DirtyDigz

NJ2AS claims "a seat at the table" on pending legislation

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Just now, voyager9 said:

* How are coordinating with other 2A orgs and is everyone on the same page and committed to the same strategy?

it would go a loooong way to have a joint statement from the various orgs on these new bills and their publically releasable strategy. 

Yeah, I forgot about that... he's apparently the only "holdout" that was invited but refused to participate in that SAFE conference, etc. - according to the guy that started the conference, Roubian was concerned about the missed opportunity for solo branding for NJ2AS. IF that's true (hey, I didn't hear the conversation directly!), but IF it's true... on the one hand, I chuckle at Roubian's obvious flair for self-promotion, but on the other hand, I slap my head and think, "Seriously, guy? We have a fanatic bearing down on us, and you're worried about your freaking branding?! This is NOT about any one individual or even org - this is an 'all hands on deck' situation". Ugh!

I know that ANJRPC and CNJFO met --- apparently, there's a 2nd meeting planned with additional 2A orgs - that's what SHOULD be happening. At this point, I wonder if they would even invite NJ2AS?  I sort of doubt it as he's burned them several times already.

If the other 2A orgs don't even want to get near him, what makes you think he can effectively partner with legislators? Yeah, I guess the  more I'm writing, the more I have to admit to myself... I have such SERIOUS doubts about this guy... he has a huge credibility hurdle to overcome in my mind!

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Just now, mossburger said:

No offense cause I share your pessimism deep down.

But we've got to do SOMETHING. We at least have to try.

I know some people plan on "not complying" - fine by me you do what you want. Personally, I wouldn't ever want to be a single phone call from a busybody neighbor away from 10+ years in prison. But that's just me and I'm sure you think I'm a coward. 

None taken

If you are afraid of what your neighbors might do then you either need to grow a pair or build higher fences.  

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The SAPPA CASE CAN'T FAIL WE CAN'T LOSE !

 

 

Sound familiar? 

 

SAPPA IMHO was either a hook for a money grab as Peel mentioned, or the work of a crazy serial frivolous claimant.

 

 

Also in reference to @Mrs Peel post I was not able to find any tax filings for NJ2AS. Are they not a charitable organization? I could find them for ANJRPC.

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

More like a front row seat to an ass pounding.

I have no problem with one man, um, taking one for the team. As long as it’s part of a consistent and successful strategy. 

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1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!

 

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Jeebus, we bitch about a group that doesn't do anything or enough and then we bitch about a group that does something but not they way we like.....holy shit, as long as someone is out there doing work on behalf of our 2A interests I'm happy AND thankful. Don't think these groups are immune from politics, it comes in all shapes and sizes, even the state legislators can eat their own. Let them do their own thing, mix it up at least it's an attack from different fronts. All hands on deck!

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9 minutes ago, siderman said:

Jeebus, we bitch about a group that doesn't do anything or enough and then we bitch about a group that does something but not they way we like.....holy shit, as long as someone is out there doing work on behalf of our 2A interests I'm happy AND thankful. Don't think these groups are immune from politics, it comes in all shapes and sizes, even the state legislators can eat their own. Let them do their own thing, mix it up at least it's an attack from different fronts. All hands on deck!

Fair enough. And I don’t think anyone has said they wouldn’t support him if his claims are true. At the same time you have to acknowledge that he has a history and credibility concerns that need to be addressed to those from whom he seeks support. 

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2 minutes ago, siderman said:

Jeebus, we bitch about a group that doesn't do anything or enough and then we bitch about a group that does something but not they way we like.....holy shit, as long as someone is out there doing work on behalf of our 2A interests I'm happy AND thankful. Don't think these groups are immune from politics, it comes in all shapes and sizes, even the state legislators can eat their own. Let them do their own thing, mix it up at least it's an attack from different fronts. All hands on deck!

I don't want to come off like a Negative Nellie (because I'm actually not). I'll just end with this:

If NJ2AS pulled their prior written attacks against other 2A groups off of their website/social media pages, and promised to not repeat that idiocy again, I would NEVER say a negative single thing about them (whether I liked their methods or not). Hell, I might even donate to them!

But as long as they leave those items up there "live"... I can only assume that they think "eating your own" is a good strategy.. and to me, that's the OPPOSITE of "all hands on deck". It's in-fighting. That's how I see it! 

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2 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

Wonder if sweeney is in these meetings


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You better hope so, he's your only hope left (pun).

2 hours ago, louu said:

How about sending some of your change NJ2AS's way, $35 or more if you didn't already. 

If a lot of people join now it sends a strong message...................

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And I have been in this game in NJ long enough to let you all know that all the "in your face public displays" was good theater, but when it was all said and done it was the behind closed door negotiating that counted.  Still need the public display to prove it's not a hollow effort, but this is how Trenton works,

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1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

None taken

If you are afraid of what your neighbors might do then you either need to grow a pair or build higher fences.  

Most towns only allow 6 ft!

Seriously though, I see a lot of people on here boasting about non compliance and such. Which is fine, provided all claiming they wish to do so really understand the risks.

All it takes is the wrong traffic stop, a busybody neighbor to call the cops when you and your wife are arguing, a house fire, etc. A member here told me of a friend that ended up in court after the maintenance man saw a black rifle on the bed from outside. 

And when that day comes the person will get locked up and sentenced to a decade in prison. No, tens of thousands of NJ gun owners are not going to come out and have an "I'm Spartacus!" moment to save you. They're going to keep their mouth shut while you rot in a hole. 

And maybe after a couple years, if you're incredibly lucky, some people on the internet may argue a bunch about you online and finally help you appeal and go free or get pardoned. But the odds on that are 1,000 to 1 so you'll probably just spend a decade getting raped, beaten, having your dinner stolen and calling another man "daddy" as you develop a bad meth habit.

Just something to consider before calling other people cowards or telling them they need to grow a pair. We're talking some serious high stakes here, not just simple fines or some Adam Sandler Big Daddy court room scene where you win. This ain't the movies.

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Most towns only allow 6 ft!
Seriously though, I see a lot of people on here boasting about non compliance and such. Which is fine, provided all claiming they wish to do so really understand the risks.
All it takes is the wrong traffic stop, a busybody neighbor to call the cops when you and your wife are arguing, a house fire, etc. A member here told me of a friend that ended up in court after the maintenance man saw a black rifle on the bed from outside. 
And when that day comes the person will get locked up and sentenced to a decade in prison. No, tens of thousands of NJ gun owners are not going to come out and have an "I'm Spartacus!" moment to save you. They're going to keep their mouth shut while you rot in a hole. 
And maybe after a couple years, if you're incredibly lucky, some people on the internet may argue a bunch about you online and finally help you appeal and go free or get pardoned. But the odds on that are 1,000 to 1 so you'll probably just spend a decade getting raped, beaten, having your dinner stolen and calling another man "daddy" as you develop a bad meth habit.
Just something to consider before calling other people cowards or telling them they need to grow a pair. We're talking some serious high stakes here, not just simple fines or some Adam Sandler Big Daddy court room scene where you win. This ain't the movies.


You watch too many movies. Do you really think someone who is low risk without a criminal record will end up in Rahway or Trenton. If they ever even see the inside of a prison cell it will be in a low risk facility. If everyone stuck together on the issue they wouldn’t be able to enforce any of their laws, but it is quite clear there is no solidarity.


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Fact is Dems have been waiting for this for 8 years or more, it doesn’t matter what nj2as or any other group does, the only thing that may slow them down is legal action or previously judged items like 7 round magazines. That may stop the 5 round magazine thing in favor of 10 which has not been successfully fought in MA so they have no fear of passing it here where 5 is a gamble. 

I have no confidence at all in nj2as or any other group to do anything to stop or even slow this legislatively. If they show tangible results in the coming months, my opinion may change but for now, I doubt this is anything other then an ad to solicit money. 

Also, for all the people banging the NRA, (all the “I’ve been a member for 200 years and they haven’t done squat for NJ!” stuff :) ) You know just being a member does nothing for gun rights political and legal fights right? By law, dues cannot be used for political lobbying since that is not the NRAs mission statement or allowed because of their tax status, that’s why they created the NRA-ILA. It has separate funding for political action and legal defense. If you are concerned about legal and political issues, that is the place to put money not the NRA general donations, that money can only go to education, safety programs and sporting... (and apparently a ton of mailing and ads :huh: ) but that is national level stuff though they do back things when they get to federal court from states. For real state specific issues, you need to support the ANJRPC. 

That said, I doubt they can do anything legislatively at this time either, the NJ legislature has been chomping at the bit for years, they aren’t going to waste this opportunity to push anything and everything they can with a yes man in the Gov seat.

-Jim

 

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10 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Fair enough. And I don’t think anyone has said they wouldn’t support him if his claims are true. At the same time you have to acknowledge that he has a history and credibility concerns that need to be addressed to those from whom he seeks support. 

not much different than the claims from the leader of our state NRA  group. Lots of talk about meetings behind closed doors and secret lobbying, friends in high places, claiming a big 2A victory for out of state rights, chairing a legislative committee with a anti ccw board officer, non-existant history of lawsuits against the state...and despite what I just listed its not a slam on Mr Bach but a comparison of leadership. Plenty of "fault" to be found with any leader. I'm not so sure I like the idea of a united front anyway, too one dimensional and makes the states countering easy. And not that any of our 2A groups have the state shaking in their boots but just maybe a mixed up assault makes it that much harder for them to defend.

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 


You watch too many movies. Do you really think someone who is low risk without a criminal record will end up in Rahway or Trenton. If they ever even see the inside of a prison cell it will be in a low risk facility. If everyone stuck together on the issue they wouldn’t be able to enforce any of their laws, but it is quite clear there is no solidarity.


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This may be fanciful thoughts - but what if they just turned tail and ran?

 

Signers%20of%20Declaration.jpg

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32 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

This may be fanciful thoughts - but what if they just turned tail and ran?

 

Signers%20of%20Declaration.jpg

You'd be labeled a domestic terrorist. The public masters have learned to chip away a little at a time, and it is always in the name of "safety" to avoid revealing their true tyrannical nature. 

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you know if any law is sold to the public as "for the children" or "to keep the public safe" you can be damn sure its going to cost you money and restrict your rights as a citizen. strict gun laws coincidentally increase violent crime, insane school funding somehow produces low test scores, drug use and smuggling has skyrocketed with the war on drugs,  "affordable care" increased heath care costs, its maddening. 1515627284178.png.06634f7d1f0ec0a663fda822d138d70c.png

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On 1/18/2018 at 8:07 AM, JimB1 said:

Fact is Dems have been waiting for this for 8 years or more, it doesn’t matter what nj2as or any other group does, the only thing that may slow them down is legal action or previously judged items like 7 round magazines. That may stop the 5 round magazine thing in favor of 10 which has not been successfully fought in MA so they have no fear of passing it here where 5 is a gamble. 

I have no confidence at all in nj2as or any other group to do anything to stop or even slow this legislatively. If they show tangible results in the coming months, my opinion may change but for now, I doubt this is anything other then an ad to solicit money. 

Also, for all the people banging the NRA, (all the “I’ve been a member for 200 years and they haven’t done squat for NJ!” stuff :) ) You know just being a member does nothing for gun rights political and legal fights right? By law, dues cannot be used for political lobbying since that is not the NRAs mission statement or allowed because of their tax status, that’s why they created the NRA-ILA. It has separate funding for political action and legal defense. If you are concerned about legal and political issues, that is the place to put money not the NRA general donations, that money can only go to education, safety programs and sporting... (and apparently a ton of mailing and ads :huh: ) but that is national level stuff though they do back things when they get to federal court from states. For real state specific issues, you need to support the ANJRPC. 

That said, I doubt they can do anything legislatively at this time either, the NJ legislature has been chomping at the bit for years, they aren’t going to waste this opportunity to push anything and everything they can with a yes man in the Gov seat.

-Jim

 

I agree.  NJ will soon take the crown as the state with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. 

Here is my take at what we’ll see

10 round mag limit

complete “assault weapons” ban with no grandfathering or exceptions

internet ammo sales ban

More disqualifications under 2C:58-3

Smart gun mandate 

Probably much, just can’t think of anymore right now 

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