Concerned with how I answered a question on my FID application

[oldguysrule649 397]

Glad to hear this is working out for you and that your interaction with the police department was positive. I assume he is sending it to the chief for his final review, approval, and signature.  Hopefully the next call you receive will be to come and pick up your FID/permits.

Congrats

[Regular Guy 264]

I used to be a Deputy Sheriff in another state.  I was also attached to a task force with the US Marshals Office. I can tell you first hand that every City Police Department, County Sheriff's Office, State Police Agency, and all the Federal Agencies (ATF, USM, FBI, DOJ, ICE, Railroad Police - yeah, that's it's own agency, DHS, Border Patrol, DEA) ALL have their own local records systems.  

The FBI also maintains a national database called NCIC:  National Crime Information Center.  

Now, all of these law enforcement agencies in the country and their associated prosecutors offices and court clerks have to update their local database with warrant information, arrest records and charges, fingerprint records, name/address/phone #/SSN info, associated vehicle info, charges that have been dropped, downgraded, upgraded or dismissed, plea agreements, sentencing information, it ALL has to be updated.  There is an unholy crap-ton of data that has to be entered DAILY and there is usually no checks/balances to go back and verify it is correct once its put in.

Next,  state and local agencies that have received the proper training from the FBI and have the proper computer access to NCIC can upload their data to the NCIC database.  This data can then able to be shared with other agencies with access to NCIC, but it is not a mandatory requirement that all state and local law enforcement agencies have access or upload their data if they do have access.  The ones who do, have to upload it in a specific format, but this is typically a different format from the local system.  This conversion of data formats which creates room for error.  The uploading agency is supposed to verify the info is correct, but again, room for human error.

Now, when an agency searches a person's name, the system is designed to bring up all names that are phonetically similar (the computer is actually programmed to know what words sound like) and all the various spellings of the name.  A human then has to sift through the returned info and decide if any of it matches the person they are physically dealing with.  Room for Error.

I have seen first hand, on MANY occasions, the information in these databases are not current, not accurate, or not complete enough to make an accurate determination to whether it belongs to the person we were dealing with.  I once arrested a man for being in possession of a stolen firearm (had a valid CCW).  This was a Friday evening.  He swore up and down he bought it from a sporting goods store where he worked in another state.  Long story short, I  could have let him sit in jail all weekend, but I went out of my way and called the ATF in Washington DC and actually got in touch with a live person on a Friday evening, (damn near impossible, trust me) from whom I found out the gun was 1 of 93 guns stolen from that store. All guns were recovered and returned, but some federal law prevented them from being sold to the public so they could only be sold to employees or disposed of in some other process.  So this guy I arrested bought the gun in question LEGALLY and the ATF had the records of that legal purchase, but FORGOT to update NCIC.  So here he is on vacation, 1,000 miles away from home in jail for no reason, and had I not done more than I needed to at the time, he would have sat in jail all weekend, gone to court Monday, been turned over to our local ATF office, and maybe Monday afternoon or Tuesday they would have figured it out and let him go.    

There is too much info out there, with too much room for human error on the input side and on the retrieval side of the system.  I guess the message I'd like to get across is this:  It is very possible to have something pop up on a background check that was missed 20 times before.  It is also very possible to have someone else's info pop up when your name is searched.  This happens to my brother frequently because someone with the same first and last name and same middle initial (different middle name, but still starts with the letter D ) has a federal warrant for his arrest for armed robbery of a post office.

Unfortunately, often times the individual has to suffer or go through as much work to prove his case as the government has to go through to prove theirs.  The one truly amazing part about the whole records system with NCIC and a million independent state and local systems is that these mistakes do not occur more often than they do. 

So just my $.02 on these background checks and records checks.

 

[GunsnFreedom 245]

When I first did my FPID the investigating officer called me up about an arrest under my name in a town I grew up in.  Something with driving/speeding I can't remember.  I was definitely in that town when it happened.  He told me about it and asked me a few questions.  I told him it wasn't me (it wasn't) and he figured since I was only 15 or 16 when it happened someone gave the arresting officer my name instead of their own.  That was it.  A few days later I picked up my ID.  I was surprised that they dropped it that easily.

[rtquig 45]

4 months ago I received my DOD ID card to get on base. I had to have my index fingers scanned in. In an instant my information was on the screen. I thought it was pretty amazing they had access and I got my clearance within 10 minutes.

[capt14k 2,052]

The local police should not be calling about anything unless it has the word conviction next to it and it hasn't been expunged. More NJ BS.

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[TheMan 45]

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6 hours ago, Frankie Raffaele said:

Hey guys, here's an update.

I went to my local police department this morning and asked to speak to the detective. He immediately asked me if I received his call this morning, which I didn't for some strange reason, but he said that he was calling because he wanted to ask me a few questions about my application.

I told him that I came in to bring something to his attention on my application, and when I read the question that I was concerned about, he said that was one of the reasons he tried to call me this morning. He said that legally I answered the question correctly - i was NOT adjudged a juvenile delinquent, but the case did come up and he wanted me to explain what happened. I told him the story and he accepted it. The second issue was regarding a psychiatrist that I was seeing for some years - the detective called that doctor to ask about the reasons I was seeing him, and when meeting with me today he wanted to make sure my story matched up, which it did. I also had to get a note from that Dr at the time of handing in my application saying that I am mentally capable of owning firearms (which I did)

After all was said and done, he mentioned that he was glad I came in to try and clear up this issue before the issue got to me, and he thought it was a good thing to do, so it all went well. He said he's going to send my papers over to the chief and get back to me soon.

I'm assuming at this point I should be in the clear? Background checks done and all?

 

Sounds like your good to go.

[Tunaman 549]

13 hours ago, Frankie Raffaele said:

Hey guys, here's an update.

I went to my local police department this morning and asked to speak to the detective. He immediately asked me if I received his call this morning, which I didn't for some strange reason, but he said that he was calling because he wanted to ask me a few questions about my application.

I told him that I came in to bring something to his attention on my application, and when I read the question that I was concerned about, he said that was one of the reasons he tried to call me this morning. He said that legally I answered the question correctly - i was NOT adjudged a juvenile delinquent, but the case did come up and he wanted me to explain what happened. I told him the story and he accepted it. The second issue was regarding a psychiatrist that I was seeing for some years - the detective called that doctor to ask about the reasons I was seeing him, and when meeting with me today he wanted to make sure my story matched up, which it did. I also had to get a note from that Dr at the time of handing in my application saying that I am mentally capable of owning firearms (which I did)

After all was said and done, he mentioned that he was glad I came in to try and clear up this issue before the issue got to me, and he thought it was a good thing to do, so it all went well. He said he's going to send my papers over to the chief and get back to me soon.

I'm assuming at this point I should be in the clear? Background checks done and all?

 

Bravo.  You did the right thing.  Now the Detective knows you and all should be good.  I told you it would be the right thing to do.  Glad you took my advice.  Worked for me too.

[PK90 3,570]

So your doctor spilled his guts to the police about you. Hmmm.

[jackandjill 683]

1 hour ago, PK90 said:

So your doctor spilled his guts to the police about you. Hmmm.

Do we know if someone actually called Doc and Doc gave a story ? 

[Frankie Raffaele 15]

1 hour ago, PK90 said:

So your doctor spilled his guts to the police about you. Hmmm.

i used to see him once every 4-5 months to get prescribed ADHD medication for school, so not really much guts to spill.

either way, what's the relevance? I might not understand the point you're making. Isn't that what he's supposed to do?

[capt14k 2,052]

i used to see him once every 4-5 months to get prescribed ADHD medication for school, so not really much guts to spill.
either way, what's the relevance? I might not understand the point you're making. Isn't that what he's supposed to do?

Actually no. The police shouldn't be calling your doctor unless there is probable cause and they are opening an investigation and you are given due process of the law. You shouldn't have to tell the police in the first place about the doctor because of right against self incrimination. This is how it is supposed to work in America since your right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

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[Frankie Raffaele 15]

29 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Actually no. The police shouldn't be calling your doctor unless there is probable cause and they are opening an investigation and you are given due process of the law. You shouldn't have to tell the police in the first place about the doctor because of right against self incrimination. This is how it is supposed to work in America since your right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

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The application asks if you've ever seen a psychiatrist, so there was no way for me to avoid telling them about the doctor in the first place.

The detective called my doctor in November when I first handed in my application. He only brought it up to me again yesterday to ask if I was aware that he ever called my doctor. I'm sure any issues that would have came along with speaking to my doctor would have been addressed when he saw me yesterday, so hopefully I have nothing to worry about.

 

[capt14k 2,052]

The application asks if you've ever seen a psychiatrist, so there was no way for me to avoid telling them about the doctor in the first place.
The detective called my doctor in November when I first handed in my application. He only brought it up to me again yesterday to ask if I was aware that he ever called my doctor. I'm sure any issues that would have came along with speaking to my doctor would have been addressed when he saw me yesterday, so hopefully I have nothing to worry about.
 

I know you had to in NJ. My point was you shouldn't have to

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[Frankie Raffaele 15]

6 minutes ago, capt14k said:

I know you had to in NJ. My point was you shouldn't have to

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Ah, gotcha. I agree!

By the way I see you're from Manalapan - I'm one town over in Colts Neck, and a few of my buddies from Manalapan recently got their FID as well. Cheers!

 

edit - So thanks again for the help everyone, hopefully it will be within the next few days that I can update this post with the final verdict.

[rtquig 45]

S.P. 033

(26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition?  If yes, give the name and location of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence.

 

I think this question would hinder some people who need help to stay away from getting it if they wanted a firearm.

S.P. 066

PART THREE (To be completed by authorized official or doctor only if applicant has record of admission,                       commitment, or treatment at a hospital, mental institution or sanitarium for a mental disorder)

So if you feel depressed or have anxiety, and see a doctor and agree to go to group therapy, you can be screwed. I think the local PD in this instance have too much leeway. 
 

[capt14k 2,052]

Ah, gotcha. I agree!

By the way I see you're from Manalapan - I'm one town over in Colts Neck, and a few of my buddies from Manalapan recently got their FID as well. Cheers!

 

edit - So thanks again for the help everyone, hopefully it will be within the next few days that I can update this post with the final verdict.

 

I lived in Colts Neck for awhile off Heyers Mill. If Colts Neck is like it used to be you will have no problem. It was one of the few towns that the police realized they worked for the residents.

 

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[jackandjill 683]

On 2/3/2018 at 1:55 PM, Frankie Raffaele said:

The application asks if you've ever seen a psychiatrist, so there was no way for me to avoid telling them about the doctor in the first place.

The detective called my doctor in November when I first handed in my application. He only brought it up to me again yesterday to ask if I was aware that he ever called my doctor. I'm sure any issues that would have came along with speaking to my doctor would have been addressed when he saw me yesterday, so hopefully I have nothing to worry about.

 

Just curious. Did Doc tell you that the Detective called him about you or Detective tell you he called Doc ?

[Frankie Raffaele 15]

Hey guys, here's an update.

Today I received my FID card as well as 3 handgun permits! I am also (soon to be) the proud owner of a Jericho 941, which will be my first firearm I own. I just had my local shop order one in for me and they said it'll take one or two days.

I plan on picking up a Walther P22 next month and also either a Tavor or a Stag 15 Retro.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[capt14k 2,052]

Congrats. At least they are a little faster than Manalapan. I am going to apply for 3 more permits. I am hoping they will be ready in 30 days but the norm is 6 months. Already B.S. I can only drop off application Tuesday between 10am-2pm.

 

 

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