Next precision rifle

[Rob0115 1,105]

Ok, I was going to completely copy @Bully, imitation is the truest form of flattery, and build a .223 precision rig I may have changed my mind and will take the same bits and build a .224 Valkyrie.  The brass doesn’t seem expensive and the accuracy out to 1k is impressive with 90 grain ammo.  The given is the m40a1/htg stock, Bartlein blank (final length tbd), Timney Calvin elite trigger, rem 700 trued action, PTG bottom metal, badger knob, seekins 20 Moa rail. 

Im just noodling over the chambering between .223 and .224 Valkyrie   

 

[Bully 749]

If you don't have a 223, I'd say go that direction.

Or...  have the lug pinned and do up a switch barrel.  Then you'll have best of both worlds at the cost of an additional tube.  Grab the 223 in an 8 or 9 and the 224V in a 6.5 or 7 to run the 90 or new 95gn Sierra.

Take a look at the McMillan A1-3.  I'm running a McMillan A3-5 simply because I have it.  But that A1-3 is just about perfect in my mind.

[Rob0115 1,105]

The barrel is 7.7 twist so it’s gonna be .223   Next one or an ar in Valkyrie.  

[Rob0115 1,105]

Now I have to start sorting out all my good .223 brass from the pile I have.  I should have 1k plus high quality matched pieces.  Hopefully they weigh out within reason.  

[Bully 749]

^^^ Heh...

Sounds like fun.  

[Old School 611]

You guys are killing me.

The Valkyrie has a nice long case neck but is down on case capacity as is the 223.

Only way I would build a precision a 223 is for F/tr where you are restricted to that caliber.

I'm getting just short of 3300fps w/ a 62gr bullet with the 22 Nosler out of a 20" barrel.

I'll get 3300+ when I change powders.

[raz-0 1,259]

47 minutes ago, Old School said:

You guys are killing me.

The Valkyrie has a nice long case neck but is down on case capacity as is the 223.

Only way I would build a precision a 223 is for F/tr where you are restricted to that caliber.

I'm getting just short of 3300fps w/ a 62gr bullet with the 22 Nosler out of a 20" barrel.

I'll get 3300+ when I change powders.

Yes, but what happens with heavier bullets with higher BC and sectional density? Also, 3300 out of a 62 grain? You are beating 5.56 ammo by what? 100-200fps? That's... well... kind of disappointing for all the hardware changes involved. 

Close in neither the nosler nor valkyrie probably offers much over the .223/5.56 cartridge(s). HEad out farther, and it looks like valkyrie  gives you more to work with and is a smarter design. 

 

 

[Bully 749]

I will be running a 22cal rifle for build #3, but not the Valkyrie and not another 223.  

22's are just so much fun.  For paper plinking I don't think it gets funner!

Rob, good luck on your build.  Can't wait to see how it turns out.

[Old School 611]

2 hours ago, raz-0 said:

Yes, but what happens with heavier bullets with higher BC and sectional density? Also, 3300 out of a 62 grain? You are beating 5.56 ammo by what? 100-200fps? That's... well... kind of disappointing for all the hardware changes involved. 

Close in neither the nosler nor valkyrie probably offers much over the .223/5.56 cartridge(s). HEad out farther, and it looks like valkyrie  gives you more to work with and is a smarter design. 

 

 

Never loose sight of the fact that the 5.56 NATO is an intermediated cartridge.  

If I get 3350 out of a 22 Nosler 62gr with a 20" barrel I'll be happy.  If I was to shoot a 90 gr bullet (Yes high BC and SD) I'd have to exceed mag length and single load.  Where as with the Valkyre I could mag feed with a 90gr bullet but give away velocity.

So it's a pick your poison deal.  I shoot my 6mm AR single shot anyway so single loading is not an issue.

I just like velocity and flat shooting.  If I can get close to 22-250 velocities in an AR platform I'm happy.

I'll chrono some 5.56 NATO 62gr out of a 20" barrel and see what it does.  I doubt it will push 3150fps

Yes 250-300fps (agree that's wishful) matters and the only change is a barrel and mag.

And you may not even need a new barrel.  Don't ask...

[Bully 749]

We all realize that Rob is building a bolt gun, correct?

Just checking.

[Old School 611]

6 hours ago, Bully said:

We all realize that Rob is building a bolt gun, correct?

Just checking.

I totally understand that BUT...The three cartridges being discussed here were specifically designed for the AR platform.

I think the real question is what are you going to do with the rifle?

Plink at long range? 223 is fine and fun. Cheap to shoot but not necessarily good at long range.

The other two are a more expensive to shoot (expensive = time and money) and there are better cartridges to chamber in a bolt rifle.

If  I was to build a 223 not a 5.56 I'd build a cute little rifle on the smallest action I could find 24" barrel, good trigger, 1:7 barrel, and limit it to 300-600yds with 69gr SMKs.  You get so, so velocity. SMKs are good bullets with decent numbers.  Load data is out there and well developed. Not exotic and fancy but a good shooter with real capabilities.

You guys (Rob and Chris) know I'm not a Diamond Jim Brady kind of guy.  I just like to put bullets down range and make little holes in whatever I choose to.

 

[Bully 749]

The reason for building a 223 bolt gun (or Valkyrie or Nosler) is the same as the reason for building any gun, it's done simply because someone wants it.  Rob stated that he is going to go 223.  It's an awesome cartridge for shooting medium distances and learning all about wind calls.  It's super cheap to load for and in a pinch, factory ammo is just a storefront away.  Negligible recoil and report make it a breeze to use as a tool to get new shooters interested.  In a word, a 223 bolt action is FUN.  

@Rob0115 what barrel contour are you going to run? 

[Rob0115 1,105]

It’s an M24 profile barrel. @Bully got it right.  Just looking to shoot cheaply at medium distances to learn the sport better.  

[Bully 749]

@Rob0115 Just a FWIW...

I can shoot a pic of an M24 next to an AMU.  The AMU contour is what the Army and Marines use as it's a bit heavier and spotting hits at 200 is easier because of mass.  Might be worth a consideration as this doesn't sound like a hunting rifle.  If you want to see the pic, let me know.

I am running Rock Creeks, but the contours should be close enough to Bartlien to give you a solid idea.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Send pic. 

[myhatinthering 462]

precision with a .223 or .224 is kinda like chasing the wind.  The pills are going to be light, subject to variables that heavier calibers are not as affected by.  Just go a different caliber

[Bully 749]

2 hours ago, myhatinthering said:

precision with a .223 or .224 is kinda like chasing the wind.  The pills are going to be light, subject to variables that heavier calibers are not as affected by.  Just go a different caliber

You’re missing the point. 

The point is to make it more difficult to increase the window for learning. I will tell you from experience that shooting a fast 6 or 6.5 is almost like cheating. Wind calls under 550-600 yards don’t exist. And, given where we live (I know Rob is in Fla and can’t speak to it) learning anything about wind is all but impossible. Building a 223 and shooting at even 300 can be a challenge given how much the bullets get blown around.

Which is exactly the point. 

[myhatinthering 462]

 whatever whatever floats your boat, but trying to build a precision rifle for a two to three it's kind of ridiculous and for the record the quote on chasing the wind is just that it's a reference to the other variables that go into such a small pill

 

 you can you can learn precision shooting in any caliber but the heavier calibers will make you a better person shooter because some of those other variables will matter Less in the variables that you can control such as your pull, thumb over your heartbeat you're breathing come into play. But then again what do I know LOL

 

 

[Shane45 807]

Lets be clear, a projo with a higher BC will allow you to make more of a mistake and still hit your target. But a round that is susceptible to drop and drift indeed can be a better learning tool. The weight of the projectile does not directly guarantee a better drop and drift. Fed GMM Match 175's are not going to outperform a 140 Creedmoor. Your ballistic calc should show you about 100 inches more drop for the 308 @ 1k and 2 feet more drift for 10mph fvw.

 

The BC of the Valkyrie is quite impressive so I don't think its going to get blown around as much as many other cartridges.

[Bully 749]

7 hours ago, Shane45 said:

The BC of the Valkyrie is quite impressive so I don't think its going to get blown around as much as many other cartridges.

Depending on bullet used.

It's not about the cartridge, it's about the bullet.  

[Old School 611]

Wow am I grumpy in the morning.  Serotonin or something... I'm not apologizing, just saying...

Rob and Chris - You guys are building a lamp.  Just get out and shoot.

If you are shooting over 300yds 6mm is considered the minimum caliber.  As far as a "learning tool" ?

Jump in with both feet and shoot a rifle that other successful shooters shoot so you have a yardstick to measure yourself against.

Read what Brian Litz says about reading wind....  You want to try to eliminate the effect of wind not learn to read it perfectly.  Yes consider it but don't give away other factors that will minimize it's effect.  Shoot the highest BC and velocity.  And don't continue that .224 90gr high BC diatribe.  That is good of course but you NEED velocity as well.

If the reason for a precision .223 is training / practice?  I use a 22lr Anschutz at 100yds.  And I'm not the only one that does this

 

Rant off !!!  and more coffee !!!

[Bully 749]

38 minutes ago, Old School said:

If you are shooting over 300yds 6mm is considered the minimum caliber.  As far as a "learning tool" ?

 

 

Rant off !!!  and more coffee !!!

6mm is the minimum caliber...  for what?  For competition?  Maybe so.  But you and I both know that 223 is a viable caliber for shooting 1k.  Not ideal but that doesn't mean it's not viable.  Better calibers for the job?  Yup.  Still not the point.  It's viable and it works.  

I'll drop this guy a line on IG and let him know his .223 isn't a good cartridge for this kind of stuff...

[Old School 611]

30 minutes ago, Bully said:

6mm is the minimum caliber...  for what?  For competition?  Maybe so.  But you and I both know that 223 is a viable caliber for shooting 1k.  Not ideal but that doesn't mean it's not viable.  Better calibers for the job?  Yup.  Still not the point.  It's viable and it works.  

I'll drop this guy a line on IG and let him know his .223 isn't a good cartridge for this kind of stuff...

Yep, Drop him a line and tell him to hustle out to Vegas because he's one lucky SOB.

A potato gun is viable as well but not preferred.

Let's talk consistency.

[Bully 749]

6 minutes ago, Old School said:

Yep, Drop him a line and tell him to hustle out to Vegas because he's one lucky SOB.

A potato gun is viable as well but not preferred.

Let's talk consistency.

Actually, he does it pretty often.  Not cold bore/1 shot, but he hits steel at 1k with a .223 on the regular.

You should look into social media Frank, stop staring thru a little tube with glass on either end of it at tiny targets far away and you can see how other people look thru a little tube with glass on either end of it at tiny targets far away.

I'd go shooting if I had a rifle...

 

[Old School 611]

Ok Mr. Social Media - What is IG?

[Bully 749]

IG = Instagram

@ballistic_therapy is my IG handle.

[Shane45 807]

10 hours ago, Bully said:

Depending on bullet used.

It's not about the cartridge, it's about the bullet.  

I thought most people automatically understood this and Im pretty sure it was easy to infer since Im talking BC. But of course the cartridge matters because if you put that pill behind a different case it wont have the velocity. But Im sure you know that.

 

Many people shoot many things for many reasons. Why I do it may not appeal to someone else. And the reasons they choose may not appeal to me. If your trying to punch paper on a budget or train or learn or just like it, the 5.56 can indeed fill that role. If you like odd new calibers then there are plenty to choose from.

Old School and I usually see eye to eye but I would challenge his interpretation of what Mr. Litz was saying. If you cant read the wind worth a shit, anything short of a laser isn't going to matter for you. Learning to read wind well, which calibers like 308 offer, are indeed good learning tools. Once you upgrade to a more efficient caliber, you will do that much better with it. Run your own ballistic calculator and see what the difference of a small wind call error make at distance. It will give you an appreciation of the skill needed to shoot LR.

Last question Bully, what rifle/caliber do you shoot?

[Zeke 5,504]

On 2/4/2018 at 11:17 AM, Rob0115 said:

Ok, I was going to completely copy @Bully, imitation is the truest form of flattery, and build a .223 precision rig I may have changed my mind and will take the same bits and build a .224 Valkyrie.  The brass doesn’t seem expensive and the accuracy out to 1k is impressive with 90 grain ammo.  The given is the m40a1/htg stock, Bartlein blank (final length tbd), Timney Calvin elite trigger, rem 700 trued action, PTG bottom metal, badger knob, seekins 20 Moa rail. 

Im just noodling over the chambering between .223 and .224 Valkyrie   

 

Pics! Living vicariously through your exploits 

[Rob0115 1,105]

Just now, Zeke said:

Pics! Living vicariously through your exploits 

Pile of parts sent off to tier one defense.   I’ll grt some up when it comes back. 

[Zeke 5,504]

3 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

Pile of parts sent off to tier one defense.   I’ll grt some up when it comes back. 

Dude... that’s cheating. You gotta build it with your man hands! Then send to them to fix it.

I’m now bummed