Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 28, 2017 On behalf of the Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners, as its' Vice President, I spent some time this morning on a legal case involving an arrest for possession of a deadly weapon. The 22 yr old out of state resident was stopped for a MV violation and had a loaded scattergun in the backseat of his pick-up. Spent 6 days in jail before being bailed-out. Filed for PTI upon his release. Has an attorney here in NJ that I've spoken with this morning about the case. I forwarded said attorney AG Hoffman's 10-page Sept. 2014 memorandum dealing with out-of-state law-abiding citizens that unknowing commit felonies by bringing firearms into NJ. Attorney doesn't want a big splash YET, so I can't release any more details. I'm posting this here because I just want you folks to know & realize that we can't broadcast every little detail of what we at the Coalition accomplish on a day-to-day basis. Hopefully the PTI will be approved in February PRIOR to this case going to trial. If the attorney asks for our assistance in making a media spectacle of this incident, I'll be sure to enlist YOUR HELP IN DOING SO. Right now, we're on STAND-BY. In the meantime, if you wish to help our mission, please consider doing so in what ever capacity you can muster. And now for the shameless plug: It's not too late to get a 2017 tax deduction thru a donation to the Coalition: http://www.cnjfo.com/Donate or to JOIN: http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us Thank you for your time, dollars and consideration! Happy New Year from all of us at the Coalition! Dave Rosenthal, VP CNJFO 10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,793 Posted December 28, 2017 Thanks Rosie - your efforts appreciated. (Current CNJFO member here). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted December 28, 2017 @Smokin .50 Thats awesome. Just joined as token of appreciation. Keep up good work. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 28, 2017 Keep up the good work.What is a scattergun?Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted December 28, 2017 Shotgun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted December 28, 2017 While this sounds like a nice act of kindness, there is a flip side to it. Why on earth should out of state residents get better treatment than actual residents of the socialist people's republic of New Jermany. Nothing against any individuals, but I would like to see the full force of the law used on all these out of state residents with them given the maximum sentences. Then and only then might something be done to change these laws. Why should you or I face the cold hand of the law but those that don't live her get off - that is plain wrong. The law should be the law, and most of these gun laws should not be the law. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 28, 2017 I thought maybe sawed off. So the issue was that it was loaded?Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 28, 2017 While this sounds like a nice act of kindness, there is a flip side to it. Why on earth should out of state residents get better treatment than actual residents of the socialist people's republic of New Jermany. Nothing against any individuals, but I would like to see the full force of the law used on all these out of state residents with them given the maximum sentences. Then and only then might something be done to change these laws. Why should you or I face the cold hand of the law but those that don't live her get off - that is plain wrong. The law should be the law, and most of these gun laws should not be the law.You definitely have a point. However they should really start with enforcing gun laws in Newark, Jersey City, Camden, etc. A local resident in our cities can get caught carrying a full auto sub gun and the charges magically disappear and they are back on the street in under a year. If any of us were just caught with the firearm without the underlying charges we would be in prison for a decade. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted December 28, 2017 We need these at every border crossing! 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted December 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, Howard said: While this sounds like a nice act of kindness, there is a flip side to it. Why on earth should out of state residents get better treatment than actual residents of the socialist people's republic of New Jermany. Nothing against any individuals, but I would like to see the full force of the law used on all these out of state residents with them given the maximum sentences. Then and only then might something be done to change these laws. Why should you or I face the cold hand of the law but those that don't live her get off - that is plain wrong. The law should be the law, and most of these gun laws should not be the law. My only hope is that eventually, when one of us gets caught in the same circumstances and not benefiting from the same kindness, we can use that to sue the state for uneven, capricious enforcement of the law and therefore invalidating it. At least I hope that the end game is somewhere along those lines. Better yet, I hope there's some sort of strategy behind it as opposed to going about it piecemeal. But, I absolutely agree with you. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted December 28, 2017 After January 16th all bets are off, A disgrace to all free irish who fought for freedom will become the governor. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted December 28, 2017 I do like the billboard idea and I would rather spend my money fighting tyranny with that than by supporting "our" NRA state affiliate or other saviors who will deliver us from evil . I would go for the one with the likes of Hitler, weinberg, Stalin, and shumer. you know the one about asking the experts. of course the sign should be multi-lingual. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldRetiree 38 Posted December 28, 2017 Please forgive my ignorance, but is there anyplace in the US (and/or any situations) where "driving around with a loaded 'scattergun' in the backseat of a pickup truck" legal? At first blush, as described above, it's hard for me to consider this event as an innocent, inadvertent mistake that makes it deserving of my concern or support. In my judgement, there have been many cases in the the past that were worthy of concern on the part of NJ gun owners, but I'm not so sure of this one, as described. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Howard said: While this sounds like a nice act of kindness, there is a flip side to it. Why on earth should out of state residents get better treatment than actual residents of the socialist people's republic of New Jermany. Nothing against any individuals, but I would like to see the full force of the law used on all these out of state residents with them given the maximum sentences. Then and only then might something be done to change these laws. Why should you or I face the cold hand of the law but those that don't live her get off - that is plain wrong. The law should be the law, and most of these gun laws should not be the law. Why is there not a dislike button? That post is very New Jersey of you :thumbdown: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted December 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, carl_g said: Why is there not a dislike button? That post is very New Jersey of you :thumbdown: We agree to not agree. There is no reason out of state people should be treated BETTER than in state people. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, GrumpyOldRetiree said: Please forgive my ignorance, but is there anyplace in the US (and/or any situations) where "driving around with a loaded 'scattergun' in the backseat of a pickup truck" legal? At first blush, as described above, it's hard for me to consider this event as an innocent, inadvertent mistake that makes it deserving of my concern or support. In my judgement, there have been many cases in the the past that were worthy of concern on the part of NJ gun owners, but I'm not so sure of this one, as described. Ever seen a gun rack in a pickup truck before? They have them in.. wait for it.. merica.. innocent until proven guilty. what crime was committed? Intent of crime... well that’s interesting. 35 minutes ago, Howard said: We agree to not agree. There is no reason out of state people should be treated BETTER than in state people. @carl_g he’s correct. 14th Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 28, 2017 If scattergun means federally legal length shotgun then just about every free state it is legal to have one in the backseatSent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldRetiree 38 Posted December 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, Zeke said: Ever seen a gun rack in a pickup truck before? They have them in.. wait for it.. merica.. Why...yes I have seen a gun rack in the back of a pickup truck, but, in PA, if it was loaded it would be a crime (as per attorney Josh Prince...see https://blog.princelaw.com/2014/02/17/the-great-pennsylvanian-trunk-gun/) . In addition, according to Mr. Prince, it would violate the Uniform Firearms Act. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldRetiree 38 Posted December 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, capt14k said: If scattergun means federally legal length shotgun then just about every free state it is legal to have one in the backseat Did you miss the "loaded" part? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, GrumpyOldRetiree said: Why...yes I have seen a gun rack in the back of a pickup truck, but, in PA, if it was loaded it would be a crime (as per attorney Josh Prince...see https://blog.princelaw.com/2014/02/17/the-great-pennsylvanian-trunk-gun/) . In addition, according to Mr. Prince, it would violate the Uniform Firearms Act. Site what ever you want. Drink whatever you want. what crime was committed with a firearm? A mugging? A robbery? A hold up? A stick up? A home invasion? nope, jus bearing a firearm 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 28, 2017 Did you miss the "loaded" part?Yes I did. It is actually illegal in PA to have loaded shotgun. However other states it is perfectly legal to have one mounted and loaded like the police have in their cruisers or anywhere else in the vehicle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, GrumpyOldRetiree said: Please forgive my ignorance, but is there anyplace in the US (and/or any situations) where "driving around with a loaded 'scattergun' in the backseat of a pickup truck" legal? At first blush, as described above, it's hard for me to consider this event as an innocent, inadvertent mistake that makes it deserving of my concern or support. In my judgement, there have been many cases in the the past that were worthy of concern on the part of NJ gun owners, but I'm not so sure of this one, as described. As to the geography question, yes there are several states in "MERICA" as Zeke just pointed out (THANKS Zeke--and I mean it!) where gun racks in pick-ups are as common as a key-chain. His dad told him to bring the shotgun to protect himself, which he did. Dad gave it to him when he was NINE yrs old (back in Texas). Parents live in PA now. Kid works a trade & just ASSUMED that since he wasn't robbin' banks or knockin'-over liquor stores, he had the SAME RIGHTS as he does where he lives. At the end of the day, is it worth spending $50K plus per year to give this kid free room & board for 7-10 years? To ruin his life over a stupid, technical violation of law where NO INTENT TO DO HARM can be proven? Look, I get it. We can't carry & everybody has a "hard-on" for out-of-staters that receive special treatment. And the kid didn't utilize good judgement & keep his yap shut! Now ponder THIS: The 4 guys who killed Dustin Friedland w/ a round to the head while carjacking him & his wife at the Short Hills Mall (FELONY-MURDER) 4 Decembers ago all plead-out to super-light sentences! So do we help the hangman tie his noose (because we can't carry & we're MAD AT THE WORLD) or do we show support for a kid with a spotless record, that did what he was told while trying to work & pay taxes? 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted December 28, 2017 just read another story on NJ.com about a florida women in frenchtown, hunterdon county caught with a handgun. these stories need to be made nationwide, NJ NRA affiliate, WHERE ARE YOU. The world wonders. What I dont understand is why did a cop charge a 59yo florida women, why the F%^$ didn't just explain NJ's F%$@ up laws and let her on her way, That cop is probably at the watering hole right now explaining how he disarmed this lady and how much of a Friggin hero he is. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted December 28, 2017 As to the geography question, yes there are several states in "MERICA" as Zeke just pointed out (THANKS Zeke--and I mean it!) where gun racks in pick-ups are as common as a key-chain. His dad told him to bring the shotgun to protect himself, which he did. Dad gave it to him when he was NINE yrs old (back in Texas). Parents live in PA now. Kid works a trade & just ASSUMED that since he wasn't robbin' banks or knockin'-over liquor stores, he had the SAME RIGHTS as he does where he lives. At the end of the day, is it worth spending $50K plus per year to give this kid free room & board for 7-10 years? To ruin his life over a stupid, technical violation of law where NO INTENT TO DO HARM can be proven? Look, I get it. We can't carry & everybody has a "hard-on" for out-of-staters that receive special treatment. And the kid didn't utilize good judgement & keep his yap shut! Now ponder THIS: The 4 guys who killed Dustin Friedland w/ a round to the head while carjacking him & his wife at the Short Hills Mall (FELONY-MURDER) 4 Decembers ago all plead-out to super-light sentences! So do we help the hangman tie his noose (because we can't carry & we're MAD AT THE WORLD) or do we show support for a kid with a spotless record, that did what he was told while trying to work & pay taxes? Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Nobody is mad at the world as you put it. Yes it is a matter of fairness. The Short Hills four should be in jail for life, or better yet in the ground. This crime is far lessor and should be punished less harshly. That said it is plain and simply wrong to treat non-residents better than residents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, revenger said: just read another story on NJ.com about a florida women in frenchtown, hunterdon county caught with a handgun. these stories need to be made nationwide, NJ NRA affiliate, WHERE ARE YOU. The world wonders. What I dont understand is why did a cop charge a 59yo florida women, why the F%^$ didn't just explain NJ's F%$@ up laws and let her on her way, That cop is probably and the watering hole right now explaining how he disarmed this lady and how much of a Friggin hero he is. To be honest. I am certain lots of cops have let people go with a stern warning! You don't hear about those stories because I doubt their superiors would approve many times. Most cops are great judges of character and I would say would not want to ruin someones life over a simple mistake! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted December 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Howard said: Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Nobody is mad at the world as you put it. Yes it is a matter of fairness. The Short Hills four should be in jail for life, or better yet in the ground. This crime is far lessor and should be punished less harshly. That said it is plain and simply wrong to treat non-residents better than residents. Something tells me this preferential treatment of the Governor pardoning out of state violators will end in a couple weeks anyway! This whole debate is moot at this point! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldRetiree 38 Posted December 28, 2017 35 minutes ago, capt14k said: Yes I did. It is actually illegal in PA to have loaded shotgun. However other states it is perfectly legal to have one mounted and loaded like the police have in their cruisers or anywhere else in the vehicle. Just for my education (as I apologized for for my ignorance), are there any states near or around NJ that it is legal to carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle? (excluding special cases like handicapped hunters during hunting season) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, revenger said: just read another story on NJ.com about a florida women in frenchtown, hunterdon county caught with a handgun. these stories need to be made nationwide, NJ NRA affiliate, WHERE ARE YOU. The world wonders. What I dont understand is why did a cop charge a 59yo florida women, why the F%^$ didn't just explain NJ's F%$@ up laws and let her on her way, That cop is probably at the watering hole right now explaining how he disarmed this lady and how much of a Friggin hero he is. This is what was told to me f2f h2h. “ what laws do you not want us to follow? And when would you like us not to follow them?” be angry at the lawmakers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,417 Posted December 28, 2017 Rosie, Thanks for helping to keep someone’s life unfucked. Yes, it appears he made a mistake and we could argue for weeks on if he deserves this attention where a local resident wouldn’t. At the end of the day does what this kid did warrant ruining his life? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 28, 2017 Just for my education (as I apologized for for my ignorance), are there any states near or around NJ that it is legal to carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle? (excluding special cases like handicapped hunters during hunting season) I do not believe so. No States to the North is it legal. Unless Maine Constitutional Carry now allows it. Vermont does not. West not until you get to Indiana. South Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina would be the closest. Texas it is legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites