1LtCAP 4,259 Posted December 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said: You have my permission to use "pipe noodles" in your advertising... but I'd like a modest cut of any extra business it reaps! I closed the dampers years ago in the master bedroom; it's still too much heat. To my novice eye, they just sized it wrong. There's TONS of baseboard in the hot room, a tiny little length in the cold room. I think they just calculated it wrong. But for the moment, I'll focus on all the air leaks from windows, doors, etc. Oh, and I'll take a break from whining and remind myself that there's actually warm-blooded creatures, including homeless PEOPLE, who are living outside in these temps. Horrifying thought! GREAT idea! Instead of putting them curbside every year, I'll find a place to stash them in the yard where they'll have some cover. Thx! no sweat. this is my 3rd year running mine, and i'm still trying to figure it out just right. this year, i think i'm a little over-seasoned on the wood, as i've not gotten more than 3 or 4 hours burn time.....but i don't care. i'm perfectly willing to trade off effort in exchange for halving my oil bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted December 31, 2017 You touch my quirky, charming random width knotty pine floors...and it's war, buddy! I'll suffer (to a degree) for authenticity and preservation.We can do staple up from below the floors and save what you currently have. There are methods to my madness... I've never left a job with a frowning customer.. of course the ceilings would all have to be ripped down to do it. And insulated with foil back insulation facing upwards towards the tubing. We leave a small air pocket between the foil and the pipe in each bay. And it will heat your entire house with 105° water instead of 180° water. Significant energy savings, no more air moving around the house making everything dusty, no more furniture placement issues, completely silent, and significantly increases the value of the home. Also most importantly perfectly even heat in every room, regardless of where you're standing. Every object in the room touching the floor becomes a radiator, including people. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 31, 2017 We can do staple up from below the floors and save what you currently have. There are methods to my madness... I've never left a job with a frowning customer.. of course the ceilings would all have to be ripped down to do it. And insulated with foil back insulation facing upwards towards the tubing. We leave a small air pocket between the foil and the pipe in each bay. And it will heat your entire house with 105° water instead of 180° water. Significant energy savings, no more air moving around the house making everything dusty, no more furniture placement issues, completely silent, and significantly increases the value of the home. Also most importantly perfectly even heat in every room, regardless of where you're standing. Every object in the room touching the floor becomes a radiator, including people. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk I concur. However I don't venture North of the Raritan River so DeerSlayer is who you want to call. I kick myself every year for not tearing out the crap hot air heat in my house when I bought it. I bought basically a shell when the builder went under (4 of them to be exact and kept one). Outside was done except the deck. Mechanicals were done inside, but not insulation or drywall. I tore out all the pex and gas flex, and installed domestic copper and domestic black pipe. Also ended up moving and replacing most of the ABS because I reconfigured baths and kitchen. I talked myself out of installing radiant because I only planned on staying 2 years. 10 years later and I deal with higher gas bills and high electric bills in the winter. I added TruSteam Humidifiers to make the hot air heat more bearable, but they add to the electric bill. Everytime I go to my parents house I am jealous. They have radiant and cast iron baseboard. I will never make this mistake again. Deerslayer have you installed radiant cooling or crown cold water systems yet? I haven't myself but they sound interesting. The giant house the guy built in the Ozarks is cooled with radiant in the walls. By the way I know how you feel@Deerslayer. I was doing the same yesterday til around this time. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted December 31, 2017 I concur. However I don't venture North of the Raritan River so DeerSlayer is who you want to call. I kick myself every year for not tearing out the crap hot air heat in my house when I bought it. I bought basically a shell when the builder went under (4 of them to be exact and kept one). Outside was done except the deck. Mechanicals were done inside, but not insulation or drywall. I tore out all the pex and gas flex, and installed domestic copper and domestic black pipe. Also ended up moving and replacing most of the ABS because I reconfigured baths and kitchen. I talked myself out of installing radiant because I only planned on staying 2 years. 10 years later and I deal with higher gas bills and high electric bills in the winter. I added TruSteam Humidifiers to make the hot air heat more bearable, but they add to the electric bill. Everytime I go to my parents house I am jealous. They have radiant and cast iron baseboard. I will never make this mistake again. Deerslayer have you installed radiant cooling or crown cold water systems yet? I haven't myself but they sound interesting. The giant house the guy built in the Ozarks is cooled with radiant in the walls. By the way I know how you feel[mention=7008]Deerslayer[/mention]. I was doing the same yesterday til around this time. Bro, screw the True steams, constant call backs. Even using RO water in them. I switched to the AprilAir so much better for steam humidifiers. Try them you won't be sorry. Negative, I have however done plenty of chilled water systems in commercial. And a few geothermal cool water AC systems though. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 31, 2017 Bro, screw the True steams, constant call backs. Even using RO water in them. I switched to the AprilAir so much better for steam humidifiers. Try them you won't be sorry. Negative, I have however done plenty of chilled water systems in commercial. And a few geothermal cool water AC systems though. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk I haven't had problems with my Honeywell TruSteam Units, but I also maintain them. I also don't install many of them because we don't deal with hot air heat. However I will check out the AprilAire. When I installed mine Honeywell was the only one making them as far as I knew.I've done the geothermal as well. I really want to try some of the new wall radiant and crown water cooling systems. Maybe in my next house.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted December 31, 2017 Just so to take this tread in a another direction, yet. Anyone know where I can beg, rent, borrow or steal a CI radiator assembly tool for next spring/summer? I don't wanna spend 300.00 on a one time use tool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,417 Posted December 31, 2017 This thread has me thinking. Here I sit in my pre-1776 with a draft, ideas, and no time... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 31, 2017 27 minutes ago, voyager9 said: This thread has me thinking. Here I sit in my pre-1776 with a draft, ideas, and no time... Maybe you need bifocals or a potbelly stove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,417 Posted December 31, 2017 38 minutes ago, Zeke said: Maybe you need bifocals or a potbelly stove How about a tri-corner hat and a muzzle loader? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, voyager9 said: How about a tri-corner hat and a muzzle loader? Or macaroni? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted December 31, 2017 Just so to take this tread in a another direction, yet. Anyone know where I can beg, rent, borrow or steal a CI radiator assembly tool for next spring/summer? I don't wanna spend 300.00 on a one time use tool.Why would you want to take one apart? Or put one together? You can buy them in one piece with as many sections as you want. Besides to assemble a radiator you just use threaded rod and tighten the nuts. Pulls all the sections together. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 31, 2017 Why would you want to take one apart? Or put one together? You can buy them in one piece with as many sections as you want. Besides to assemble a radiator you just use threaded rod and tighten the nuts. Pulls all the sections together. Sent from my SM-G900V using TapatalkI agree it certainly isn't worth the effort. If it is an old fashioned radiator trade it with one of the places that specialize in refurbishing them. I've bought large ornamental radiators for much less than a new Burnham costs.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted December 31, 2017 I agree it certainly isn't worth the effort. If it is an old fashioned radiator trade it with one of the places that specialize in refurbishing them. I've bought large ornamental radiators for much less than a new Burnham costs.Sent from my iPad using TapatalkThere's a place in New Haven CT that buys old ornamental rads, and they refurbish them. Way easier than doing it yourself only to get it all done and find out you don't actually know how to install a push nipple properly. I've done large boiler sections many times. That's probably easier then messing with a tiny radiator.. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 31, 2017 There's a place in New Haven CT that buys old ornamental rads, and they refurbish them. Way easier than doing it yourself only to get it all done and find out you don't actually know how to install a push nipple properly. I've done large boiler sections many times. That's probably easier then messing with a tiny radiator.. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk I know the place in CT you are talking about. There was also a guy right in Farmingdale, NJ as well. Not sure if he is still around it's been a few years since I dealt with him. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted December 31, 2017 It's a CI baseboard radiator, 4 sections of 2 ft each. One section sprung a leak.I don't the brand to buy a section to match. So, I'm going to replace the whole thing.There's no way to buy and handle that in one piece assembled. I could buy a modern sheet metal/aluminum fins baseboard for home depot. But the whole house has CI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 31, 2017 It's a CI baseboard radiator, 4 sections of 2 ft each. One section sprung a leak.I don't the brand to buy a section to match. So, I'm going to replace the whole thing.There's no way to buy and handle that in one piece assembled. I could buy a modern sheet metal/aluminum fins baseboard for home depot. But the whole house has CI.You don't want to mix cast iron and slant fin, especially on the same zone. If you are talking about cast iron baseboard you don't need any special tools. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted December 31, 2017 33 minutes ago, capt14k said: You don't want to mix cast iron and slant fin, especially on the same zone. If you are talking about cast iron baseboard you don't need any special tools. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk And that's why I have to buy a whole new 8FT total length that comes in sections. Something like this: http://www.consumersplumbing.com/site/consumers/productdetail.exc?cmd=630_view_prod&isApp=true&page=1&co_id=630&item_id=95779&prod_id=8441#shipping-calc And this is the tool that would make the the assembly easier and safer. http://www.consumersplumbing.com/site/consumers/productdetail.exc?cmd=630_view_prod&isApp=true&page=1&co_id=630&item_id=95779&prod_id=12312 I suppose I could laid down the sections nice and flat and whack them with a dead blow hammer until the push nipples set but I would rather not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 31, 2017 And that's why I have to buy a whole new 8FT total length that comes in sections. Something like this:http://www.consumersplumbing.com/site/consumers/productdetail.exc?cmd=630_view_prod&isApp=true&page=1&co_id=630&item_id=95779&prod_id=8441#shipping-calc And this is the tool that would make the the assembly easier and safer.http://www.consumersplumbing.com/site/consumers/productdetail.exc?cmd=630_view_prod&isApp=true&page=1&co_id=630&item_id=95779&prod_id=12312 I suppose I could laid down the sections nice and flat and whack them with a dead blow hammer until the push nipples set but I would rather not. Yes you need the tool to pull them together but they aren't $300 are they? I have my great grandfathers. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted January 1, 2018 The cheapest I found was 260.00 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted January 1, 2018 The cheapest I found was 260.00Wow. They really get you for specialized tools.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted January 1, 2018 coldest room in my house right now is 70F. but i can feel the drafts. oil boiler hasn't run all day other than when we wanted hot water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted January 1, 2018 I didn't notice the drafts until the temp dropped the last few days. I have a door from my garage to the house that has a terrible draft, and French doors to an unheated 3 season room that is blowing a breeze. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB24 37 Posted January 1, 2018 Happy new year. Just another opinion but you said the boiler was approximately sized. Was an actual heat loss calculation done or they just went by square footage. A heat loss calculation takes into account windows ( amount,size,single or double pane), same with doors, walls( 2x4,2x6,insulated or not), ceiling and floor insulation, room size. After that a boiler size and amount of baseboard needed in each room is calculated. Each of the above items has a certain heat loss factor so if the system was properly sized it should reach the heat setting on the thermostat based on that criteria. What isn’t factored unless you figured air infiltration in the calculation is air leakage. So in your case, in my opinion, if the system was properly sized air infiltration seems to be the biggest issue. Separate zones also help, up and down or living area and sleeping area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted January 1, 2018 Heat Loss Calculation is very important. Many clueless / lazy installers do not properly calculate the heat loss. This leads to too much or too little baseboard in rooms. A personal pet peeve of mine is the use of dummy sections of baseboard. Makes for a crap job. It's not that hard to drill holes to pipe below the floor to get to the next section. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB24 37 Posted January 1, 2018 That’s the difference between quality work and a hack job. Pretty much get what u pay for. Funny thing is plumbing supply’s I deal with don’t charge for a heat loss so it’s just, like u said, lazy or clueless installers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted January 1, 2018 That’s the difference between quality work and a hack job. Pretty much get what u pay for. Funny thing is plumbing supply’s I deal with don’t charge for a heat loss so it’s just, like u said, lazy or clueless installers. That is true. For the radiant I have used plumbing supply's fancy computer program lol. With baseboard like most everything else we still do things the old school way and calculate by hand. We don't use Pex and we bend 1/2" and 3/4" copper. I rarely thread black pipe by hand these days, but we still use it instead of the flexible gas pipe. A finish nail isn't going through black mal pipe. I also only use domestic pipe and fittings. You can't bend the cheap Chinese copper tubing because it splits. Actually I only use American or German Made products period. Ball Valves I use bronze because no one makes a Domestic Brass Ball Valve anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB24 37 Posted January 1, 2018 Talk about the fancy computer programs last job did even calculated what was the best direction for the flow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted January 1, 2018 Slant Fin gives the heat loss calculation program away for free. Enter all the info, and is tells you exactly how much baseboard you need for the room. It even calculates for tight new construction or old drafty houses. Simple, easy, and works. I have the supply house design my radiant systems as well. I use pex or Onyx for radiant. I refuse to use flexible gas pipe (csst). I use black iron only either threaded, or Megapress. I'm fine with either. I use only German made Viega pex systems. And German made Viega pro press copper fittings. Viega Megapress press for black iron as well. I refuse to use junk. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted January 1, 2018 it's 17F outside. i just finished bringing in this weeks worth of wood. it's 77 in the house. on one hand, i wish i'd gone with a free standing stove, 'cause they're a little bigger, and i think would therefor give better heat and longer burn times......but on the other hand? goddam i'm glad i have this thing. also, my nose is numb, lololol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted January 1, 2018 Slant Fin gives the heat loss calculation program away for free. Enter all the info, and is tells you exactly how much baseboard you need for the room. It even calculates for tight new construction or old drafty houses. Simple, easy, and works. I have the supply house design my radiant systems as well. I use pex or Onyx for radiant. I refuse to use flexible gas pipe (csst). I use black iron only either threaded, or Megapress. I'm fine with either. I use only German made Viega pex systems. And German made Viega pro press copper fittings. Viega Megapress press for black iron as well. I refuse to use junk. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk I use the Onix for radiant with Viega controls. If there was any Pex I would trust it would be theirs. The HePex lawsuits are going to surpass Polypropylene. Wirsbo, Zurn, and IPEX. I stay away from all Pex piping. The potable lawsuits will be next. Propress is good stuff, but very expensive. I have the Copper Press but rarely use it. Never got the gas press.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites