Guest Posted February 7, 2018 that's my point, if us FID holders in this state have already vetted ourselves in every way possible just to own a gun, why shouldn't we be allowed to carry or own whatever we want? no criminal in this state is going to go through the FID process to own a neutered gun, they just buy an un-neutered gun on the black market. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,137 Posted February 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Smokin .50 said: I'm going to recommend that you please consider giving your donation to Mark Cheeseman's Go Fund Me account, because I feel THAT is where it's needed the most. If you have $50 left-over at some point, please consider joining the Coalition. Thanks! Rosey done & done. let it ride. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,139 Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said: cheesman and almeida had different lawyers, and seemed as if they were making headway. I liked that guy. He was a real Schiff kicker. As in we have a bunch of pieces of Schiff in NJ and a bunch of bullSchiff laws here that need the Schiff kicked out of them. But seriously, they shouldn't use an insider. Use outside counsel with no connection to NJ. Someone beholden to NOBODY in NJ. Someone who derives no income from the current system and who stands to gain nothing if the case loses. We need a real Shiffkicker! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bklynracer 1,263 Posted February 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Smokin .50 said: I'm going to recommend that you please consider giving your donation to Mark Cheeseman's Go Fund Me account, because I feel THAT is where it's needed the most. If you have $50 left-over at some point, please consider joining the Coalition. Thanks! Rosey Your a good salesman, like where this might go, doing both 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 7, 2018 https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/02/gun_groups_take_on_murphy_over_nj_handgun_rules.amp#ampshare=http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/02/gun_groups_take_on_murphy_over_nj_handgun_rules.html We gonna be famous soon. By the way, does anyone know the gentleman who is actually suing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted February 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/02/gun_groups_take_on_murphy_over_nj_handgun_rules.amp#ampshare=http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/02/gun_groups_take_on_murphy_over_nj_handgun_rules.html We gonna be famous soon. By the way, does anyone know the gentleman who is actually suing? I've met Mark Cheeseman several times. I attended functions were Mark was also there & we spoke often. Sometimes on the phone for an hour or two at a time . I haven't met John Jillard YET (I'm looking forward to it)! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted February 7, 2018 4 hours ago, capt14k said: I know I've mentioned this before but have any of the organizations including CNJFO reached out to the Koch Brothers? A lot easier to get one million dollar donation than 10,000 $100 donations Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk I agree I'm unwilling to trade to get my rights. I'd rather fight for them. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Koch Brothers? Not that I'm aware of. Can you research their contact email for such an endeavor? I'd be in your debt. I'm 2 stories behind & things are moving fast. Seems like not enough time in a day right now, lol! For a shot at a Million Bucks, I'll type an email! Thanks for the idea! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,139 Posted February 7, 2018 53 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/02/gun_groups_take_on_murphy_over_nj_handgun_rules.amp#ampshare=http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/02/gun_groups_take_on_murphy_over_nj_handgun_rules.html We gonna be famous soon. By the way, does anyone know the gentleman who is actually suing? Don't know him but I recall hearing his story (owns ATM restocking business, some in not nice areas) and that he had been turned down for carry permit for not having "justifiable need". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted February 7, 2018 2 hours ago, siderman said: done & done. let it ride. THANKS from all of us & WELCOME to the Coalition! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,139 Posted February 7, 2018 If you haven't read the full complaint you should do so. Very exciting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 7, 2018 Koch Brothers? Not that I'm aware of. Can you research their contact email for such an endeavor? I'd be in your debt. I'm 2 stories behind & things are moving fast. Seems like not enough time in a day right now, lol! For a shot at a Million Bucks, I'll type an email! Thanks for the idea! [emoji4] Here is a list of their foundations https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/10/30/18713/koch-brothers-foundation-network-explained Applying for a Charles Koch Grant https://www.charleskochfoundation.org Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Bklynracer said: Your a good salesman, like where this might go, doing both THANKS, it's really appreciated! WELCOME to the Coalition! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2018 the comment section on nj.com is a riot. but then again the lazy asses who have time to sit on there and comment all day are the ones who voted that goon in to office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darrenf 422 Posted February 7, 2018 the comment section on nj.com is a riot. but then again the lazy asses who have time to sit on there and comment all day are the ones who voted that goon in to office.Hey, I comment on there! Lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 7, 2018 20 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said: @Zeke - why would you do anything yet? If they need more people to file for CCW, and then to file lawsuits, I think they'll tell as that as that will be part of the strategy. The fact that the suit has 2 different individual cases AND references that their org represents "tens of thousands" of other gun owners who would like to apply... tells me they feel they have enough. They fact that they're asking to identify people who've ALREADY been recently denied, maybe nothing more than a useful backup. I appreciate your zeal, but I'm kind of thinking that you (and others saying similar things) should just "sit tight" for the moment. Don't you think? At the same time, I'm kind of chuckling though... about how everyone's raring to go! Nice to see that the natives are so restless. This has been a loooong time in coming. I believe that the actual number of people denied is very low in NJ. This is due to the fact that people just assume that they will be denied (rightfully so). Complaining about the lack of carry permits issued becomes a weak argument without the numbers to back it up. It is very hard to prove that NJ has a de facto ban on carry. The AG just needs to point out the high percentage of permits issued vs denials. The numbers are hard to argue in court, the argument that it would be denied anyway comes off as an emotional argument. Having a lot of denials would add greatly to the argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2018 look at the amount of FID's and handgun permits in the state vs. carry permits. Shouldn't that say enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted February 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said: I believe that the actual number of people denied is very low in NJ. This is due to the fact that people just assume that they will be denied (rightfully so). Complaining about the lack of carry permits issued becomes a weak argument without the numbers to back it up. It is very hard to prove that NJ has a de facto ban on carry. The AG just needs to point out the high percentage of permits issued vs denials. The numbers are hard to argue in court, the argument that it would be denied anyway comes off as an emotional argument. Having a lot of denials would add greatly to the argument. while the actual number may be low.....the percentage of applicants refused is very high. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, JR88USMC said: look at the amount of FID's and handgun permits in the state vs. carry permits. Shouldn't that say enough? It doesn't matter what happens in other states with respect to number of carry permits issued. The numbers reported by the NJ show that a high percentage of applicants are approved. NJ can show in a quantifiable manner (low number of applicants) that not many people are interested in getting a carry permit. All of the complaining online does nothing to change the numbers. People who have not been denied would have no standing in the argument because you can't show any harm has been done to you if you haven't been denied. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, JC_68Westy said: It doesn't matter what happens in other states with respect to number of carry permits issued. The numbers reported by the NJ show that a high percentage of applicants are approved. NJ can show in a quantifiable manner (low number of applicants) that not many people are interested in getting a carry permit. All of the complaining online does nothing to change the numbers. People who have not been denied would have no standing in the argument because you can't show any harm has been done to you if you haven't been denied. I didn't say other states, what I said they can look at how many FID's & handgun permits are issued in this state vs. the amount of carry permits issued in this state. That should say enough. People aren't just getting guns and NOT wanting to carry them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 7, 2018 I still can't understand why there hasn't been a mass application to force a mass denial. This would show that there is a de facto ban on carry in NJ. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, JR88USMC said: I didn't say other states, what I said they can look at how many FID's & handgun permits are issued in this state vs. the amount of carry permits issued in this state. That should say enough. People aren't just getting guns and NOT wanting to carry them. I believe that the state argued in Drake that the percentage of approvals was high. The problem with your argument above is that there are no numbers that indicate that is true. How can you show that people want to carry them if they aren't applying? I am just trying to use logic here. Emotion loses in court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 823 Posted February 7, 2018 Folks here have always been in fear of being denied and then applying in another state just to see the first question on an application....Have you ever been denied a permit in any other state.....and having the stigma of a denial attached to them....the Fear factor.....I dunno. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted February 7, 2018 ^^^^^^^^^ This Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, xXxplosive said: Folks here have always been in fear of being denied and then applying in another state just to see the first question on an application....Have you ever been denied a permit in any other state.....and having the stigma of a denial attached to them......I dunno. I have looked at this before and it is not a common question for states to ask. Even if you were denied and move to a shall issue state a denial in NJ would not be a factor that would be considered. The only state application I could find with the question is in NH. All you have to do is provide a statement on the back of the form. What do you have to lose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 823 Posted February 7, 2018 .....Yup....just saw that on the NH App. Quote: "What do you have to loose ?.....obviously the fear factor of loosing our 2A in other states.....NJ does this. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted February 7, 2018 You will not lose 2A rights in other states from a denial. Many of us already have CCW permits from multiple States. I for one have no problem applying in NJ. Does anyone really think Utah, Florida, or NH is going to take away your CCW for a NJ denial. I have all 3. I certainly am not worried about losing them because of the communists here. If we don't apply then the state can simply point to the numbers and they will look correct. The number of applications applied for is low, but the percentage approved is high. This is because NJ Firearms owners live in constant fear of the State. If you are not willing to apply you don't deserve the rights granted to you and preserved for you by those who gave their lives. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted February 7, 2018 Given what the anti-2a politicians can try to do I do not want the denial. In the future this COULD be used as a way of taking away our FID, etc. I am VERY conservative when it comes to losing my 2a rights in NJ (what's left of them). I know I am being paranoid but to each their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldguysrule649 397 Posted February 7, 2018 Donated to Mark’s Gofundme. Plan to donate again in the future along with all the other 2A orgs I am a member of and periodically donate to, including CNJFO. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,137 Posted February 7, 2018 back to the original topic...NJ will always have the option to make this or any ccw case go away if the opt to. Just grant the plaintiffs their ccw- done. No more court case. I love the angle of this case- selective granting of rights- but if the plaintifs are granted their license, its over. Or is it? ANJRPC has asked for what appears to be a line-up of more plaintiffs, those who have been denied perhaps in anticipation of just that? So. can NJ effectively keep this case (or any) from advancing buy paying off the applicants with ccw's? Another random thought....because i am not too familiar with ccw qualification isnt there a periodic range time shoot involved to maintain your ccw? If so how does the likes of a old hag like Loretta Weinburg do that? assuming she has a ccw..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikelets456 78 Posted February 7, 2018 14 hours ago, JR88USMC said: that's my point, if us FID holders in this state have already vetted ourselves in every way possible just to own a gun, why shouldn't we be allowed to carry or own whatever we want? no criminal in this state is going to go through the FID process to own a neutered gun, they just buy an un-neutered gun on the black market. You bring up a good point that has me thinking..... Progressives ALWAYS state if we only had "background checks, registration and common sense laws" they'd be satisfied.....well, here's proof, that , once again, they're full of it and they'll never be satisfied until they disarm us. They know darn well in NJ to simply buy a gun you are checked and checked again, fingerprinted, pay fees, jump through hoops, log ammo, meet with the sheriff, handguns registered, AR's banned,break hippa laws to check your mental stability, visit or call references, etc, etc....But this isn't enough? These are all the common sense laws and beyond yet they continue to spew their venom against gun owners saying it's still not enough, It's obvious what their intentions are and we can not give ONE inch to these treasonous demands. Matter of fact, we need to roll back all of these unreasonable and unconstitutional laws. Progressives take away one freedom at a time until you have nothing and this is exactly what they're doing....it basically is illegal to own a gun in NJ unless you follow a very strict, thin slice of exemptions that declare you "legal". Put your foot down, enough is enough! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites