Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, Golf battery said: Youre more than welcome to my orange freddy krueger shirt. Awww... thanks, Golf battery! But I wouldn't dream of taking your prize away. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin125 4,772 Posted February 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Golf battery said: Youre more than welcome to my orange freddy krueger shirt. Isn’t it Red and Gray striped? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 18, 2018 I'm almost complete to submit my app! https://www.nratv.com/home/video/cam-and-company-2018-scott-bach-lawsuit-filed-against-nj-carry-law IF you are Denied Scott back wants you to join their suit with the NRA. If I lose, I win.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Regular Guy 264 Posted February 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Downtownv said: I'm almost complete to submit my app! https://www.nratv.com/home/video/cam-and-company-2018-scott-bach-lawsuit-filed-against-nj-carry-law IF you are Denied Scott back wants you to join their suit with the NRA. If I lose, I win.... Just watched that video. I will apply. If I get denied ( which will most likely be the result) then at least I helped the cause by boosting the stats in the wrongfully denied column by +1. If there's not a lot of people who have applied for CCW, then it could look like not a lot of people are interested in exercising that right and the state already thinks it's ok to take that right away. It's worth applying so I can put my name down as one who wants his 2A rights. I'm going to wait to turn in a CCW application until I get my most recent P2P back. I applied to my local NJSP barracks in November of last year and still have not got it back. The firearms unit in Trenton said the paperwork was approved on January 2nd, but it never came back to the local barracks for me to pick up. I actually got in touch with Stephen Sweeney's office (he's covers my area of NJ) about this unnecessary and preventable infringement on my 2A right and they have started a process to investigate. I know it usually takes a long time in NJ, but if I have to follow all these rules down to the last red hair then they should too. The law says they have 30 days. It's been way longer than that so the only thing I have to do while I wait is to complain about it. So I want to settle this matter before I start another paperwork process with them. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Regular Guy said: Just watched that video. I will apply. If I get denied ( which will most likely be the result) then at least I helped the cause by boosting the stats in the wrongfully denied column by +1. If there's not a lot of people who have applied for CCW, then it could look like not a lot of people are interested in exercising that right and the state already thinks it's ok to take that right away. It's worth applying so I can put my name down as one who wants his 2A rights. That's why i wrote If I am given the permit, I win and if I am denied, I become part of the big fight and that my friends is what is needed! The more denials the better for these lawsuits! Especially when you have Non Resident permits and denied by your own state...Greenwald, feel that warm liquid trickling down your leg? That's me Pissing on you! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muzzelloader69 9 Posted February 19, 2018 Quote Greenwald, feel that warm liquid trickling down your leg? That's me Pissing on you! NICE, that's the spirit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted February 19, 2018 Greenwald, feel that warm liquid trickling down your leg? That's me Pissing on you!Love it. [emoji109] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted February 19, 2018 For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted February 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, maintenanceguy said: For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot? good question...one i was gonna ask after i picked up my paperwork........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted February 19, 2018 Attached you will find the course(s) of fire that NJ LEO (and retired) use to do their twice-yearly qualification. NJleoQual.pdf 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said: Attached you will find the course(s) of fire that NJ LEO (and retired) use to do their twice-yearly qualification. NJleoQual.pdf Thanks for posting this! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said: For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot? 1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said: good question...one i was gonna ask after i picked up my paperwork........ I took most of my courses at the Sig Sauer Academy, with Federal and various state/locals. My CCL courses were there as well. This Facility is well known as military, Feds and states send their personal there. Funny not ONE set of the 3 I have asked for any of those "requirements" I fully expect to be joining the lawsuits...I would be as shocked, (as Donald Trump was when they announced he won the election) to see if they approve me or anybody else for that matter, and that's OK too! Where else could you be a participant in a major lawsuit for $125 ????????? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GramGun79 226 Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said: For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot? is there a training requirement? I don't see that anywhere on the application. pleas post a link of what i should be reading if you have one. TIA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 There is NOT, but per the NJSP, each town can add requirements like qualification, What fire arm will you be carrying, and Finger prints.... ALL Bullshit, but Just what Scott Bach wants! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 2C:58-4. Permits to carry handguns a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit. All permits to carry handguns shall expire 2 years from the date of issuance or, in the case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of his employment by the company occurring prior thereto whichever is earlier in time, and they may thereafter be renewed every 2 years in the same manner and subject to the same conditions as in the case of original applications. b. Application forms. All applications for permits to carry handguns, and all applications for renewal of such permits, shall be made on the forms prescribed by the superintendent. Each application shall set forth the full name, date of birth, sex, residence, occupation, place of business or employment, and physical description of the applicant, and such other information as the superintendent may prescribe for the determination of the applicant's eligibility for a permit and for the proper enforcement of this chapter. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath, and shall be indorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least 3 years preceding the date of application, and who shall certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior. c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry. No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing. d. Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.00. e. Appeals from denial of applications. Any person aggrieved by the denial by the chief police officer or the superintendent of approval for a permit to carry a handgun may request a hearing in the Superior Court of the county in which he resides or in any county in which he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident, by filing a written request for such a hearing within 30 days of the denial. Copies of the request shall be served upon the superintendent, the county prosecutor and the chief police officer of the municipality where the applicant resides, if he is a resident of this State. The hearing shall be held within 30 days of the filing of the request, and no formal pleading or filing fee shall be required. Appeals from the determination at such a hearing shall be in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State. If the superintendent or chief police officer approves an application and the Superior Court denies the application and refuses to issue a permit, the applicant may appeal such denial in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State. f. Revocation of permits. Any permit issued under this section shall be void at such time as the holder thereof becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., and the holder of such a void permit shall immediately surrender the permit to the superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority. Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing upon notice to the holder, if the court finds that the holder is no longer qualified for the issuance of such a permit. The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the superintendent or any citizen may apply to the court at any time for the revocation of any permit issued pursuant to this section. L.1978, c. 95, s. 2C:58-4, eff. Sept. 1, 1979. Amended by L.1979, c. 179, s. 12, eff. Sept. 1, 1979; L.1981, c. 135, s. 1. http://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sp-642.pdf Edited February 19, 2018 by njJoniGuy Editied to add the current application form from the NJSP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted February 19, 2018 Additional Carry Permit info (from the Administrative Code) N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.4 Application for a permit to carry a handgun (a) Every person applying for a permit to carry a handgun shall furnish such information and particulars as set forth in the application form designated SP 642. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath and shall be endorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least three years preceding th e date of application, and who shall also certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior. Applications can be obtained at police departments and State Police stations. (b) Each applicant shall demonstrate a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns by indicating in the space provided therefor on the application form, and on any sworn attachments thereto, any relevant information. Thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns shall be evidenced by: 1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms training approved by the Police Training Commi ssion as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j; 2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police acad emy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other r ecognized certified firearms instructor; and 3. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a certified instructor of a police academy, a cer tified instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified instructor. (c) The information in (b) above shall be accompanied and validated by certifications of the appropriate instructor(s). (d) Each application form shall also be accompanied by a written certification of justifiable need to carry a handgun, which shall be under oath and which: 1. In the case of a private citizen shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self- protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible the applicant shall corroborate the existence of any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of such incidents to the appropriate law enforcement agencies; or 2. In the case of employees of private detective agencies, armored car companies and private security companies, that: i. In the course of performing statutorily authorized duties, the applicant is subject to a substantial threat of serious bodily harm; and ii. That carrying a handgun by the applicant is necessary to reduce the threat of unjustifiable serious bodily harm to any person. (e) The completed application together with tw o sets of the applicant's fingerprints and fees as established by N.J.A.C. 13:59 in accordance with N.J.S.A. 53:1-20.5 et seq., four photographs (1 1/2 x 1 1/2 square), a consent for mental health records search form designated SP 66, and a permit fee of $ 20.00 payable to the County Clerk where the permit is to be issued shall be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or the Superintendent: 1. If there is no full time police department in the municipality where the applicant resides; or 2. If the applicant is a non-resident of this St ate or if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company. N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.5 Approval of application The chief of police or the Superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the applicant to be thoroughly investigated. The investigation shall include, but not be limited to, ascertaining that the applicant satisfies all of the requirements contained in this chapter for obtaining a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, that the applicant has or has not demonstrated a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns as evidenced by the application and accompanying materials, and that the applicant has or has not factually demonstrated a justifiable need to carry a handgun. The chief of police or the Superintendent shall approve or disapprove the application after completion of the investigation. If the application is approved, by the chief of police or the Superintendent, as the case may be, it shall be forwarded to the Superior Court of the county where the applicant resides, or if a nonresident or an employee of an armored car company, to a county where he or she intends to carry the handgun, for presentation to a judge of the Superior Court. N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.6 Application of employees of armored car companies Any application to carry a handgun by an employee of an armored car company shall be accompanied by a letter from the chief executive officer of the armored car company verifying employment of the applicant, endorsing approval of the application and agreeing to notify the Superintendent within five days of the termina tion of an employee to whom any permit is issued, and agreeing to obtain from that employee the permit, which shall be immediately surrendered to the Superintendent. N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.7 Issuance of a permit to carry a handgun (a) Upon being satisfied of the sufficiency of the application and the fulfillment of the provisions of Chapter 58, Laws of 1979, the judge shall issue a permit. (b) The court may, at its discretion, issue a limited type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he or she may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried. (c) The Superintendent shall be provided with copies of all permits to carry handguns issued or re-issued by the Superior Court. N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.8 Appeal (a) Any person making application for a permit to carry a handgun who is denied approval by the chief police officer or the Superintendent may request a hearing in the Superior Court of the county in which he or she resides, or a county in which he or she intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a non resident or an employee of an armored car company. Such request shall be made in writing within 30 days of denial of the application. Copies of the request shall be served on the Superintendent, the county prosecutor and the chief police officer of the municipality where the applicant resides, if he or she is a resident of this State. (b) If the application is denied by the judge of the Superior Court the appeal shall be made in accordance with law. N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.9 Duration and renewal (a) All permits to carry a handgun shall expire two years from the date of issuance or, in the case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of his or her employment by the company occurring prior thereto, whichever is earlier in time. (b) Permits must be renewed in the same manner and subject to the identical procedures by which the original permit was obtained. The chief police officer, the Superintendent and the Superior Court shall process a renewal for a permit to carry a handgun utilizing the same criteria established by this chapter for the issuance of an initial permit. This includes, but is not limited to, a renewed showing by the applicant of need, a renewed demonstration of thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns, as may be evidenced by recitation of all of the information requested on the initial application, including, but not limited to, the applicant's most recent qualification scores in the firing of a handgun. N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.10 Revocation of permits (a) Any permit issued pursuant to this chapter shall be void at such time as the holder no longer meets the requirements of N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5 and 1.6 , and the holder of such a void permit shall immediately surrender it to the Superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority. (b) Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing, upon notice to the holder of the permit, if the Court finds that the holder no longer satisfies the requirements of N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.3 or any applicable law. (c) The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the Superintendent or any citizen may apply to the Court at any time for revocation of any permit issued pursuant to this chapter. (d) Any person having knowledge that a person is subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this chapter and no longer qualifies to carry a handgun may so notify the chief of police, the Superintendent or any other law enforcement officer who may take such action as may be deemed appropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GramGun79 226 Posted February 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said: d. Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.00. would this translate as certified training requirement? seems like trickery. Gives them a reason to deny you for not providing it if you follow the instruction on the actual application. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, GramGun79 said: would this translate as certified training requirement? seems like trickery. Gives them a reason to deny you for not providing it if you follow the instruction on the actual application. That's NRA course 101 QUALIFYING is dramatically Different see njJoniGuy's post... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted February 19, 2018 My local department was very friendly and understood why I was applying. Told me I don't have a chance, but I knew that going in. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, njJoniGuy said: Attached you will find the course(s) of fire that NJ LEO (and retired) use to do their twice-yearly qualification. NJleoQual.pdf So, do you need to have this qualification completed before you apply? I would be applying through the local trooper barracks. I would much rather be denied for not having justifiable need than for not completing some other requirement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, maintenanceguy said: So, do you need to have this qualification completed before you apply? I would be applying through the local trooper barracks. I would much rather be denied for not having justifiable need than for not completing some other requirement. Ask them, they'll be honest about it. 2 minutes ago, capt14k said: My local department was very friendly and understood why I was applying. Told me I don't have a chance, but I knew that going in. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk GOOD FOR YOU! At least there's SOME that fight fight the fight! I am waiting for the Biocom finger print appt... more bull$hit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted February 19, 2018 The way I read it (and IANAL, though I am pretty anal about things), Yes, you need to have completed all the requirements of the permit before you apply, or you are giving them an easy reason to reject your application without even getting to the justifiable need shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, njJoniGuy said: Attached you will find the course(s) of fire that NJ LEO (and retired) use to do their twice-yearly qualification. NJleoQual.pdf THANKS MAN! is that the qualifications they want ccw applicants to meet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downtownv 1,764 Posted February 19, 2018 When I belonged to the Brick Armory several depts used that range for "Qualifying" If the hit the paper at 25 yards they were passed, although I thing the requirement was much higher than that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Regular Guy 264 Posted February 20, 2018 They sure get specific with the wording. How recent does the course have to be? Does the CCW permit actually specify what model gun you are allowed to carry? (These things are like unicorns, you hear about them but never see them) I was in the military from 1998-2007. From 2007-2012 I was a cop, then from 2012-now I'm full time in the National Guard. I think I handled a gun once or twice and was going to use that to show I'm "thoroughly familiar with safely handing of handguns" as the State Code says, but the Administration Code says you have to submit the scores you got with the gun you intend to carry. That could be a problem.... On the bright side, I FINALLY got my P2P today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,134 Posted February 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Downtownv said: I took most of my courses at the Sig Sauer Academy, with Federal and various state/locals. My CCL courses were there as well. This Facility is well known as military, Feds and states send their personal there. Funny not ONE set of the 3 I have asked for any of those "requirements" I fully expect to be joining the lawsuits...I would be as shocked, (as Donald Trump was when they announced he won the election) to see if they approve me or anybody else for that matter, and that's OK too! Where else could you be a participant in a major lawsuit for $125 ????????? By law, they have to deny 99.9% of applicants. No justifiable need equals denied. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,134 Posted February 20, 2018 17 hours ago, maintenanceguy said: For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot? Ever in the Boy Scouts? Shooting / Marksmanship (not sure which it was called) may qualify. Have a firearms hunting license? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,134 Posted February 20, 2018 The entire training and qualifications requirements could be an entirely additional argument to bring up. Poor citizens have just as much of a right to self defense as more well off citizens. Demanding a citizen who may only be able to afford a Hi Point (very, very inexpensive firearm) to pay hundreds of dollars in fees and training who can only afford a $100 firearm is a barrier to exercising their right. Rights don't have qualifications or requirements. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 822 Posted February 20, 2018 Correct.......rights don't have qualifications or requirements.....not all require testing before issuing a permit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted February 20, 2018 I just read the statute and the administrative code. I thought a qualifiying shoot was a requirement. It seems that it's just one of four possible ways to meet the "thoroughly familiar" standard. I'm an NRA certified instructor in pistol so I think that will work. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites