a while.      

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10 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

Your idea about venturing-out on social media platforms beyond Facebook is a great one.  Do YOU have any time to help us copy & paste?  I'm burnt-out already & can't "channel-guard" more than Facebook & HERE, lol!

I’m the last person you want running any social media campaign. I’m not social any my wife is my “Facebook proxy”. 

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I’m the last person you want running any social media campaign. I’m not social any my wife is my “Facebook proxy”. 
Better that way, all I would do on Facebook is internet fight people. It's a waste.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

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On 12/14/2017 at 10:01 PM, voyager9 said:

If the various groups are coordinating and have a plan, that’s fantastic. Notice I said “see”. That same sentiment was expressed in your other thread on the subject by many people. The impression I see (here at least) is that folks are weary from past promises of other orgs that haven’t lived up to expectations. Showing, announcing, highlighting any cooperation and coordination between the orgs could help rebuild the trust and enthusiasm.  It could also be that folks here are just keyboard warriors and assholes. Jury is still out on that..

and don’t take anything above as an inditement of your posts. You’ve provided a lot more info on what’s going on than I’ve seen in a while.      

I think it's a little bit of both, lol!  Right now I have already written Anthony for his assistance with coordination AND scheduling the big podcast.  Since folks will have to take at least part of the day off from work, I hope to wrangle a lunch meeting of all of the invited guests at the nearby Park West Diner on Rt. 46 West (right before McBride Ave. exit for GFH).  

Indictment?  NOPE!  Not even close to passing that kind of judgement on your posts!  I try to provide as much info as my fingers will let me.  Arthritis sucks.  So thanks for the kudos!  I'll try to keep the forum informed.  Obviously some excitement (in a positive way) is fuel for the fire of "consideration" when it's late or I'm tired.  Much easier mentally to type a "thank-you" for joining or helping than it is to write "War & Peace" on everything and then have the "Misfit Crew" chime-in.  I do appreciate everything you do behind the scenes to help us!

Rosey

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He got the info from "the Horse's mouth":  Nappen.  Nappen wrote the Book on NJ gun, knife & weapons law and was seen backing-up Schmutter on several Facebook Gun Group pages.  Two months ago (October).  Nappen also put it on his personal page, which is public.  Within 24-48 hours after the ruling took effect!  Another instant social media communication!  Seems the extremely-vetted & well-intention-ed lawsuit didn't have all of the "t's crossed & i's dotted".  So it (the devices) get classified as an "other weapon", which is still ILLEGAL to carry in the PRNJ.  So tasers & stun guns went from being completely illegal to being a NJ residents newest suppository [emoji4] 

We had to print a retraction on our Facebook page over a month & 1/2 ago.

I understand you're frustrated & disgruntled.  Imagine how I must feel dealing with all of the laws, the ongoing situation, the election, and ALL OF THE DISGRUNTLED GUN OWNERS, lol?  Yet I'm still here, and so is Alex ( a seasoned member of our Shows & Community Outreach Committee), and we'll continue to try to spread the truth!  For the record, I was elated when Mark Cheeseman (a Coalition supporter btw) sued those sum-bitches & won!  Mark has teamed-up with CNJFO Treasurer Jack Pyle (not on this forum), and they are in the process of establishing a lawsuit fund.  This fund will mirror other non-profits that have already brought forth successful suits.  That's all I can say for now [emoji4]   I hope you'll watch us on Facebook, or better yet, JOIN us to help us in the fight!  http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us .

 

Because Nappen said it that makes it correct? Were you being sarcastic? Or are you serious?

 

I am hoping sarcastic because I have liked most of your posts up until that one.

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On 12/13/2017 at 2:42 PM, Downtownv said:

IMHO you can Put Evan Nappen in the category of useless. He does however promote himself, at the expense of gun owners.

 

Try calling his office, don't count on a return call unless you were a high profile arrest.

I called 4 times for him at his office. My problem was 8 months getting a nh carry permit.  Never did his office return my call. 

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4 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 

Because Nappen said it that makes it correct? Were you being sarcastic? Or are you serious?

 

I am hoping sarcastic because I have liked most of your posts up until that one.

Short 11pm answer:  Yes, love him or hate him, he wrote the book.  Mind you I don't agree with EVERYTHING he writes (a loaded mag = a loaded gun), but on his appraisal of Schmutter's work on the new stun gun & taser law, with the "other weapon" statute still on the books, common sense tells me no matter who came up with the opinion, that in all probability it holds water.  Keep in mind that no one has been charged YET with illegal possession and/or transportation of a stun gun.  I don't like the opinion, but I can't say it's a bad one.  So yes, in this case, I'm dead serious!

As rough around the edges as you or others may take what's coming next, please consider that sometimes the truth hurts:

"I am hoping sarcastic because I have liked most of your posts up until that one."

Whether or not you like my posts is of little concern to me.  For I deal only in facts and not conjecture.  I don't participate here, on this forum, to be "liked"; rather I do it as a public service in the same way a newspaper would print a NEWS story.  The story I wrote about stun guns was misleading and factually wrong, and upon learning THAT, I wrote & published a RETRACTION that reversed my opinion of the legality of walking around in public with a taser and/or stun gun.  I didn't enjoy doing it.  But it was the RIGHT thing to do, so it was done!  Two of NJ's most well respected gun law attorneys concurred on their opinion.  I reprinted it.  More work for me w/o a paycheck (NONE of us at CNJFO get paid)!

In plain English, you'll never get BS'd from me.  "I call 'em as I see 'em"!  Sometimes (MOST of the time) you'll agree and maybe sometimes, on very RARE occasion, you won't.  And that's okay, for neither of us is perfect.

Have a great Christmas.  I hope you'll consider joining a Second Amendment group that prints the truth instead of what you want to hear...

Rosey

http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us 

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8 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

I called 4 times for him at his office. My problem was 8 months getting a nh carry permit.  Never did his office return my call. 

Small potatoes Ed.  The fee for retaining him is 5x-10x the cost of the NH CCW permit.  Like spendin' a dollar on a dime :) 

Not having one of his interns return your call explaining "the dollar spent to get the dime":  a MISTAKE!  One customer service issue to fan the flames.  I hope you finally did get your permit?

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On 12/14/2017 at 9:35 PM, Bully said:

He, in the CR initiation meeting told firearms folks that were joining the range several lies that essentially were meant to scare them into falling into lock-step with the anti's. 

What did he say that you found objectionable?

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8 hours ago, Golf battery said:

I called 4 times for him at his office. My problem was 8 months getting a nh carry permit.  Never did his office return my call. 

He never will,.. screw him!

He read that he was a celebrity, don't you know...

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