I Appreciate Assault Weapons. And I Support a Ban

[capt14k 2,052]

Hmmmm.... I wonder if those SROs had rifle plates and rifles - weapons equal to the shooter and protection from his rounds - would they have run in?

Should first responders face almost certain death because they aren’t allowed to have the same weapons and equipment we allow our citizens to own?

If the people of our nation should be allowed to have AR type rifles, and I truly believe the do, then the organization tasked with policing the people should have the tools to do so.

 

Hmmm I wonder if the Coral Springs Police and Firemen who were off duty and ran in had rifle plates and rifles? Nope they didn't. One Coral Springs Police Officer was working on the baseball field and was given another Coral Springs Officer backup pistol and and Flak Jacket. He was wearing shorts and a T-Shirt otherwise. 

I never said police shouldn't have ARs. I said they don't need to be standing on street corners in full tactical gear. Also I don't want uniformed police in schools. Next we will be needing to show papers to move from one zone to the next.

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

Asking a teacher who has little to no experience with firearms even a CCW to volunteer to carry in a building full of people in very close quarters is a recipe for disaster IMHO. I shoot quite a bit but add panic and Adrenalin and I would be very afraid of hitting a child where inches matter. 

Teachers who are retired LEO or military with extensive weapons use and training would be an exception. As would highly weapons trained and experienced teachers. All should have to pass an extensive test at a police academy and decisions made on a case by case basis.  I have absolutely nothing against uniformed or plain clothed cops being SROs. Even those must be chosen with care as many cops would not be well suited for that job.

 

No one would force teachers to carry. Completely voluntary. Also would require training.

 

 

Many Retired Municipal Cops who are hired now as Special III in NJ at $12/hr have never fired their firearm on duty or been fired at.

 

 

I can live with ex Veterans and ex police who are fully vetted and carrying concealed at schools. I would give preference to Veterans first. However also allowing teachers to be armed is another layer of protection and more immediate protection.

 

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[AlDente67 563]

On 2/23/2018 at 11:17 PM, 1LtCAP said:

well thars yer problem. the 2a is not(supposed to be) open to interpretation. it's very simple. it's right there on paper. can't get much clearer than those words.

Somebody wrote in to the Ledger last Sunday that the 2A says you can have one musket and one round (musket ball), not any scary assault weapons.

I swear, that was the exact content of the letter.

[capt14k 2,052]

Somebody wrote in to the Ledger last Sunday that the 2A says you can have one musket and one round (musket ball), not any scary assault weapons.
I swear, that was the exact content of the letter.

Reply to them in that case 1A doesn't cover the internet.

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[AlDente67 563]

Apparently, the students at the town HS plan to stage a walk-out this week  in protest against guns, no doubt with the support of the administration.  My kid mocked up a 'walk-in' page in reply, as a goof, and you should see the nasty comments they are leaving on his page.  He loves it.  Lol!

He doesn't even care about guns.  The one time I took him to the range, he said it was boring.

[Zeke 5,504]

45 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Hmmmm....

I wonder if those SROs had rifle plates and rifles - weapons equal to the shooter and protection from his rounds - would they have run in?

Should first responders face almost certain death because they aren’t allowed to have the same weapons and equipment we allow our citizens to own?

If the people of our nation should be allowed to have AR type rifles, and I truly believe the do, then the organization tasked with policing the people should have the tools to do so.

I know our Pd has sw 15 and mp5 in car. Helmet, plate carrier etc. I’m not sure if our SRO has this. The SRO is quite possibly the largest man I’ve ever met, 6-6 340.

the other thing that bugs me, I’ve been informed numerous times by the hierarchy that active shooter protocol, is go in, make contact as soon as on scene. Our town guys train that way. I guess boward co fl is different?

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 

We do not need to expand the police state. What we need is to allow the teachers to be armed. If the Flroida Shooting has shown anything it is that the SRO didn't do a damn thing. Neither did the next 3 Sheriff Deputies who showed up. Maybe because SCOTUS has ruled police have no duty to protect, and they were all afraid? Maybe because they were given stand down orders? Bottom line is I don't care to turn the United States into Isreal. It disgusts me when I see police in tactical gear carrying submachine guns on the streets of NYC or anywhere else. When we give up our freedoms in this country and allow the police to act look like an occupying military we have lost and they have won.


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Yes having the SRO in Florida failed.  The other three deputies didn't go in either. That means we should abandon the idea?  There are a few people in car accidents who are killed by their seat belt.  Should we stop wearing seat belts? Being a gunfighter is just a small part of what a SRO needs to be able to do.  More on that later.

The fact that we live under threat of terrorist attack probably warrants having police in tactical gear patrolling likely targets.  Yes citizens should be able to be armed.  However that's really not the answer to a Mubai type terrorist attack.

[Sevenshot 98]

SRO was the hero at my wife's high school, Orange High, in Hillsborough, NC. Zero losses of life. Look it up. Anything is better than nothing.

You never know how you'll react until you are put in the same situation. Also things can change in your own life that can flip you. Knew a guy who was going to stay in combat infantry until he was forced out. Complete 360 after he became a grandfather in mid 40s. 

[capt14k 2,052]

Yes having the SRO in Florida failed.  The other three deputies didn't go in either. That means we should abandon the idea?  There are a few people in car accidents who are killed by their seat belt.  Should we stop wearing seat belts? Being a gunfighter is just a small part of what a SRO needs to be able to do.  More on that later.

The fact that we live under threat of terrorist attack probably warrants having police in tactical gear patrolling likely targets.  Yes citizens should be able to be armed.  However that's really not the answer to a Mubai type terrorist attack.

No I don't want armed uniformed police in schools period. I also don't want them in the streets and at public targets I would bring my family to. Once we allow America to turn into a complete police state, and we are living in constant fear, terrorists and evil has won. I don't want America to ever look like Israel.

 

 

Because the SRO failed in Florida is just another reason. School shootings are still very rare. A child is 3x more likely to die in a bathtub.

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 

No one would force teachers to carry. Completely voluntary. Also would require training.

 

 

Many Retired Municipal Cops who are hired now as Special III in NJ at $12/hr have never fired their firearm on duty or been fired at.

 

 

I can live with ex Veterans and ex police who are fully vetted and carrying concealed at schools. I would give preference to Veterans first. However also allowing teachers to be armed is another layer of protection and more immediate protection.

 

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I agree teachers carrying should be voluntary and they should be trained.  I've been a teacher and a cop.  Yes, both were some time ago.  There would be exactly 2 teachers in the last school I taught in who could be relied on in something like a school shooting IMO. 

Most cops have never fired their gun at a hostile target and have never been shot at.  That happens a lot of times not to avoiding danger but because of good tactics and planning.  There are thousands of times a cop is justified in shooting someone and doesn't for every time for the times a cop shoots someone. 

When was the last time you saw a news report of, "Police don't shoot suspect even though it was warranted.  They just arrested him".

Wouldn't hiring specials as SROs be "expanding the police state".  They do have police powers.

I always see people suggesting hiring veterans for such jobs.  I don't think being a veteran gives you a special qualification for a job like a SRO.  Most veterans have nevery fired a shot in anger.  Firearms and tactics training in the military depend on what your job is.  The sailor who launches missiles from a submarine doesn't need to be trained in fire and maneuver.  The Army requires everyone to maintain a basic proficiency in such things (Google US Army Warrior Tasks). That doesn't mean they would make good SROs.

A SRO needs to be a cop IMO.  The SRO needs to have authority to do that job.  A security guard really doesn't much, if any, authority.

I agree discussion of what a SRO does is a topic for another thread.  A SRO needs to be able to deal with kids and gather intelligence proactively to avoid problems.

[capt14k 2,052]

I agree teachers carrying should be voluntary and they should be trained.  I've been a teacher and a cop.  Yes, both were some time ago.  There would be exactly 2 teachers in the last school I taught in who could be relied on in something like a school shooting IMO. 

Most cops have never fired their gun at a hostile target and have never been shot at.  That happens a lot of times not to avoiding danger but because of good tactics and planning.  There are thousands of times a cop is justified in shooting someone and doesn't for every time for the times a cop shoots someone. 

When was the last time you saw a news report of, "Police don't shoot suspect even though it was warranted.  They just arrested him".

Wouldn't hiring specials as SROs be "expanding the police state".  They do have police powers.

I always see people suggesting hiring veterans for such jobs.  I don't think being a veteran gives you a special qualification for a job like a SRO.  Most veterans have nevery fired a shot in anger.  Firearms and tactics training in the military depend on what your job is.  The sailor who launches missiles from a submarine doesn't need to be trained in fire and maneuver.  The Army requires everyone to maintain a basic proficiency in such things (Google US Army Warrior Tasks). That doesn't mean they would make good SROs.

A SRO needs to be a cop IMO.  The SRO needs to have authority to do that job.  A security guard really doesn't much, if any, authority.

I agree discussion of what a SRO does is a topic for another thread.  A SRO needs to be able to deal with kids and gather intelligence proactively to avoid problems.

I managed to get through school without any SROs or Security Guards. I honestly think it is an over reaction right now. Like I said a child is 3x more likely to die in a bathtub than to be killed in school. If we add armed security carrying concealed not in uniform I don't want them to have police powers. I don't want 1984 to be a reality and have freedom and liberty further eroded in the name of safety and security.

 

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

6 minutes ago, capt14k said:

No I don't want armed uniformed police in schools period. I also don't want them in the streets and at public targets I would bring my family to. Once we allow America to turn into a complete police state, and we are living in constant fear, terrorists and evil has won. I don't want America to ever look like Israel.

 

 

Because the SRO failed in Florida is just another reason. School shootings are still very rare. A child is 3x more likely to die in a bathtub.

 

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You'd be happy if we did away with police totally?  

1 minute ago, capt14k said:

I managed to get through school without any SROs or Security Guards. I honestly think it is an over reaction right now. Like I said a child is 3x more likely to die in a bathtub than to be killed in school. If we add armed security carrying concealed not in uniform I don't want them to have police powers.

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We both went through high school at a different time.  Then is then and now is now.  

Do you have a fear of uniforms?  Yes uniforms display authority among other things.  They also show people who the good guys are.  That's why plainclothes cops wear raid jackets.  In a school shooting situation is that the shooter or is it the security guard?

[capt14k 2,052]

We both went through high school at a different time.  Then is then and now is now.  

Do you have a fear of uniforms?  Yes uniforms display authority among other things.  They also show people who the good guys are.  That's why plainclothes cops wear raid jackets.  In a school shooting situation is that the shooter or is it the security guard?

Not police period, but I also don't feel there is a need for 50-75 man departments in places like Manalapan. Manalapan has reduced almost 20 officers and crime has not risen.

 

 

I don't feel there is a need for authority to be in the face of free society. The Nazis did, East Germans too. Uniforms have their place. It isn't in schools or Disneyworld. By showing force it may deter the few and far between terrorist attack, but it is also a way for the state to exert control over the populace. I would rather an armed populace to act as the deterrent, and the police to work with the people.

 

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[Ray Ray 3,566]

7 pages of what?

[Twospot 38]

Please correct me if I'm wrong because, since you guys are more well versed in this area... But the AR-15 is an assault weapon? Since when? Doesn't it take a .223 like countless hunting rifles? Why aren't those rifles with beautiful walnut stocks and classic looks being scrutinized?

[voyager9 3,434]

11 minutes ago, Twospot said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong because, since you guys are more well versed in this area... But the AR-15 is an assault weapon? Since when? Doesn't it take a .223 like countless hunting rifles? Why aren't those rifles with beautiful walnut stocks and classic looks being scrutinized?

An AW is a made up term that can mean whatever they want it to mean. Today it’s the AR, tomorrow it could be bolt-action.  Really it’s synonmous with “low hanging fruit”

[JohnnyB 4,322]

The AR15 is an assault weapon because it looks scary and it's black! So says the MSM!

[voyager9 3,434]

1 minute ago, JohnnyB said:

The AR15 is an assault weapon because it looks scary and it's black! So says the MSM!

Point of order: The AR’s that some of you have is not an AW... yet. 

[Guest]

As a veteran, I really hate when other veteran's give their opinion on the opposition of guns. They are merely a SJW validating the feels of other SJW's. In fact I hate when veterans say "as a veteran" it really means jack shit in any sort of discussion unless we're talking about the VA healthcare system and how it needs to be fixed, or on veteran's day when you go to Applebee's to get your free buffalo wings. 

Yes we all know the Military uses Carbines, but the AR-15 Carbine was a consumer product before it became a piece of issued Gear from the Military. The Military uses a lot of consumer items and paint them green or modify them for heavier duty purposes. The term Military Grade means it's rugged enough to withstand all different conditions the Military works through.The military uses Viking Stoves, why does anyone need a military grade stove in their kitchen?

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

 The sailor who launches missiles from a submarine doesn't need to be trained in fire and maneuver.  

I would beg to differ. We were trained to fire/maneuver as a team as part of repel boarders, and weapons (both nuclear and conventional) security....with specific focus on the environment inside a submarine. Trained with 1911’s, shotgun, and M-16 for inside the boat and repel boarders. Certain situations at sea (surface transit in hostile areas), we had to qual the M-60. 

That does NOT mean we would be good as a fire team outside that environment....or as an SRO. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

16 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

I would beg to differ. We were trained to fire/maneuver as a team as part of repel boarders, and weapons (both nuclear and conventional) security....with specific focus on the environment inside a submarine. Trained with 1911’s, shotgun, and M-16 for inside the boat and repel boarders. Certain situations at sea (surface transit in hostile areas), we had to qual the M-60. 

That does NOT mean we would be good as a fire team outside that environment....or as an SRO. 

I stand corrected. Didn't think of that.  Thanks for bringing that up!

[Avi 12]

Go to mommy Troll

[JohnnyB 4,322]

2 minutes ago, Avi said:

Go to mommy Troll

239 posts and only 6 likes! I wonder why!

[AVB-AMG 530]

51 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

I would beg to differ. We were trained to fire/maneuver as a team as part of repel boarders, and weapons (both nuclear and conventional) security....with specific focus on the environment inside a submarine. Trained with 1911’s, shotgun, and M-16 for inside the boat and repel boarders. Certain situations at sea (surface transit in hostile areas), we had to qual the M-60. 

That does NOT mean we would be good as a fire team outside that environment....or as an SRO. 

GRIZ & Displaced Texan:

Maybe you two should go to this year's Army-Navy football game as friendly rivals.....?
GRIZ: I suggest that you ask Displaced Texan to be responsible for the tailgating food.....

AVB-AMG

[matty 810]

1 hour ago, Displaced Texan said:

I would beg to differ. We were trained to fire/maneuver as a team as part of repel boarders, and weapons (both nuclear and conventional) security....with specific focus on the environment inside a submarine. Trained with 1911’s, shotgun, and M-16 for inside the boat and repel boarders. Certain situations at sea (surface transit in hostile areas), we had to qual the M-60. 

That does NOT mean we would be good as a fire team outside that environment....or as an SRO. 

In USAFE we hadda train in either amateur EOD (identifying and marking unexploded cluster bomblets or other UXO, and identifying standing pools of chemical agents) or RRR (rapid runway repair, fixing holes in runway/taxiway), or load ammo and bombs (combat turns).  My crew did the last one since we knew how to load the pods, flares & chaff.

Or else you were a security augmentee, which means they put you on the fence with a rifle. In England in the woods in the rain.

In Strategic Air Command at the time, you were supposed to get the (nuke loaded) aircraft off the ground, then die in an atomic weapons explosion a few minutes later, if you were lucky. So we had no such extra jobs or weapons training beyond annual, if they found time to do that.

[voyager9 3,434]

1 hour ago, Displaced Texan said:

I would beg to differ. We were trained to fire/maneuver as a team as part of repel boarders, and weapons (both nuclear and conventional) security....with specific focus on the environment inside a submarine. Trained with 1911’s, shotgun, and M-16 for inside the boat and repel boarders. Certain situations at sea (surface transit in hostile areas), we had to qual the M-60. 

That does NOT mean we would be good as a fire team outside that environment....or as an SRO. 

Squids don’t count. 

[capt14k 2,052]

The argument that only cops should be hired as armed SRO, because they are better trained in firearms fails IMO. Many municipal police only need to qualify once a year. This study also shows that their training does not make them a statistically better shot.

 

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/robert-farago/study-why-police-firearms-training-sucks/

 

 

Also today's Veteran is much different than those of the post Vietnam Era. We have been at war for almost 2 decades. Many have been in firefights. Also many of our Vets are out of work. Retired Police are collecting a Pension. Though the Vet should be given preference, if all else is equal, the best candidate for the job should be hired. They should be in plain clothes and carrying concealed in a school situation. If they need something to identify themselves a baseball cap will do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

13 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Squids don’t count. 

Don’t make me turn you over my knee and spank you...

[Zeke 5,504]

41 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

Don’t make me turn you over my knee and spank you...

He’d Never show up for that.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Okay, what is this thread all about?