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Trump on board with raising age to own

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13 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Those of you who are jumping ship on Trump....He is playing a game...He is playing the Dems....Give him time here and don't be so quick to rush to judgement. I still say he is on our side and he knows what he is doing!

yeah i keep hearing that, and while i want to believe it, logic says it's nonsense:

1. you're all portraying him to be the most brilliant strategic mind in the history of ever. i've seen little evidence of that so far, and if he were that intelligent he'd be a touch more articulate

2. even assuming point 1 is true, are we really the only ones to have figured out he's playing a game / the dems? ppl like schumer are slimy and disagreeable, but they're not stupid. trust me, if he is trying to play them and you know it and i know it, then they know it too. so...he's playing them and they're playing him? don't buy it. also, what's with all of the game-playing? WE OWN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. they are powerless. no need for games of any kind. if dems call for gun control this and gun control that, ignore it. better still, shout them down with border security, deregulation and illegal immigration

3. all his "games" are doing is emboldening them. they (rightly or wrongly) smell blood in the water. you're seeing a flood of gun control bills being introduced simply as a result of that meeting. will they pass? no. but do you know what they will do? keep gun control top of mind. make people contribute to everytown or whatever gun control group is popular. it's a TERRIBLE strategy. no games. tell them gun control doesn't work, is not the answer and lets focus on mental health and depression and bullying and social media obsession among youth as root causes, not guns. done. end of meeting with congress. go back to your constituents and spread the word

but instead we get games and prolonged exposure and media frenzy and chaos. not a sustainable strategy, even for a brilliant strategic mind such as trump

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The things coming out of Trump's mouth is troubling. He's sounding like a NY liberal. Imagine if Obama was saying these things...it would be SHTF.

The only reason why people are not in full panic mode is because Trump is easily swayed by people and can come back into the fold.

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1 hour ago, Indianajonze said:

yeah i keep hearing that, and while i want to believe it, logic says it's nonsense:

1. you're all portraying him to be the most brilliant strategic mind in the history of ever. i've seen little evidence of that so far, and if he were that intelligent he'd be a touch more articulate

2. even assuming point 1 is true, are we really the only ones to have figured out he's playing a game / the dems? ppl like schumer are slimy and disagreeable, but they're not stupid. trust me, if he is trying to play them and you know it and i know it, then they know it too. so...he's playing them and they're playing him? don't buy it. also, what's with all of the game-playing? WE OWN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. they are powerless. no need for games of any kind. if dems call for gun control this and gun control that, ignore it. better still, shout them down with border security, deregulation and illegal immigration

3. all his "games" are doing is emboldening them. they (rightly or wrongly) smell blood in the water. you're seeing a flood of gun control bills being introduced simply as a result of that meeting. will they pass? no. but do you know what they will do? keep gun control top of mind. make people contribute to everytown or whatever gun control group is popular. it's a TERRIBLE strategy. no games. tell them gun control doesn't work, is not the answer and lets focus on mental health and depression and bullying and social media obsession among youth as root causes, not guns. done. end of meeting with congress. go back to your constituents and spread the word

but instead we get games and prolonged exposure and media frenzy and chaos. not a sustainable strategy, even for a brilliant strategic mind such as trump

Well I am skeptical that Trump isn't turning on us, it is possible that this is strategy. 

1) You don't have to be articulate to be smart. Some folks who are smart choose to play down their verbal skill for their benefit. 

2) There's trying to outsmart your opposition, and then there's a card force. It's a term from magic tricks. In this case Trump insisted he get a bundled up omnibus. Schumer knows that an AWB of any flavor, much less the semi-auto ban is BS and won't pass. He even said their isn't full support for an AWB on the dem side of the aisle. So. Send in stuff without the AWB, trump can thump the table and say not good enough. Send it with and it all dies before it hits him.  It's not genius, but it is a valid stalling tactic as well as requiring congress members to put their name to very specific gun control. By requesting bundling, it means all the "weak" gun grabbers have to jump off the same bridge as their zealot friends. 

3) This may not be accidental. Gun control is very often a losing issue at the polls. If you see midterms as a fight, having the opposition rally your base is free, and if you are facing the shit storm in the media anyway, you might as well benefit form it as much as possible. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, raz-0 said:

Well I am skeptical that Trump isn't turning on us, it is possible that this is strategy. 

1) You don't have to be articulate to be smart. Some folks who are smart choose to play down their verbal skill for their benefit. 

2) There's trying to outsmart your opposition, and then there's a card force. It's a term from magic tricks. In this case Trump insisted he get a bundled up omnibus. Schumer knows that an AWB of any flavor, much less the semi-auto ban is BS and won't pass. He even said their isn't full support for an AWB on the dem side of the aisle. So. Send in stuff without the AWB, trump can thump the table and say not good enough. Send it with and it all dies before it hits him.  It's not genius, but it is a valid stalling tactic as well as requiring congress members to put their name to very specific gun control. By requesting bundling, it means all the "weak" gun grabbers have to jump off the same bridge as their zealot friends

3) This may not be accidental. Gun control is very often a losing issue at the polls. If you see midterms as a fight, having the opposition rally your base is free, and if you are facing the shit storm in the media anyway, you might as well benefit form it as much as possible

 

 

 

thats about as well as anyone could have said it. i do think trump is smarter then he sounds, weather he downplays his vocab. on purpose or not i dont know. you dont need to be a mastermind tactician to understand how to call bluffs and force hands.

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Well he either is getting sucked into the belief that “something” should be done while knowing that all of these measures do absolutely nothing to lessen the threat to schools...or....he knows that its easier sometimes to make your enemies look bad than it is to make yourself look good.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyB said:

I think @matty is saying shame on you for not trusting President Trump and not believing in him even though you have not yet lost a thing! Give the man a chance!

i didn't trust him when i pressed the button to vote for him. to be totally honest, i didn't so much vote for him, as i was voting against the bitch. even with the good things he's accomplished, the republitards had quite a few better candidates than trump. i hoped and prayed that he wouldn't turn on us. i was starting to think i was wrong to mis-trust him.....but....the path he seems to be following appear to be proving my reservations to have been correct.

 

 i guess we'll see if you guys are right and he's playing quadruple 54teen level chess or not........

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Just now, 1LtCAP said:

i didn't trust him when i pressed the button to vote for him. to be totally honest, i didn't so much vote for him, as i was voting against the bitch. even with the good things he's accomplished, the republitards had quite a few better candidates than trump. i hoped and prayed that he wouldn't turn on us. i was starting to think i was wrong to mis-trust him.....but....the path he seems to be following appear to be proving my reservations to have been correct.

 

 i guess we'll see if you guys are right and he's playing quadruple 54teen level chess or not........

What 2A rights have you lost so far because of Trump?.......Enough said!

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I don't think Trump is playing Umpteenth Level Chess. I think he is so damn fickle and has such a desire to be liked that it's whoever gets in his ear last and most is where he stands. In reality he is being coached playing checkers and it may just work.

 

 

On another note did anyone catch that Liberal Turd Bill Maher with that David Hogg punk on there with another kid? The other kid said "We forgive the generations before us who fucked everything up, but we are going to fix it". The Conservative media needs to harp on this comment. Who the hell is he to say he forgives the Greatest Generation who jumped out of perfectly good airplanes and poured out of perfectly good boats to storm the beaches of Normandy all while Nazi bullets were coming straight at them. I almost threw the remote through the TV. Then he said we believe in the Second Amendment my dad was a cop and his was an FBI agent, but I don't see a need to defend ones home or shoot an animal with an AR-15. Then that waste of space Maher asked him if he remembered Bush and he said no, but he does remember being at an Obama rally at the age of 7. I couldn't take it anymore and shut it off.

 

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On 3/3/2018 at 1:53 PM, capt14k said:

I don't think Trump is playing Umpteenth Level Chess. I think he is so damn fickle and has such a desire to be liked that it's whoever gets in his ear last and most is where he stands. In reality he is being coached playing checkers and it may just work.

 

 

On another note did anyone catch that Liberal Turd Bill Maher with that David Hogg punk on there with another kid? The other kid said "We forgive the generations before us who fucked everything up, but we are going to fix it". The Conservative media needs to harp on this comment. Who the hell is he to say he forgives the Greatest Generation who jumped out of perfectly good airplanes and poured out of perfectly good boats to storm the beaches of Normandy all while Nazi bullets were coming straight at them. I almost threw the remote through the TV. Then he said we believe in the Second Amendment my dad was a cop and his was an FBI agent, but I don't see a need to defend ones home or shoot an animal with an AR-15. Then that waste of space Maher asked him if he remembered Bush and he said no, but he does remember being at an Obama rally at the age of 7. I couldn't take it anymore and shut it off.

 

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He needs to stfu. He doesn’t deserve to ties the shoes of the generations that came before him.

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On 3/3/2018 at 0:00 AM, JohnnyB said:

What 2A rights have you lost so far because of Trump?.......Enough said!

Johnny.  That’s sort of like being an hour away from a place you have an appointment you have ten minutes from now and saying......”we’re not late yet.”

But it’s not about what has actually been done to 2A rights so far....it’s about the statements he’s been making.  They are not Pro 2A and there’s no way in hell anyone here can say they are pro 2A.  That’s bad for everyone.  It isn’t the 7D chess argument. It’s simply a bad idea to give up the ground he has given up and not argued for the 2A as a capable 2A supporter would argue.

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On 3/2/2018 at 11:50 PM, JohnnyB said:

I think @matty is saying shame on you for not trusting President Trump and not believing in him even though you have not yet lost a thing! Give the man a chance!

Had to add....

He is not making the case for Constitutionality he should be making.  Anyone who sees it differently......well... is wrong.

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12 minutes ago, Kevin125 said:

Had to add....

He is not making the case for Constitutionality he should be making.  Anyone who sees it differently......well... is wrong.

Kevin,

What he says at times may seem wrong but I truly believe it's all the "art of the deal", a game he plays with peoples heads! what matters is what happens in the end! The end is not yet here. Give the man a chance!

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I wanted to avoid this thread as much as possible, but after FL passing SB 7026 recently I'm disappointed with Trump. His recent statements about 2A has been nothing but damning and most likely planted seeds into the FL Republicans to give into the Democrats. The vote was 20 to 18. He is setting off these gun grabbers on a mission at the state level to pass laws that would most likely get struck down federally.

Trump has made me aware that whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or Independent you are not to be trusted as a politician in office. I was all for Trump after the other mass shootings that occurred before the FL one as no legislation came out of them. I see nothing at the bargaining table like others have said. So why even put out wild statements that no one would agree with in the first place? It's late and I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into this post.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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And today he congratulated them on "very good" gun legislation. You apologists still think he's playing 4d chess or some other such nonsense? What are we getting out of losing Florida? And this on top of him having a meeting today where he basically turned back the clock to the 90s and blamed the video game industry for the shootings. Had a bunch of stiffs in the room calling for outright censorship

 

 

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Trump simply isn't a gun guy.  He doesn't know anyone who is and has never been exposed to people who value gun ownership.  He feels about gun rights the same way I feel about comic-con.  It doesn't bother me but it's a little strange and unnecessary. 

He showed up at the NRA convention to get the votes from a few gun nuts but with 5 million members, he figured it was a pretty tiny voting block.  If 50% showed up, he might get 2-1/2 million votes across the whole country so it was worth the 20 minute stop but not critical.  Supporting banning guns won't be a big deal - he thought.

His advisors had probably mentioned that he shouldn't support gun control but he didn't really believe it.  It's a non issue for him so if the democrats want gun control, he figured he should support it.  He can trade it for something he wants.  Besides, only a few toothless rednecks actually care about the issue - or he thought.

As soon as he heard the outcry, he backed off.  But, he still doesn't really get it.  So he will continue to fumble the ball because he just can't wrap his head around the fact that there are a lot of Americans who actually care about this stuff and that a huge chunk of his voting block does.

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On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:53 PM, capt14k said:

I don't think Trump is playing Umpteenth Level Chess. I think he is so damn fickle and has such a desire to be liked that it's whoever gets in his ear last and most is where he stands. In reality he is being coached playing checkers and it may just work.

I agree with you and the others on here who view this recent behavior as fickleness. (And, as stated previously, I think gun owners need to be swamping Trump directly via emails and calls to the White House. If Trump is so easily swayed (and I believe he is)... we should be the side that is pushing harder and shouting louder to sway him over to the pro-2A position). 

But, I can't say I'm surprised by his recent rhetoric... a bit disappointed, but not surprised. In fact, if anything surprises me, it's that  his comments were so consistently pro-2A up to this point!

To this day, I still feel I had 2 pretty lousy choices at the polling station. The choice between an entitled, arrogant lifelong politician who, among other things, felt that basic security procedures were beneath her and who seemed willing to embrace the most extreme new positions of the Democratic party... and a mercurial, pompous billionaire/reality TV star with a cringe-worthy communication style and a thoroughly uninformed, wishy-washy history on some key issues. At the time, I felt these 2 individuals were seriously flawed - and I still feel that way today. But, those were the choices in front of me. 

Looking over the past year, I love several of the things Trump's done, don't like others, and am downright exasperated at a few. For those of you who truly admire Trump and hold to the "3D chess/art of the deal" theory...(particularly on 2A), I think you're in for some serious disappointment. I think a more realistic hope is that Trump continues to appoint young, talented judges who have a much deeper appreciation for the Bill of Rights than he does himself.  If we get nothing more than that, I'll personally be satisfied.

A final thought... though his rhetoric after this shooting has been stupid and weak, I believe if this same shooting had occurred while HRC was President, we'd be in far deeper trouble. She would have bent over like a reed to keep her party's loudest constituents happy (Moms Demand Action, etc).  I believe a Federal gun ban would have been signed already... talk of an "Australian-style gun buy-back" would be filling the airwaves... and SCOTUS would already have been swayed left by her appointment, putting the future of gun rights on  a slippery slope to destruction. That doesn't excuse Trump's recent statements; it just puts them in perspective.

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The reason Trump is a win for me is the Supreme Court.  Hopefully, we will get two new justices in the next 8 years and I really need Trump to hold on long enough to make the appointments.  Moving two liberals off of the court and two conservatives on changes America for the next couple of generations. It's very possible that those appointments won't be quite conservative enough for my liking but they will be better than what we have now.

So, I will tolerate the childish tweeting, poor communication skills, and other issues.  Frankly, he's done several things that have pleased me.  He's done a few that I didn't care for.  I didn't vote for him in the primaries but he is better than the alternative would have been.  Trump 2020!

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The reason Trump is a win for me is the Supreme Court.  Hopefully, we will get two new justices in the next 8 years and I really need Trump to hold on long enough to make the appointments.  Moving two liberals off of the court and two conservatives on changes America for the next couple of generations. It's very possible that those appointments won't be quite conservative enough for my liking but they will be better than what we have now.
So, I will tolerate the childish tweeting, poor communication skills, and other issues.  Frankly, he's done several things that have pleased me.  He's done a few that I didn't care for.  I didn't vote for him in the primaries but he is better than the alternative would have been.  Trump 2020!


My mantra during the election was SCOTUS. Once we got Gorsuch I admittedly got greedy and bought into Trump and what he would do for Second Amendment Rights. I have now lowered my expectations to avoid further disappointment. However I do believe we will get another Justice next year when Kennedy retires. I think because of how the Dems handled Gorsuch the next one will be more Conservative than Thomas. If it happens it will be a bonus. If we can get a third Justice that replaces Ginsburg I will be overjoyed.


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1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

As I always said, he is playing a mind with the Dems and we have little to worry about! @1LtCAP, his next appointment to the Supreme Court will be from the list!

I wouldn't say we have nothing to worry about, but Trump is an excellent gambler.  I said a while ago that he's a master of game theory and he is applying it to all of his negotiations and decisions.  Just last night on Gutfeld, his guest Dr. Drew Pinsky said exactly what I had been thinking abut DJT and game theory for some time.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5749201535001/?playlist_id=5536260051001#sp=show-clips

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