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Pizza Bob

Hot Dog, Now Things are Heating Up

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Im not totally sold on this yet,  but lets see where this goes.   I believe we have a tighter group.  Well informed group than we had a few years back.  With a few more years under our belt we have more knowledge than we did then. Weve had more time to build up our ranks and our officers have more knowledge and tactics 

Beware phil.  You nit wit. 

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Just now, Golf battery said:

Youre right.  Thanks bro.  I know we can count you in. 

you can. i'll work on getting my stuff filed for the refusal...but i won't be able to take the time off work to go to court for the judges denial though.

 

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well....i'm running behind at the shop. by the time i get caught up, we'll be seeing if this is nothingburger, or fantastic stuff. i'd prefer to see fantastic stuff. i hate complaining....and i know i'm one of the biggest complainers here....i'd love to not be able to complain. :)

 

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Seriously, I don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but I don't know why everyone's so surprised by this! I've seen enough of Bach and Colandro, for instance, to think they're smart, savvy... and obviously well aware of the changing environment in NJ and the country at-large (far more aware than we "NJGF keyboard warriors" are, I'm sure).

Let's face it, there's a LOT of pieces on the chessboard that have shifted dramatically just over the last year or so... the Wrenn vs. DC finding... Trump's appointments to the Federal courts... SCOTUS judges expressing eagerness for a 2A case...and Murphy getting elected (a guy who is already overreaching on his gun control agenda). Obviously, ANJRPC & NRA realize that this is NOT the time to invest too much time on leveraging political influence, but it IS a prime time for legal action... and that's why we saw ANJRPC join as an interested party on that California case, and now there's this latest legal action. The fact that they're talking with other like-minded groups in NJ will only strengthen the effort. This is ALL good! :D

You know, it's OK to feel hopeful, people! It won't kill ya.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Zeke said:

Need to get re fingerprinted , apply  Deny by Chief for my justifiable need” all legal purposes “. Then appeal.

anyone wanna help me with the appeal paperwork? I don’t want to spend that coin on a lawyer. App fee and fingerprint fee I can swallow 

Just but personal safety and defense.  When denied quote the same case law being quoted in this suit in appeal.  Throw in victory over DC's permitting scheme which was similar to tour's.  I think they called their's "urgent need" instead of "justifiable need". It was struck down a few years ago.

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10 hours ago, Golf battery said:

I do see a flaw though.  What is so different about this case as per sappa or any other one.  

I'm no lawyer but I believe the gist of SAPPA's complaint is that that various government entities act in unison as a cabal to deny individuals their rights.

This suit seems to be going after the statues / laws individually as unconstitutional.  Similar to how DC's "Good Reason" permitting scheme was struck down a few years ago.

Per the announcement, "asks the courts to take another look at the issue, based on a recent federal decision striking down the District of Columbia's similar law as flatly unconstitutional."

Hopefully the lawyers heading this suit will be using DC as a blueprint to follow.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/us-judge-strikes-down-dc-concealed-carry-gun-law-as-likely-unconstitutional/2016/05/17/d36d35dc-1c49-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.cdd0617350bd

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I'm guessing the only reason this wasn't done sooner was to not embarrass Christie during his presidential bid.  It would be difficult to convince the country you are pro 2A (as he tried to do) while your home state's citizens are suing the state you lead for violating their 2A rights.

What ever the reason.  I'm glad it's coming.  Hopefully it comes speeding towards them like a fully loaded NJ freight train coming off the tracks.  They will either not fight it too hard as DC choose to do or will fight tooth and nail because they know once DC fell that they can't allow NJ, then NYC, then Maryland and CA to follow.  Because  DC's "Good Reason" justification is no different than NJ's "Justifiable Need" which is no different than any other needs based qualifications that are illegally imposed to deny citizens a right.

We will win this.  Patience and send money!

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9 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Seriously, I don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but I don't know why everyone's so surprised by this! I've seen enough of Bach and Colandro, for instance, to think they're smart, savvy... and obviously well aware of the changing environment in NJ and the country at-large (far more aware than we "NJGF keyboard warriors" are, I'm sure).

Let's face it, there's a LOT of pieces on the chessboard that have shifted dramatically just over the last year or so... the Wrenn vs. DC finding... Trump's appointments to the Federal courts... SCOTUS judges expressing eagerness for a 2A case...and Murphy getting elected (a guy who is already overreaching on his gun control agenda). Obviously, ANJRPC & NRA realize that this is NOT the time to invest too much time on leveraging political influence, but it IS a prime time for legal action... and that's why we saw ANJRPC join as an interested party on that California case, and now there's this latest legal action. The fact that they're talking with other like-minded groups in NJ will only strengthen the effort. This is ALL good! :D

You know, it's OK to feel hopeful, people! It won't kill ya.

 

 

Peel, I'm more hopeful now than I've been in years!  The time to fight is HERE!  I've just written to Bach & Colandro asking how best the Coalition can help in this effort.  We offered to file an Amicus Brief, and do other needed things.  I'll let everyone here know what they tell us.  In the meantime, Mark Cheeseman's case is also on CNJFO's plate & we want to do great things for Mark.  It all costs money.  So now for the shameless plug:  I don't have docket numbers, so is NOW a bad time to bring-up all of the promises made here on this forum by well-meaning members that stated they'd contribute to the cause?  Probably NOT, right?  So here's the link to JOIN:  http://www.cnjfo.com .  Remember we can accept tax-deductible donations too!

TOGETHER we can slay the Dragon!  Thanks for you consideration & nice to have seen some of you last Sunday at the Shotgun Shoot!

Rosey

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4 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

Just but personal safety and defense.  When denied quote the same case law being quoted in this suit in appeal.  Throw in victory over DC's permitting scheme which was similar to tour's.  I think they called their's "urgent need" instead of "justifiable need". It was struck down a few years ago.

@Zeke - why would you do anything yet? If they need more people to file for CCW, and then to file lawsuits, I think they'll tell as that as that will be part of the strategy. The fact that the suit has 2 different individual cases AND references that their org represents "tens of thousands" of other gun owners who would like to apply... tells me they feel they have enough. They fact that they're asking to identify people who've ALREADY been recently denied, maybe nothing more than a useful backup.

I appreciate your zeal, but I'm kind of thinking that you (and others saying similar things) should just "sit tight" for the moment. Don't you think? At the same time, I'm kind of chuckling though... about how everyone's raring to go! Nice to see that the natives are so restless. This has been a loooong time in coming. :D

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

Peel, I'm more hopeful now than I've been in years!  The time to fight is HERE!  I've just written to Bach & Colandro asking how best the Coalition can help in this effort.  We offered to file an Amicus Brief, and do other needed things.  I'll let everyone here know what they tell us.  In the meantime, Mark Cheeseman's case is also on CNJFO's plate & we want to do great things for Mark.  It all costs money.  So now for the shameless plug:  I don't have docket numbers, so is NOW a bad time to bring-up all of the promises made here on this forum by well-meaning members that stated they'd contribute to the cause?  Probably NOT, right?  So here's the link to JOIN:  http://www.cnjfo.com .  Remember we can accept tax-deductible donations too!

TOGETHER we can slay the Dragon!  Thanks for you consideration & nice to have seen some of you last Sunday at the Shotgun Shoot!

Rosey

As soon as I figure out where the donation is best spent. I emailed ANJRPC since they are the ones filing suit and they offered their litigation fund. You (CNJFO) suggest your org of course. I also thought I saw a Go Fund Me link for it somewhere....

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

@Zeke - why would you do anything yet? If they need more people to file for CCW, and then to file lawsuits, I think they'll tell as that as that will be part of the strategy. The fact that the suit has 2 different individual cases AND references that their org represents "tens of thousands" of other gun owners who would like to apply... tells me they feel they have enough. They fact that they're asking to identify people who've ALREADY been recently denied, maybe nothing more than a useful backup.

I appreciate your zeal, but I'm kind of thinking that you (and others saying similar things) should just "sit tight" for the moment. Don't you think? At the same time, I'm kind of chuckling though... about how everyone's raring to go! Nice to see that the natives are so restless. This has been a loooong time in coming. :D

Idk. Maybe you’re right 

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I've been looking at all these 2A orgs for awhile now...nationally and locally... and making an assessment of past & present talk, actions,  and results. I quickly decided any additional donations I make will be towards efforts in this state. That's not just selfish - I subscribe to the "viral" theory that many of us do - that when these unconstitutional laws take hold in ANY state, they tend to spread out and infect others.

This week, I'll be shifting my TWAW (The Well Armed Woman) membership from Lehigh Valley to their Northern NJ chapter (which operates out of RTSP btw), and I'm going to join both ANJRPC and CNJFO. That's for starters - I'll reassess as I go along, likely making additional donations (monetary and/or labor) throughout the year. Frankly, I looked at the membership rates and chuckled... these local orgs are VERY affordable! There's no excuse not to join. It's less than the cost of a nice dinner out.

There's probably at least 800K gun owners in NJ... imagine if we engaged an additional 10% of them to contribute $100 annually (though memberships or donations)! That that would be an increase of MILLIONS of dollars a year helping to fund smart lawsuits, recruit/expand the shooting sports, etc. Now what if we also captured 10% as new volunteers, even giving just one 8-hour day a year to these orgs? (...whether it be manning a booth at an event, doing a direct mailer)... or giving slightly more time as a committee member, etc. - whatever they need frankly! That would represent a SIGNIFICANT volunteer effort that would finally counter what's happening on the anti-2A side. Because I've been looking at those orgs too - the Bloomberg/Giffords groups etc. - and you better believe this - they're organized, funded and motivated! We need to hit back with greater force.

With all the court changes, recent 2A wins, etc., I believe there's a new game in town - and, finally, it favors us. I think everyone should be asking: how can I help?

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2 hours ago, siderman said:

As soon as I figure out where the donation is best spent. I emailed ANJRPC since they are the ones filing suit and they offered their litigation fund. You (CNJFO) suggest your org of course. I also thought I saw a Go Fund Me link for it somewhere....

I'm going to recommend that you please consider giving your donation to Mark Cheeseman's Go Fund Me account, because I feel THAT is where it's needed the most.  If you have $50 left-over at some point, please consider joining the Coalition.

Thanks!

Rosey

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The Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners Board of Trustees will be holding a meeting as soon as our varied schedules allow.  The purpose of that meeting will be to discuss with Mark Cheeseman & Jay Factor HOW MUCH FUNDING THEY NEED & WHEN.  If you're considering making a donation to Mark & John's Go Fund Me, please do so. If you'd rather write a paper check, please do so & send it to Mark Cheeseman c/o CNJFO,  PO Box 768, Sewell, NJ 08080.  We'll be sure to forward it to Mark.  

Thanks!

Dave "Rosey" Rosenthal, CNJFO Vice President 

http://www.cnjfo.com

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On 2/5/2018 at 2:49 PM, JR88USMC said:

 

I have a feeling the FID will never go away, I have no problem with it if in return we can carry, own and furnish our weapons with no restrictions & be able to buy class 3 items. Regardless of what they put in place it's not going to stop bad guys from doing it.

Sorry but I can't agree with you on this one. Would you feel the same way about having to apply for your Rights to Religion & Free Speech? Perhaps a R&F ID card?

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The Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners Board of Trustees will be holding a meeting as soon as our varied schedules allow.  The purpose of that meeting will be to discuss with Mark Cheeseman & Jay Factor HOW MUCH FUNDING THEY NEED & WHEN.  If you're considering making a donation to Mark & John's Go Fund Me, please do so. If you'd rather write a paper check, please do so & send it to Mark Cheeseman c/o CNJFO,  PO Box 768, Sewell, NJ 08080.  We'll be sure to forward it to Mark.  
Thanks!
Dave "Rosey" Rosenthal, CNJFO Vice President 
http://www.cnjfo.com
I know I've mentioned this before but have any of the organizations including CNJFO reached out to the Koch Brothers? A lot easier to get one million dollar donation than 10,000 $100 donations

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Sorry but I can't agree with you on this one. Would you feel the same way about having to apply for your Rights to Religion & Free Speech? Perhaps a R&F ID card?
I agree I'm unwilling to trade to get my rights. I'd rather fight for them.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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i'm gonna ask a question that's gonna sound like i'm being a dick....but i gotta ask. i am not intending this in any way bad mean or offensive.

 i thought there was some convo going on that the 2 lawyers that seem to handle most of the 2a cases here in pfrnj were both pretty much in favor of the status quo? now we're depending on one of them to get us outta the status quo?

 

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i'm gonna ask a question that's gonna sound like i'm being a dick....but i gotta ask. i am not intending this in any way bad mean or offensive.
 i thought there was some convo going on that the 2 lawyers that seem to handle most of the 2a cases here in pfrnj were both pretty much in favor of the status quo? now we're depending on one of them to get us outta the status quo?
 
You do have a point. However they may have been in favor of status quo to kiss fat boy's ass and make him look like he wasn't the Anti that he is.

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1 minute ago, capt14k said:

You do have a point. However they may have been in favor of status quo to kiss fat boy's ass and make him look like he wasn't the Anti that he is.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

you may be right on that....but the status quo went on a ton longer than fatboy(miss him yet?) was governor.

like i said....i'm really not trying to be a dick about it....i just wanna know. if the status quo lawyers keep going that way, then this will all be for naught. on the other hand...cheesman and almeida had different lawyers, and seemed as if they were making headway.

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1 hour ago, Rojasj said:

Sorry but I can't agree with you on this one. Would you feel the same way about having to apply for your Rights to Religion & Free Speech? Perhaps a R&F ID card?

because making us a 100% free state like Delaware or Pennsylvania is a pipe dream that will never happen in our lifetime. To most of the country having an FID is a huge win for the left, which it is because ever since they put that in place in this state, they've pushed further and overly redundant laws down legal gun owners throats for things we didn't do. However if we kept our FID but in exchange were allowed to carry, furnish our weapons the way we wanted AND be able to buy NFA items, that's a compromise for both the right and the left, but a win for the right, don't you think?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, we shouldn't be infringed upon at all, but as a realist what I'm saying is more likely to happen in this state than having gun laws like PA or DE. 

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What’s the difference between a FID and VoterID?

Either way you have to pick your battles. Going after Justifiable Need and also FID could be overreach they dooms your efforts.   The details of arguments and case law against one is completely different than the other and you can only devote so much so you dilute your overall case  

Theyve chipped away over decades. Time to chip back. 

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