capt14k 2,051 Posted February 10, 2018 Jesus Christ people, relax. I get it, you are trying to stand behind your favorite pump guns. But facts are facts. Mossbergs are better built, more durable, and more dependable than Remingtons. SorryActually I was just busting balls. Also disappointed to find out another company is fake Made in the U.S.A. I own one shotgun. Remington 870 I got when I was 13 years old. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 11, 2018 39 minutes ago, capt14k said: Actually I was just busting balls. Also disappointed to find out another company is fake Made in the U.S.A. I own one shotgun. Remington 870 I got when I was 13 years old. My first gun was an 870L Wingmaster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted February 11, 2018 Motley Fool saw this coming in November....Colt is right there next to 'em. What I find interesting is the common denominator...Cerberus... https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/30/is-this-major-gun-maker-about-to-go-bankrupt.aspx EDIT and more about Cerberus... http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/a-billionaires-dreams-of-creating-a-guns-empire.html 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted February 11, 2018 2 hours ago, W2MC said: Motley Fool saw this coming in November....Colt is right there next to 'em. What I find interesting is the common denominator...Cerberus... https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/30/is-this-major-gun-maker-about-to-go-bankrupt.aspx EDIT and more about Cerberus... http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/a-billionaires-dreams-of-creating-a-guns-empire.html Good read Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted February 11, 2018 Companies that manufacture guns that are run by figureheads and beancounters who know nothing about making guns sounds folly. It seems that since the debacle of 2012 and negative fallout from Newtown, their plan for survival is selling more and more guns to a smaller and smaller segment of the society. That doesn't bode well for the future of the shooting sports. BTW - the one article cites Cerberus owning the rights to Parker Gun. While true, that occurred when Remington purchased Parker in 1934, but they didn't purchase the Parker Bros. name; hence the name Parker Gun. While you can still order a Parker in high-grade trim and in 28 ga. only, the starting price is $49,000 w/o options. Remington doesn't make them; they are fabricated by CSMC up in CT. At that price, I suspect that they have a very select and limited audience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 12, 2018 I haven’t liked a single gun made by Remington made since they were bought by Freedom Group. The quality is lacking. The only Remington’s I would buy are older pre Freedom Group guns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parker 213 Posted February 13, 2018 Remington hasn't sold anything memorable or earth shattering since the betterment of their 1100 which was the 11-87, announced in 1987. When DuPont sold Remington in 1993, Remington had a 35% share of the market, split between firearms and ammunition. Many new items they developed flopped that were introduced after the sale. For a company that sold mainly long arms, whose market was traditionally hunters, with hunter numbers declining every year, having declined by more than 30% in just the last ten years; who was buying their guns? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted February 13, 2018 They had a gold mine with the ACR but dropped the ball on supporting the platform. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted February 13, 2018 On 2/12/2018 at 8:21 AM, JC_68Westy said: I haven’t liked a single gun made by Remington made since they were bought by Freedom Group. The quality is lacking. The only Remington’s I would buy are older pre Freedom Group guns. Except what @tattooo mentioned 15 minutes ago, tattooo said: They had a gold mine with the ACR but dropped the ball on supporting the platform. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: Except what @tattooo mentioned But they didn't develop it, Magpul did. No innovation at all from Freedom Group. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted February 13, 2018 True, it was the Masada, what a shame another manufacturer didn't buy the rights and make it. The Rem defense mil version is nice but they just recently made good on the civilian caliber conversions that were promised as a selling point since day one. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sevenshot 98 Posted February 15, 2018 I was close to buying the v3. Now having second thoughts. Which made in America SA shotgun is the most comparable? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,134 Posted February 15, 2018 I better hurry and cash this $90 rebate check I just got from them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted February 20, 2018 I have it on good authority, from a friend with contacts inside Remington, that they are filing chapter 11 to restructure. Remington got rid of the bean counting bastard CEO and and upper mgmt responsible for all the cuts in quality and dealing a huge blow to Remington's reputation.. Another friend with a contact inside Marlin, which is owned by Remington (hence Remlin) anyway, his guy said pretty much the same thing about restructuring. So Marlin and Remington are on the same page. Marlin's quality was in the shitter for a while. It's already starting to come back. I think Remington and Marlin will be okay. They will focus on getting QC back to what it should be on their flagship products. They are too iconic to just go away and there is huge brand loyalty for both companies. They will start making great guns again, and we will forgive them in time. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sevenshot 98 Posted February 20, 2018 Good news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted February 20, 2018 Some of the comments at the end tell it all.... https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/2/13/fear-loading-remington-bankruptcy-reorganizationnew-owners/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 18, 2018 http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/17/news/companies/remington-exits-chapter-11/index.html Remington seems to have secured creditors and is resuming operations. Don't know the details, but they aren't going away Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrfly3006 42 Posted May 18, 2018 Nice how that works...run up a basically $775 million credit tab..and then get a judge to wipe the slate clean for ya..Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted May 18, 2018 As provided in the Plan, all shares of Remington’s common stock issued prior to the commencement of Remington’s bankruptcy proceeding were cancelled upon emergence, and Remington has issued new shares of common stock and, in some cases, warrants, to the holders of its previously outstanding funded debt in return for their allowed claims against Remington. If you can't sell it; load it down with debt then essentially 'give' it to the debtors. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/5/17/success-remington-outdoor-company-emerges-from-bankruptcy/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted May 18, 2018 Kinda puts the debate of 870 vs 500 to bed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Ray Ray said: Kinda puts the debate of 870 vs 500 to bed. Yep. Buy the 870. Remington needs the business. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, 10X said: Yep. Buy the 870. Remington needs the business. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted May 18, 2018 3 hours ago, 10X said: Yep. Buy the 870. Remington needs the business. If you really think about it, I am right. If you were gonna buy a brand new car, would you rather the company be thriving (like Mossberg) or in and out of bankruptcy (like Remington)? Right, I thought so. Which is also why noone recommends you buy a used Daewoo or Saturn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 18, 2018 Funny you should say that. Tell that to Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth. They were bailed out, remember Lee Iacocca and the K-car. A bit bigger than Remington, but proof that if you pay attention to your customer and put out a decent product, you can come back. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handyman 5,682 Posted May 18, 2018 That implies loyalty to either a company or the customers. Corporations no longer have either. They run a company into the ground, bail out, and make a seven figure salary elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted May 18, 2018 51 minutes ago, Ray Ray said: If you really think about it, I am right. If you were gonna buy a brand new car, would you rather the company be thriving (like Mossberg) or in and out of bankruptcy (like Remington)? Right, I thought so. Which is also why noone recommends you buy a used Daewoo or Saturn. Then why did you buy a jeep? Nothing wrong with 870 except the safety is in the wrong place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, fishnut said: Then why did you buy a jeep? Nothing wrong with 870 except the safety is in the wrong place. You see the new JLs? I like some of the upgrades but leather seats? Heated seats? Lane departure warning? Fender lights? Yuck Safety is in the wrong spot, action release is in the wrong spot, ejector is non removable, extension tube is non removable. That is BEFORE we talk about what the problems are now. Quality control is gone, reliablity issues, fit and finish issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Ray Ray said: You see the new JLs? I like some of the upgrades but leather seats? Heated seats? Lane departure warning? Fender lights? Yuck Same way I feel about the JKs especially the 4 doors. Sorry As for the 870s if they had a tang safty I'd own one, I can live with everything else you mentioned. 870s like the 500s are beater guns, I don't care what they look like as long as they function properly. Neither is winning any beauty contests. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, fishnut said: As for the 870s if they had a tang safty I'd own one, I can live with everything else you mentioned. 870s like the 500s are beater guns, I don't care what they look like as long as they function properly. Neither is winning any beauty contests. I don't like the Mossberg safety location and prefer the Remington type. And while the Remington's standard safety isn't great, the addition of the Vang Comp Dome Head Safety makes it much better and intuitive. https://vangcomp.com/shop/vcs-remington-dome-head-safety/ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted May 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Ray Ray said: If you really think about it, I am right. If you were gonna buy a brand new car, would you rather the company be thriving (like Mossberg) or in and out of bankruptcy (like Remington)? Right, I thought so. Which is also why noone recommends you buy a used Daewoo or Saturn. There are over 10 million Mossberg 500's and 11 million Remington 870's out there. I don't think you will be hurting for parts anytime soon with either of 'em. W2MC (has one of each) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites