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RTSP Robbery?

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2 minutes ago, RTSP1 said:

As far as our pricing! Well I have said it before on this forum and it is no big secret.  I get a firearm from a distributor at X price, we mark it up 20%.  Members get 5% off of that price and employees get 10%.  So using that model lets play math teacher.  We buy a gun for $200.00, mark it up 20%, thats is $240.00. Member price is $228.00, Employees price is $$216.00. So on my outlay of $200.00 best case we get $40.00 worst case we get $16.00.  Ammunition= Yes high for nonmembers, but average for members. making $7.00 on a box of nine or making $17.00 on non-members.  Range time is average across the board.

Again, you are entitled to charge whatever you like and whatever the market will allow for.  I just know that your competitors charge less.  Maybe they don't make as much profit, maybe they get better deals from their suppliers.  Either way, it's not my problem.  I support the business with the best price.  

You charge what you want, I'll spend what I deem acceptable.  I'm just one guy who thinks your prices are a rip off.  What do you care?  Clearly lot's of people are okay with it.  Drive on! 

 

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Just now, Alex V said:

I get it, but it is not your home.  If someone burglarized your home and stole your wife's engagement ring or your child's favorite stuffed animal, I get it. Those are things that insurance money will never replace.  I also get the anger you feel having someone violate your place of business.  Having said that, to proclaim it as a tragedy is a bit over the top.  They are, in fact, inanimate objects.  Guns on display in your store, not family heirlooms in your bedroom.  You will itemize your looses and insurance will pay out.  It's nothing that can't be replaced.  It's not a tragedy.  

Again, you did build an awesome range, no doubt, I just feel your rip people off with your prices.  Judging by people liking my original response, I am not the only one who feels that way. I wanted to buy the Hudson H9 you have, but $1,250?  Yeah no. $1100 for an M9A3 that can be had online for $878 and free shipping... no again.  

Agree to disagree.  However your M9A3 is not NJ compliant. It cost money to make those guns compliant. Cost of that firearm to me is $815.00.  I pay someone to make them compliant which is on average about $15.00 per magazine x 3. Here we go again, it is not $1100.00 in our store, it is $1030.00.  So, $815.00 x 20%= $978.00.  Add the compliance work $15.00 x 3 = $45.00. Add those numbers up = $1023.00.  Again not a rip off! If you chose to not claim the taxes on gun purchased out of State then that is your business, even though your are required.  I can't compete with that, and thankfully we have loyal customers that understand that and chose to keep businesses like ours going.

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13 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

 

 

Pete if it makes you feel better I sjw’d up and defended you guys when the daily record slandered you, one of my best trolls ever (I blacked out my name)

 

1f6fd6697b00e4b3a41c0e0b904bdb8c.jpg

 

I’m coming by this afternoon to zero in my new scope, love to chat if you have time!

 

My only complaint I have is something that happened years ago and if you want to discuss it, let’s take it to PM

I am here all day, please stop by.  first office in the training center.

 

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How did this thread that was about the fact that bad guys broke into a store and stole stuff turn into an attack and defense of their business model?  Now why the attack on the definition of a tragedy?  Sure it is a tragedy when someone gets killed or non-replaceable objects are taken.  But anyone that has built a business will feel it a tragedy and a personal attack when what they build is attacked or destroyed even if it can be replaced with money.  If you have never built a business perhaps you can't feel that, but I understand where Pete is coming from.

As for pricing, well every business builds their own business model.  Some are low priced others are high priced.  They each target a different demographic and have different means of achieving their goals.  If you operate in a high cost area and offer huge inventory and lots of service and support you are typically going to have higher prices.  Any business typically offers three things- price, service and quality - as a customer you typically get to pick any two of those that you want and the business sets the other.  That is why there are many different businesses around.  

My suggestion for those that don't need service and support buy online since they just want the cheapest price.  If you want to be able to hold the product and compare it to lots of others and be able to ask many people behind the counter about the product then you will likely pay more at a full service business.

 

So, have the bad guys been caught, any lead on them?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, RTSP1 said:

Agree to disagree.  However your M9A3 is not NJ compliant. It cost money to make those guns compliant. Cost of that firearm to me is $815.00.  I pay someone to make them compliant which is on average about $15.00 per magazine x 3. Here we go again, it is not $1100.00 in our store, it is $1030.00.  So, $815.00 x 20%= $978.00.  Add the compliance work $15.00 x 3 = $45.00. Add those numbers up = $1023.00.  Again not a rip off! If you chose to not claim the taxes on gun purchased out of State then that is your business, even though your are required.  I can't compete with that, and thankfully we have loyal customers that understand that and chose to keep businesses like ours going.

As I am just one guy who thinks you're a rip off.  Drive on.

I would still love to hear the explanation behind the $125 45 minute draw from a holster lesson requirement...  I guess safety right?  

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13 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

Please define safe haven.......if the want in, they'll find a way, being a LEO, you know that.

That phrase is more than beat-up by the media and in know way do I mean it in any trivial context. That said, it is a home away from home.  If this business is to fail, my legacy and my partners legacy and all of our lives savings go right in the crapper.  It is more than just about insurance or guns. If you have a unique business that is always under the microscope, well things like this hurt and can make sleeping at night not so fun.  It is personal!

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My grandmother used to say... "People know the price of everything and the value of nothing".

For whatever reason RTSP sets their pricing policy, it's just that, their policy.  If you don't like it, shop somewhere else.  I've never been to RTSP but I've heard mostly good things about them.  Would I buy a firearm from them? Probably not, because I am a bargain hunter.  Not everyone shops like me and I don't expect every retailer to accommodate my buying habits.

As a general rule, I spend about 1/3rd of my shooting sports budget locally.  I do this to support our state's LGSs.  I have seen dozens go out of business over the years because of the cost of doing bidniz in NJ.  Am I paying more than I would at Bud's or PSA, well, sure.  But I'm getting something I can't from Bud's, live in person service, advice, expertise, the ability to touch it before I decide to buy and the ability to take it home today.  It's called value added retail.  That's what you are paying for at a LGS. 

I've also found that if you do business enough with someone, you become a regular customer.  As such, I can usually negotiate good deals. Relationships matter and you don't get that from an on-line retailer.

If RTSP's prices are so outrageous, they will go out of business because people will shop somewhere else.  From what I see though, they are not going out of business any time soon.  They must be doing something right.

Concerning the break in. I can only guess that someone who is blase about it has never been burglarized or robbed.  Whether it's your home or business, it's still personal.  It's not like a multinational conglomerate retailer was broken into, it was a locally owned and operated LGS built with hand and heart by the proprietors. There is no greater sense of being violated than having something stolen from you.

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2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Concerning the break in. I can only guess that someone who is blase about it has never been burglarized or robbed.  Whether it's your home or business, it's still personal.  It's not like a multinational conglomerate retailer was broken into, it was a locally owned and operated LGS built with hand and heart by the proprietors. There is no greater sense of being violated than having something stolen from you.

Still not a tragedy.  Upsetting, unsettling, unnerving, not a tragedy.  No one died, everything that was taken can be replaced. No dramatics needed. 

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9 minutes ago, Alex V said:

As I am just one guy who thinks you're a rip off.  Drive on.

I would still love to hear the explanation behind the $125 45 minute draw from a holster lesson requirement...  I guess safety right?  

Stop saying "Rip-off" it is rude!

As far as the $125.00 holster class. It has always been our contention that if you have a certificate from a reputable source for drawing from the holster and that it is approved by an owner or the Director of Training, the fee is waved.  It is an insurance issue not a us issue. 

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4 minutes ago, Alex V said:

Still not a tragedy.  Upsetting, unsettling, unnerving, not a tragedy.  No one died, everything that was taken can be replaced. No dramatics needed. 

You are just prodding at this point. childish real.

I have said enough. If anyone should have anything further to say about this topic of SUBSTANCE, 961 St. Rt 10 E, Randolph, NJ 973-434-7600; Ext 101.

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2 minutes ago, RTSP1 said:

Stop saying "Rip-off" it is rude!

As far as the $125.00 holster class. It has always been our contention that if you have a certificate from a reputable source for drawing from the holster and that it is approved by an owner or the Director of Training, the fee is waved.  It is an insurance issue not a us issue. 

So If I show you a stack of certificates from training classes I can draw from a holster?  Good to know.  No one told me that, they just wanted to charge me $125.  You may want to make your employees aware of the exemption. 

1 minute ago, RTSP1 said:

You are just prodding at this point. childish real.

 

Maybe a little. ;) 

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What really use to get me PO'd was, you could go around the block /  Newark and buy back the expensive equipment / that was stolen from us the night before for 15 or 20 bucks....it sucked.

Also, hard to justify a 125.00 fee for a holster drawing minute.....sorry that's just Nutz..

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What the Fuck is wrong with you guys? This shit is exactly why people and vendors give up on this place! You turn a post about a burglary into trashing the guy’s business? Do yourselves a favor and stay on topic or shut the fuck up. You have issues? Speak to him privately. Don’t bash him in public.

As with anything else, you don’t like his company? Don’t go....

 

Fucking arm chair warriors! Un-fucking real!

And while you are at it, take your expertise in forensics and get yourself out in the real world and show us your ingenuity. What? Have none? Again! STFU!

[emoji35]🤬

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

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4 minutes ago, bhunted said:

What the Fuck is wrong with you guys? This shit is exactly why people and vendors give up on this place!You turn a post about a burglary into trashing the guy’s business? Do yourselves a favor and stay on topic or shut the fuck up. You have issues? Speak to him privately. Don’t bash him in public.
As with anything else, you don’t like his company? Don’t go....

Fucking arm chair warriors! Un-fucking real!
And while you are at it, take your expertise in forensics and get yourself out in the real world and show us your ingenuity. What? Have none? Again! STFU!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1

Especially considering that RSTP has done absolutely nothing so egregious that deserves the public shaming to serve as a warning to other shooters to avoid the place.

 

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My simplistic take on the subject is this:

  1. More ranges and dealers are a good thing.
  2. Free enterprise allows for a wide variety of pricing models in the marketplace.
  3. Free enterprise allows me to decide where and how I spend my money-so I'm not bothered by point #2.
  4. Getting robbed really sucks; It doesn't matter if the losses are largely covered by insurance.  That doesn't make them 'free'.
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17 minutes ago, bhunted said:

What the Fuck is wrong with you guys? This shit is exactly why people and vendors give up on this place! You turn a post about a burglary into trashing the guy’s business? Do yourselves a favor and stay on topic or shut the fuck up. You have issues? Speak to him privately. Don’t bash him in public.

As with anything else, you don’t like his company? Don’t go....

 

Fucking arm chair warriors! Un-fucking real!

And while you are at it, take your expertise in forensics and get yourself out in the real world and show us your ingenuity. What? Have none? Again! STFU!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

+1 for me as well .. new to the forums but this kind of bashing is totally uncalled for and childish. If some places prices are too high for you then take your business elsewhere. But this conversation and the opinions within them went overboard way too fast.  Keep it civil here and save your anger for Murphy and the Anti-2A'ers 

RTSP Keep on trucking. I'll be there bright an early in the morning to get some range time in.

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Maybe a little. [emoji6] 



Pete is devastated by the burglary because it was his & his partners life’s work to make that business come in to fruition. Ask any Range owner how hard it is to open up shop in this state and how long it took them. Hell RTSP has been trying for years to open in Union for a 2nd location.

As for their pricing & this goes for any gun shop that is in a commercial or retail property. Their mark ups cover the cost of rent, employee salary & everything else under the sun. Is RTSP pricey? Yes but like i said before, it’s like going buying a snowboard at the pro shop at Mountain Creek vs. going to Pelican or Ramsey Outdoor. Their gun store is a convenience for being right at the range.

Reason why guys that run their FFL right out of their house can charge so little is because they don’t have half the overhead RTSP or Ottomanelli’s do. Don’t be a dick to RTSP, if you have ways to save money to shoot or buy firearms, they aren’t sweating it.

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35 minutes ago, Alex V said:

So If I show you a stack of certificates from training classes I can draw from a holster?  Good to know.  No one told me that, they just wanted to charge me $125.  You may want to make your employees aware of the exemption. 

Maybe a little. ;) 

OK, last thing..... LOl. Yes you can come see ME with your hero file of certificates and I will square you away.  As far as the $125.00, I just spoke to my Director of Training and that course was developed on 06/16/2014 by a previous employee.  The class was a bit more inclusive, my understanding, and though it was high then, it was also longer.  Anyway, in reviewing it more closely, I am lowering it to $75.00 which in my opinion is more reasonable.  

Also, and for the record, I have always taken the members of this group as kind, well intentioned and responsible gun owners that have passion and pride for the industry.  Likewise, I have taken a lot of guidance and advice to help grow this company and to that point I thank you all. 

My doors are always open and I am not stupid enough to not except change. Change for the betterment of my customers and the betterment of my wallet. lol

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1 minute ago, RTSP1 said:

OK, last thing..... LOl. Yes you can come see ME with your hero file of certificates and I will square you away.  As far as the $125.00, I just spoke to my Director of Training and that course was developed on 06/16/2014 by a previous employee.  The class was a bit more inclusive, my understanding, and though it was high then, it was also longer.  Anyway, in reviewing it more closely, I am lowering it to $75.00 which in my opinion is more reasonable.  

Also, and for the record, I have always taken the members of this group as kind, well intentioned and responsible gun owners that have passion and pride for the industry.  Likewise, I have taken a lot of guidance and advice to help grow this company and to that point I thank you all. 

My doors are always open and I am not stupid enough to not except change. Change for the betterment of my customers and the betterment of my wallet. lol

For someone is so sensitive you don't mind slinking shade right back.  I like it.  Good on you! I'll just bring my favorite certificate lol. 

Good on you for re-evaluating the costs of your training class.  That IS good business and I applaud you for it. 

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59 minutes ago, RTSP1 said:

You are just prodding at this point. childish real.

I have said enough. If anyone should have anything further to say about this topic of SUBSTANCE, 961 St. Rt 10 E, Randolph, NJ 973-434-7600; Ext 101.

Why waste your time with the children here - ??  Run your business how you see fit and the market bears.......... 

Effing gun people - makes me shake my head sometimes.........

Sad to hear bout the losses and that is a hit to any kind of business - stop feeding what would be called trolls elsewhere - but sadly are members here....

 

NOW - if we can convince the NJ State PBA that they should fight against mag limits....instead of embracing them as -  "hey its ok it doesn't apply to us...."  :)

 

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I’ll give an example as to why I’m a fan of RTSP and why they’ll always have my support in some capacity.

In 2015 I bought my first AR from them, the Colt LE6920 M4 w/Magpul furniture. I could have bought it on grabagun.com for $850, I called RTSP ahead of time asking and they said it would cost me $200 for the gun smith to make it NJ Compliant + the cost of a muzzle break to swap out the flash hider. They also told me it would take a few weeks as their gunsmith was backed up with work. So that $850 gun was going to then cost me about $1200 before tax, transfer fee & NICS check.

They had the same rifle in stock already made compliant for $1200, so I bought it from them and be able to shoot it right away. What I know now vs. what I knew then when I was just getting in to owning guns personally I probably could have gotten that rifle for even cheaper from a small FFL, but I didn’t and they do what’s in the best interests for new shooters and owners.

My newest rifle RTSP sold for 2600, Ottomanelli sold it for 2900, and Luciano’s who i recently found out about sold it to me for $2000 so that was a no brainer. But RTSP is still a great range & store with a staff that loves what they do. I’ll keep going there when it’s cold or need to blow off steam when I can’t make the drive to Easton and anyone interested in getting in to guns, it will always be the place I’ll send them to.

Keep on keepin on RTSP [emoji1303]

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1 hour ago, Alex V said:

everything that was taken can be replaced.

Except your sense of security, your reputation for keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys*, your reputation in the community*, and your peace of mind.

trag·e·dy
ˈtrajədē/
noun
  1. 1
    an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe.

I would say tragedy fits the description of this crime to the owners, employees, and members of the business, as well as the local community in general and anyone that may be a victim to one of the stolen guns.

* Note: I am not saying RTSP did anything wrong. What I am saying is that Anti-gunners, anti 2A politicians, and the media will blame RTSP for the guns getting out into the community, instead of the burglars - where the blame rightly belongs. Unfortunately, right or wrong, the only person that has to care about the bad publicity is RTSP.

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24 minutes ago, RTSP1 said:

OK, last thing..... LOl. Yes you can come see ME with your hero file of certificates and I will square you away.  As far as the $125.00, I just spoke to my Director of Training and that course was developed on 06/16/2014 by a previous employee.  The class was a bit more inclusive, my understanding, and though it was high then, it was also longer.  Anyway, in reviewing it more closely, I am lowering it to $75.00 which in my opinion is more reasonable.  

Also, and for the record, I have always taken the members of this group as kind, well intentioned and responsible gun owners that have passion and pride for the industry.  Likewise, I have taken a lot of guidance and advice to help grow this company and to that point I thank you all. 

My doors are always open and I am not stupid enough to not except change. Change for the betterment of my customers and the betterment of my wallet. lol

Few things, good on you for taking the criticism on holster pricing and amending the policy/pricing.  It takes a lot to actually do something other than just putting defenses up. 

I go to your range to shoot and even bought my first firearm from you.  Your RO's are great and even helped me zero a scope that was way off. 

However, the ammo pricing, yeesh.  I only buy online because you're the closest range and charge an arm and a leg for the stuff.

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Why waste your time with the children here - ??  Run your business how you see fit and the market bears.......... 

Effing NJ gun people - makes me shake my head sometimes.........

Sad to hear bout the losses and that is a hit to any kind of business - stop feeding what would be called trolls elsewhere - but sadly are members here....

 

NOW - if we can convince the NJ State PBA that they should fight against mag limits....instead of embracing them as -  "hey its ok it doesn't apply to us...."  :)

 

Fixed it for you.

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