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Ray Ray

NRA and New Jersey, finally!

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Maybe there's a lesson in there... for every single one of these ridiculous cases in NJ (or NY, CA, etc.)... immediate coordination with the NRA should take place and they should begin the PR machine rolling. I'm pleased to see the results in this case - as a dues paying member, I'd be really happy to see it happen even more. 

Yeah, yeah, I know... it would be nice if we didn't have these crazy laws at all. But in the meantime, there needs to be firm pushback against these overzealous, frothing at the mouth, anti-2A prosecutors. Enough is enough!

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Just now, Mrs. Peel said:

Maybe there's a lesson in there... for every single one of these ridiculous cases in NJ (or NY, CA, etc.)... immediate coordination with the NRA should take place and they should begin the PR machine rolling. I'm pleased to see the results in this case - as a dues paying member, I'd be really happy to see it happen even more. 

Yeah, yeah, I know... it would be nice if we didn't have these crazy laws at all. But in the meantime, there needs to be firm pushback against these overzealous, frothing at the mouth, anti-2A prosecutors. Enough is enough!

Preach it Sis! 

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Organizations like the NRA are stupid and short-sighted if they think these crazy laws are just going to stay in places like New Jersey and California. As residents leave these states and move elsewhere as well as other demographic shifts Nationwide what they consider to be quote free states quote can just as easily end up having the same kind of b******* laws in only a few years. They really need to to start realizing this and take action

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Hopefully the quarter million dollar man at ANJRPC doesn't sell us out and say it could have been worse. Additionally, it's not a compromise when you get nothing in return. What say you, @gunforhire?

P.S. I have cold weather gear and a shitton of sick days. I'm ready to march. 

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42 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

I hate to sound cynical, but we can march all we want, and we can try to reason with them. But they are just going to ignore us and pass a ton of anti-2A  laws, and smugly pat themselves on the back for being "tough on guns."

disagree

you get 10k patriots in trenton with firearms and they will notice.  You get people to join from all over and grow that civil disobedience, they will notice.  Our rights are not negotiable, we've done too much of that

enough is enough...can you imagine if some group starting popping off anti 2a elected officials?  See how fast they table things then  (not saying I want that to happen that way)

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1 hour ago, Old Glock guy said:

I hate to sound cynical, but we can march all we want, and we can try to reason with them. But they are just going to ignore us and pass a ton of anti-2A  laws, and smugly pat themselves on the back for being "tough on guns."

I'll say it again: lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits... with appeals all the way to SCOTUS. At this point, everything else (marching, appealing to reason, etc.) is rendered pretty much meaningless.  

And when 1 or more 2A organizations file strategic, well thought out cases - with the i's dotted and t's crossed (as best as we non-lawyers can assess anyway) - it will be incumbent on the rest of us to recognize that lawsuits are long, labor-intensive things that COST a bloody fortune. So, as long as they step out smartly on the legal front (and I believe they will - this is a much different situation now as I'm sure these organizations realize), it will be incumbent on us to uncomplainingly, unflinchingly start making regular donations. Because this won't be a cheap process... but it will be a necessary one.

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Lawsuits won't do shit. I mean, they could, and would, but here's the problem.

NJSP don't just randomly kick in someone's door, test out their magazines, fit 16 rounds into one and haul them off to jail.

There's usually a circumstance. Some neighbor calls the cops cause they were cleaning their AR near a window. They're in the middle of a divorce and the spouse decides to play dirty and make a scary phone call. They stop at a diner on the way home from the range and get pulled over coming out of the parking lot for cutting someone off.

Then all the holier-than-thou people come out of the woodwork. "Oh, see, there's more to this story" no shit sherlock, it's called "life" and it's never as simple as you'd like it to be. And it doesn't get supported.

At least, that's been my experience the last ~10 years. Maybe now people will finally snap out of it? And stop the holier-than-thou crap.

I like to point out, Rosa Parks didn't just happen to go and sit down on that bus. She worked for NAACP and was chosen to specifically get on that bus, sit at the front, and refuse to move. Activists had her back, and were willing to go all the way with it. 

That's the difference. I don't recall anyone saying "she should have just moved to the back, cause everyone knows the law, duh!"

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14 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I'll say it again: lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits... with appeals all the way to SCOTUS. At this point, everything else (marching, appealing to reason, etc.) is rendered pretty much meaningless.  

And when 1 or more 2A organizations file strategic, well thought out cases - with the i's dotted and t's crossed (as best as we non-lawyers can assess anyway) - it will be incumbent on the rest of us to recognize that lawsuits are long, labor-intensive things that COST a bloody fortune. So, as long as they step out smartly on the legal front (and I believe they will - this is a much different situation now as I'm sure these organizations realize), it will be incumbent on us to uncomplainingly, unflinchingly start making regular donations. Because this won't be a cheap process... but it will be a necessary one.

Question, you guys know then me, I hope..but how did other places get lawsuits to the higher courts and we can't. D.C. comes to mind

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Because the failed strategy of conservatives in the last 20 years has been to point to the constitution and courts as if they are going to somehow fix things.

You know, the same constitution and courts that allowed all these laws and policies and ideologies to come into existence in the first place.

The system is flawed, I don't see how the same flawed system that allowed this, can somehow fix this. 

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1 minute ago, Bklynracer said:

Question, you guys know then me, I hope..but how did other places get lawsuits to the higher courts and we can't. D.C. comes to mind

Personally, I think most NJ 2A orgs decided to go the route of politicking and negotiation. While Christie was in office and SCOTUS was seriously slanted to the left... maybe that even made sense at the time. I'm not going to judge.

It certainly makes no sense any more - I'm confident that the orgs know that. We'll be seeing lawsuits now that it will be a Murphy administration

1 minute ago, mossburger said:

Because the failed strategy of conservatives in the last 20 years has been to point to the constitution and courts as if they are going to somehow fix things.

You know, the same constitution and courts that allowed all these laws and policies and ideologies to come into existence in the first place.

The system is flawed, I don't see how the same flawed system that allowed this, can somehow fix this. 

The make-up of the courts is ever-so-slowly shifting...both the district courts and SCOTUS... in favor of 2A cases. That's the big difference as I see it. 

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37 minutes ago, mossburger said:

Lawsuits won't do shit. I mean, they could, and would, but here's the problem.

NJSP don't just randomly kick in someone's door, test out their magazines, fit 16 rounds into one and haul them off to jail.

There's usually a circumstance. Some neighbor calls the cops cause they were cleaning their AR near a window. They're in the middle of a divorce and the spouse decides to play dirty and make a scary phone call. They stop at a diner on the way home from the range and get pulled over coming out of the parking lot for cutting someone off.

...

I totally appreciate your point. And yet... DC didn't appeal when they lost their "justifiable need"-type case. Why? Because they were afraid they might lose --- and they were probably under extreme pressure from anti-2A types in states like ours where the implications of that case would have been huge. It's time to bring a case challenging justifiable need in my opinion. We don't need to wait for someone's personal messy "circumstance" to bring that case. It's time. It's overdue. It's an inherently biased law that defies the Bill of Rights.

Same thing with permitting. 30 days is 30 days. It's prescribed by law. Most NJ police dept's don't meet it. In fact, some make a mockery of it (particularly our state police barracks I'm sorry to say). There's no reason on god's green earth why one police department needs 6 months to do what another accomplishes in a week. It's complete B.S. and an abuse of the citizenry.

And same thing with these new proposals to ban certain types of guns or magazines. Why wait for someone to have a messy DV or HD situation? If you're outlawing popular firearms for NJ that are in common use around the country - you're essentially taking away legally purchased property - OR - you're turning people into automatic felons --- all in DIRECT opposition to the Bill of Rights. It should be challenged. Period.

The ONE advantage the 2A cause has on it's side is PASSION. Honestly, if you saw one of our groups getting really smart, competent lawyers bringing lawsuit after lawsuit - diligently and steadily - wouldn't you reach into your pocket and give regular donations? Oh hell, I know I would! (I'd take on extra projects to make it possible). This state is already nearly busted -- how many lawsuits do you think they really want to defend themselves against? And god willing (I pray for this!) - Trump gets more appointments to our district court and a couple more SCOTUS app'ts - well shit, that's ALL a game-changer. We already have a couple of presumably pro-2A judges ASKING "why aren't we taking on a 2A case?". That is ALL in our favor.

My only concern is this: can Trump keep his mouth shut long enough not to get himself impeached?... or to swing the Congress back to Dems in the mid-terms?  For the love of god, please let him last long enough to make enough appointments to create a favorable audience for any pro-2A NJ lawsuits! 

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Mrs Peel,

I agree with your thinking.  There is no way we are going to preserve the few 2A rights we still have once Murphy gets in office with full Democratic control of both houses.  He is going to push this to the very edge and due to ego, push farther to make "his" state with the toughest gun laws.  That said, we should follow the "California model" and file lawsuits for the most serious restrictions (mag limits, semi auto bans, required training, etc.)  This will put them on notice that we mean business.  File appeal to the circuit courts and perhaps it will stop there. If not, SCOTUS will be our only saving grace as the idiots in Trenton are trying to eliminate weapons in "commonly used" for sporting purposes - something that was already ruled thus setting precedent.

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When I saw the headline I thought the NRA was bringing a case to the SCOTUS so I went to our 

NRA   affilate website to see what was going on,     Well I found what I thought I would find NOTHING ,  same old photo with Kim Guadagno ( Kim who )    This means nothing, just the same old story.

same old same old.  

 

The video was a sales pitch for the lawyer thats all.

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2 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

disagree

you get 10k patriots in trenton with firearms and they will notice.  You get people to join from all over and grow that civil disobedience, they will notice.  Our rights are not negotiable, we've done too much of that

enough is enough...can you imagine if some group starting popping off anti 2a elected officials?  See how fast they table things then  (not saying I want that to happen that way)

Well, yes, I guess armed revolution  could work.  But I would be careful discussing it in a public forum.  

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12 hours ago, mossburger said:

Lawsuits won't do shit. I mean, they could, and would, but here's the problem.

NJSP don't just randomly kick in someone's door, test out their magazines, fit 16 rounds into one and haul them off to jail.

There's usually a circumstance. Some neighbor calls the cops cause they were cleaning their AR near a window. They're in the middle of a divorce and the spouse decides to play dirty and make a scary phone call. They stop at a diner on the way home from the range and get pulled over coming out of the parking lot for cutting someone off.

Then all the holier-than-thou people come out of the woodwork. "Oh, see, there's more to this story" no shit sherlock, it's called "life" and it's never as simple as you'd like it to be. And it doesn't get supported.

At least, that's been my experience the last ~10 years. Maybe now people will finally snap out of it? And stop the holier-than-thou crap.

I like to point out, Rosa Parks didn't just happen to go and sit down on that bus. She worked for NAACP and was chosen to specifically get on that bus, sit at the front, and refuse to move. Activists had her back, and were willing to go all the way with it. 

That's the difference. I don't recall anyone saying "she should have just moved to the back, cause everyone knows the law, duh!"

wrong. the laws themselves are illegal. if these orgs would go after THAT, the lawsuits would work very well. 'specially if they get national attention.

11 hours ago, Bklynracer said:

Question, you guys know then me, I hope..but how did other places get lawsuits to the higher courts and we can't. D.C. comes to mind

commifornia too. i believe they successfully stopped every new bill this past year?

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19 minutes ago, Fred2 said:

I get the feeling that this video was not made to help NJ, but rather to use us as an example of what can happen when you don't support the NRA, and National Reciprocity.

of course it was. same old shit that they always do. which is why they get nothing more than my membership fees. i've said it repeatedly.....when i see actual action from them in this state i will happily donate more.

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12 hours ago, Bklynracer said:

Question, you guys know then me, I hope..but how did other places get lawsuits to the higher courts and we can't. D.C. comes to mind

that's a question better asked of our state NRA org ANJRPC. their history of taking NJ to task thru the legal system over the yrs is.......lacking. The coming storm is in their wheelhouse now, put up or stfu. anything short of well organized lawsuits will be a fail, they -as well as us- knew what was coming.

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43 minutes ago, siderman said:

that's a question better asked of our state NRA org ANJRPC. their history of taking NJ to task thru the legal system over the yrs is.......lacking. The coming storm is in their wheelhouse now, put up or stfu. anything short of well organized lawsuits will be a fail, they -as well as us- knew what was coming.

exactly.

Just check their website for "current" information.

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On 1/11/2018 at 5:54 PM, Mrs. Peel said:

anti-2A prosecutors. Enough is enough!

* This *

 

Not even the LEO who is just doing his/her job - I cold make a case that discretion could be used - but with body cams etc - eh not so much.  *BUT* these prosecutorial douch nozzles need to be reigned in.

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1 hour ago, siderman said:

that's a question better asked of our state NRA org ANJRPC. their history of taking NJ to task thru the legal system over the yrs is.......lacking. The coming storm is in their wheelhouse now, put up or stfu. anything short of well organized lawsuits will be a fail, they -as well as us- knew what was coming.

:)  Well said - it is the time for the NRA/ANJRPC to finally step to the plate and engage -

 

I find it odd that the most pro 2A lawyer - the 'man' for NJ doesn't even live here - why? ........cause he knows it is a lost cause......that's why 5 Franklin St #2, Concord, NH 03301 is the address - why was the lawsuit that BACH pushed so hard for in NH so important?  Waste of funds....

 

They have had months if not years to plan for the coming battles.......marches arent't going to do squat - I was in Trenton in the cold and snow and all the lawmakers did was come to the windows point look and laugh in our faces.

 

Legal challenges are the only path - and if and when that fails - move.  And let them have the state........

 

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34 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

 - why was the lawsuit that BACH pushed so hard for in NH so important?  Waste of funds....

 

 

 

That lawsuit was important as it opened the door for New Jersey residents to CCW in PA.

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19 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

That lawsuit was important as it opened the door for New Jersey residents to CCW in PA.

And that matters- why? - so some folks can play CCW in PA

 

I get it - but in the big grand strategic way of thinking it was a waste of resources and money

 

 

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Not for nothin, but when observed from 50,000 feet. This state, it's voting majority, and most of all it's ingrained culture are self destructive. What does it take, for a state that is consistently on the list of the highest taxes, greatest number of folks leaving, most corrupt, worst business climate, highest cost of living(You get the point. We're always on the shit end of the stick) to change? Knowing that the state is headed for default, our neighbors elected the one person in the race that would guarantee higher taxes, higher cost of living an accelerated exodus of tax payers, and significantly worse living conditions. This is not simply stupidity, it's cultural decay to the point of self inflicted harm. In order to make any headway in the 2A struggle, we would have to first overcome that cultural rot. Lawsuits are only effective as far as the results can be enforced. The state has made a habit of ignoring the constitution so far, I doubt a court decision, or new federal law would make a difference. Unless and until the entrench culture can be changed, nothing else will change here. It's not just the egregious violations of the 2nd. Look at the promises made by Murphy. Sanctuary status, tax increases, no cap on salary increases, free tuition. This is recipe for disaster. The cost of everything is going up in a state where it's already unreasonably high. IMHO, the intentional violations of the 2nd are merely another symptom of a diseased and irreparably corrupt mindset. There has never been a sense that change is needed, the acceptance of outright corruption has become automatic, and shows no signs of changing. My fear is the the only thing that will bring about change will be a complete collapse. Even the judiciary couldn't care less about the constitution when it comes to the 2A. Unless you can manage to win thousands and thousands of law suits, that would cost the tax payers of the state hundreds of millions of dollars and potentially bankrupt the state, nothing is going to change. There is not cost to the tax payers that is too great for our leftist government to bear when it comes to forcing their demented ideology on us. Sorry to be a downer, but the writing is on the wall, the people have spoken and have demanded a huge lurch to the left.

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

:)  Well said - it is the time for the NRA/ANJRPC to finally step to the plate and engage -

 

I find it odd that the most pro 2A lawyer - the 'man' for NJ doesn't even live here - why? ........cause he knows it is a lost cause......that's why 5 Franklin St #2, Concord, NH 03301 is the address - why was the lawsuit that BACH pushed so hard for in NH so important?  Waste of funds....

I believe Bach has a residence in NH so he had a vested interest.

 

They have had months if not years to plan for the coming battles.......marches arent't going to do squat - I was in Trenton in the cold and snow and all the lawmakers did was come to the windows point look and laugh in our faces.

 

Legal challenges are the only path - and if and when that fails - move.  And let them have the state........

 

 

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