Downtownv

NRA backs lawsuit claiming NJ handgun policy is ‘unconstitutional’

258 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, Downtownv said:

I'm almost complete to submit my app!

https://www.nratv.com/home/video/cam-and-company-2018-scott-bach-lawsuit-filed-against-nj-carry-law

 

 

IF you are Denied Scott back wants you to join their suit with the NRA. If I lose, I win....

Just watched that video. I will apply.  If I get denied ( which will most likely be the result) then at least I helped the cause by boosting the stats in the wrongfully denied column by +1.  

If there's not a lot of people who have applied for CCW, then it could look like not a lot of people are interested in exercising that right and the state already thinks it's ok to take that right away.  It's worth applying so I can put my name down as one who wants his 2A rights.

 

I'm going to wait to turn in a CCW application until I get my most recent P2P back.  I applied to my local NJSP barracks in November of last year and still have not got it back.  The firearms unit in Trenton said the paperwork was approved on January 2nd, but it never came back to the local barracks for me to pick up.  I actually got in touch with Stephen Sweeney's office (he's covers my area of NJ) about this unnecessary and preventable infringement on my 2A right and they have started a process to investigate.  I know it usually takes a long time in NJ, but if I have to follow all these rules down to the last red hair then they should too.  The law says they have 30 days.  It's been way longer than that so the only thing I have to do while I wait is to  complain about it.  So I want to settle this matter before I start another paperwork process with them. 

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4 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

Just watched that video. I will apply.  If I get denied ( which will most likely be the result) then at least I helped the cause by boosting the stats in the wrongfully denied column by +1.  

If there's not a lot of people who have applied for CCW, then it could look like not a lot of people are interested in exercising that right and the state already thinks it's ok to take that right away.  It's worth applying so I can put my name down as one who wants his 2A rights.

That's why i wrote If I am given the permit, I win and if I am denied, I become part of the big fight and that my friends is what is needed!

The more denials the better for these lawsuits!

Especially when you have Non Resident permits and denied by your own state...Greenwald, feel that warm liquid trickling down your leg? That's me Pissing on you!

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1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said:

For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot?

 

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

good question...one i was gonna ask after i picked up my paperwork........

I took most of my courses at the Sig Sauer Academy, with Federal and various state/locals.

My CCL courses were there as well.

This Facility is well known as military, Feds and states send their personal there.

 

Funny not ONE set of the 3 I have asked for any of those "requirements"

I fully expect to be joining the lawsuits...I would be as shocked, (as Donald Trump was when they announced he won the election) to see if they approve me or anybody else for that matter, and that's OK too!

Where else could you be a participant in a major lawsuit  for $125 ?????????

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1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said:

For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot?

is there a training requirement? I don't see that anywhere on the application. pleas post a link of what i should be reading if you have one. TIA

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2C:58-4.  Permits to carry handguns
      a.  Scope and duration of authority.    Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e.  One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and  legal holder of the permit.

    All permits to carry handguns shall expire 2 years from the date of issuance  or, in the case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of  his employment by the company occurring prior thereto whichever is earlier in  time, and they may thereafter be renewed every 2 years in the same manner and  subject to the same conditions as in the case of original applications.

      b.  Application forms.    All applications for permits to carry handguns,  and all applications for renewal of such permits, shall be made on the forms  prescribed by the superintendent.  Each application shall set forth the full  name, date of birth, sex, residence, occupation, place of business or  employment, and physical description of the applicant, and such other information as the superintendent may prescribe for the determination of the applicant's eligibility for a permit and for the proper enforcement of this chapter.  The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath, and shall be indorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least 3 years preceding the date of application, and who shall certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior.

      c.  Investigation and approval.    Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State.  The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in  which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau  of Identification.  He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry.

    No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in 2C:58-3c., that he is thoroughly familiar with  the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to  carry a handgun.  If the application is not approved by the chief police  officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to  have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in  writing.

      d.  Issuance by Superior Court;  fee.    If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be,  the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in  which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he  intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an  armored car company.  The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but  only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who  is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that  he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that  he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun.  The court may at its discretion  issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types  of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be  carried.  At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk  of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.00.

      e.  Appeals from denial of applications.    Any person aggrieved by the denial by the chief police officer or the superintendent of approval for a permit to carry a handgun may request a hearing in the Superior Court of the county in which he resides or in any county in which he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident, by filing a written request for such a hearing within 30 days of the denial.  Copies of the request shall be served upon the superintendent, the county prosecutor and the chief police officer of the municipality where the applicant resides, if he is a resident of this State.  The hearing shall be held within 30 days of the filing of the request, and no formal pleading or filing fee shall be required.  Appeals from the determination at such a hearing shall be in accordance with law and the rules governing the courts of this State.

    If the superintendent or chief police officer approves an application and the Superior Court denies the application and refuses to issue a permit, the applicant may appeal such denial in accordance with law and the rules governing  the courts of this State.

      f.  Revocation of permits.    Any permit issued under this section shall be void at such time as the holder thereof becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., and the holder of such a void permit shall immediately surrender the permit to the superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority.

    Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing upon notice to the holder, if the court finds that the holder is no longer qualified for the issuance of such a permit.  The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the superintendent or any citizen may apply  to the court at any time for the revocation of any permit issued pursuant to  this section.

    L.1978, c. 95, s. 2C:58-4, eff. Sept. 1, 1979.  Amended by L.1979, c. 179, s. 12, eff. Sept. 1, 1979;  L.1981, c. 135, s. 1.
 
 
Edited by njJoniGuy
Editied to add the current application form from the NJSP

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Additional Carry Permit info (from the Administrative Code)

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.4 Application for a permit to carry a handgun

(a) Every person applying for a permit to carry a handgun shall furnish such information and

particulars as set forth in the application form designated SP 642. The application shall be signed

by the applicant under oath and shall be endorsed by three reputable persons who have known

the applicant for at least three years preceding th

e date of application, and who shall also certify

thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior. Applications can be

obtained at police departments and State Police stations.

(b) Each applicant shall demonstrate a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of

handguns by indicating in the space provided therefor on the application form, and on any sworn

attachments thereto, any relevant information. Thorough familiarity with the safe handling and

use of handguns shall be evidenced by:

1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms

training approved by the Police Training Commi

ssion as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j;

2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the

handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a

certified firearms instructor of a police acad

emy, a certified firearms instructor of the

National Rifle Association, or any other r

ecognized certified firearms instructor; and

3. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a

certified instructor of a police academy, a cer

tified instructor of the National Rifle

Association, or any other recognized certified instructor.

(c) The information in (b) above shall be accompanied and validated by certifications of the

appropriate instructor(s).

(d) Each application form shall also be

accompanied by a written certification of justifiable

need to carry a handgun, which shall be under oath and which:

1. In the case of a private citizen shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self-

protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a

special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means other than by

issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible the applicant shall corroborate

the existence of any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of such

incidents to the appropriate law enforcement agencies; or

2. In the case of employees of private detective agencies, armored car companies and

private security companies, that:

i. In the course of performing statutorily authorized duties, the applicant is subject

to a substantial threat of serious bodily harm; and

ii. That carrying a handgun by the applicant is necessary to reduce the threat of

unjustifiable serious bodily harm to any person.

(e) The completed application together with tw

o sets of the applicant's fingerprints and fees as

established by

N.J.A.C. 13:59

in accordance with

N.J.S.A. 53:1-20.5

et seq., four photographs (1

1/2 x 1 1/2 square), a consent for mental health records search form designated SP 66, and a

permit fee of $ 20.00 payable to the County Clerk where the permit is to be issued shall be

submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or the

Superintendent:

1. If there is no full time police department in the municipality where the applicant

resides; or

2. If the applicant is a non-resident of this St

ate or if the applicant is an employee of an

armored car company.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.5 Approval of application

The chief of police or the Superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the applicant to

be thoroughly investigated. The investigation shall include, but not be limited to, ascertaining

that the applicant satisfies all of the requirements contained in this chapter for obtaining a permit

to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, that the applicant has or has

not demonstrated a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns as evidenced

by the application and accompanying materials, and that the applicant has or has not factually

demonstrated a justifiable need to carry a handgun. The chief of police or the Superintendent

shall approve or disapprove the application after completion of the investigation. If the

application is approved, by the chief of police or the Superintendent, as the case may be, it shall

be forwarded to the Superior Court of the county

where the applicant resides, or if a nonresident

or an employee of an armored car company, to a county where he or she intends to carry the

handgun, for presentation to a judge of the Superior Court.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.6 Application of employees of armored car companies

Any application to carry a handgun by an employee of an armored car company shall be

accompanied by a letter from the chief executive officer of the armored car company verifying

employment of the applicant, endorsing approval of the application and agreeing to notify the

Superintendent within five days of the termina

tion of an employee to whom any permit is issued,

and agreeing to obtain from that employee the permit, which shall be immediately surrendered to

the Superintendent.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.7 Issuance of a permit to carry a handgun

(a) Upon being satisfied of the sufficiency

of the application and the fulfillment of the

provisions of Chapter 58, Laws of 1979, the judge shall issue a permit.

(b) The court may, at its discretion, issue a limited type permit which would restrict the

applicant as to the types of handguns he or she may carry and where and for what purposes such

handguns may be carried.

(c) The Superintendent shall be provided with copies of all permits to carry handguns issued or

re-issued by the Superior Court.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.8 Appeal

(a) Any person making application for a permit to carry a handgun who is denied approval by

the chief police officer or the Superintendent may

request a hearing in the Superior Court of the

county in which he or she resides, or a county in which he or she intends to carry a handgun, in

the case of a non resident or an employee of an armored car company. Such request shall be

made in writing within 30 days of denial of the

application. Copies of the request shall be served

on the Superintendent, the county prosecutor and the chief police officer of the municipality

where the applicant resides, if he or she is a resident of this State.

(b) If the application is denied by the judge of the Superior Court the appeal shall be made in

accordance with law.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.9 Duration and renewal

(a) All permits to carry a handgun shall expire two years from the date of issuance or, in the

case of an employee of an armored car company, upon termination of his or her employment by

the company occurring prior thereto, whichever is earlier in time.

(b) Permits must be renewed in the same manner and subject to the identical procedures by

which the original permit was obtained. The chief police officer, the Superintendent and the

Superior Court shall process a renewal for a permit to carry a handgun utilizing the same criteria

established by this chapter for the issuance of an initial permit. This includes, but is not limited

to, a renewed showing by the applicant of need, a renewed demonstration of thorough familiarity

with the safe handling and use of handguns, as may be evidenced by recitation of all of the

information requested on the initial application, including, but not limited to, the applicant's most

recent qualification scores in the firing of a handgun.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.10 Revocation of permits

(a) Any permit issued pursuant to this chapter shall be void at such time as the holder no longer

meets the requirements of

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5

and

1.6

, and the holder of such a void permit shall

immediately surrender it to the Superintendent who shall give notice to the licensing authority.

(b) Any permit may be revoked by the Superior Court, after hearing, upon notice to the holder

of the permit, if the Court finds that the holder no longer satisfies the requirements of

N.J.A.C.

13:54-2.3

or any applicable law.

(c) The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality, the

Superintendent or any citizen may apply to the Court at any time for revocation of any permit

issued pursuant to this chapter.

(d) Any person having knowledge that a person is subject to any of the disabilities set forth in

this chapter and no longer qualifies to carry a handgun may so notify the chief of police, the

Superintendent or any other law enforcement

officer who may take such action as may be

deemed appropriate.

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25 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:


      d.  Issuance by Superior Court;  fee.    If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be,  the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in  which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he  intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an  armored car company.  The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but  only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who  is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in section 2C:58-3c., that  he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that  he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun.  The court may at its discretion  issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types  of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be  carried.  At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk  of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.00.

     

would this translate as certified training requirement? seems like trickery. Gives them a reason to deny you for not providing it if you follow the instruction on the actual application.

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12 minutes ago, GramGun79 said:

would this translate as certified training requirement? seems like trickery. Gives them a reason to deny you for not providing it if you follow the instruction on the actual application.

That's NRA course 101

 

QUALIFYING is dramatically Different see njJoniGuy's post...

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1 hour ago, njJoniGuy said:

Attached you will find the course(s) of fire that NJ LEO (and retired) use to do their twice-yearly qualification.

NJleoQual.pdf

So, do you need to have this qualification completed before you apply?  I would be applying through the local trooper barracks. I would much rather be denied for not having justifiable need than for not completing some other requirement. 

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1 minute ago, maintenanceguy said:

So, do you need to have this qualification completed before you apply?  I would be applying through the local trooper barracks. I would much rather be denied for not having justifiable need than for not completing some other requirement. 

Ask them, they'll be honest about it.

2 minutes ago, capt14k said:

My local department was very friendly and understood why I was applying. Told me I don't have a chance, but I knew that going in.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

GOOD FOR YOU!

At least there's SOME that fight fight the fight!

I am waiting for the Biocom finger print appt... more bull$hit!

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The way I read it (and IANAL, though I am pretty anal about things), Yes, you need to have completed all the requirements of the permit before you apply, or you are giving them an easy reason to reject your application without even getting to the justifiable need shit.

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They sure get specific with the wording.  How recent does the course have to be?  Does the CCW permit actually specify what model gun you are allowed to carry? (These things are like unicorns, you hear about them but never see them) 

I was in the military from 1998-2007.  From 2007-2012 I was a cop, then from 2012-now I'm full time in the National Guard.  I think I handled a gun once or twice :p and was going to use that to show I'm "thoroughly familiar with safely handing of handguns" as the State Code says, but the Administration Code says you have to submit the scores you got with the gun you intend to carry.  That could be a problem.... 

On the bright side, I FINALLY got my P2P today!  

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15 hours ago, Downtownv said:

 

I took most of my courses at the Sig Sauer Academy, with Federal and various state/locals.

My CCL courses were there as well.

This Facility is well known as military, Feds and states send their personal there.

 

Funny not ONE set of the 3 I have asked for any of those "requirements"

I fully expect to be joining the lawsuits...I would be as shocked, (as Donald Trump was when they announced he won the election) to see if they approve me or anybody else for that matter, and that's OK too!

Where else could you be a participant in a major lawsuit  for $125 ?????????

By law, they have to deny 99.9% of applicants.  No justifiable need equals denied.

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17 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

For those who are applying, how are you meeting the requirements for training and the qualifying shoot?

Ever in the Boy Scouts?  Shooting / Marksmanship (not sure which it was called) may qualify.

Have a firearms hunting license?

 

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The entire training and qualifications requirements could be an entirely additional argument to bring up.

Poor citizens have just as much of a right to self defense as more well off citizens.  Demanding a citizen who may only be able to afford a Hi Point (very, very inexpensive firearm) to pay hundreds of dollars in fees and training who can only afford a $100 firearm is a barrier to exercising their right.

Rights don't have qualifications or requirements.  

 

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I just read the statute and the administrative code. I thought a qualifiying shoot was a requirement.  It seems that it's just one of four possible ways to meet the "thoroughly familiar" standard.  I'm an NRA certified instructor in pistol so I think that will work.

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