Coincidence????

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I've learned not to put anything past the liberal, anti-2A zealots. Decide for yourself...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he-disarmed-a-possible-church-shooter-—-then-the-police-arrived/ar-BBJG5UD?li=BBnb7Kz

Just so nicely accommodates one of their major talking points about arming teachers or the general population. If anything this just points out the need for additional training (and disciplinary action) for that particular officer.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[Sevenshot 98]

disarming a potential shooter happens more often than people think. having to worry about being confused as the shooter happens more often than you think but less so. Media rarely focuses on the former.

If teachers are armed in schools, there's a whole new set of training that has to occur for both teachers and LE.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

2 hours ago, Sevenshot said:

disarming a potential shooter happens more often than people think. having to worry about being confused as the shooter happens more often than you think but less so. Media rarely focuses on the former.

If teachers are armed in schools, there's a whole new set of training that has to occur for both teachers and LE.

over on farcebook, i saw someone saying that teachers would be mistaken for the shooter. they're wrong. we all know that those who choose to carry will receive training, and will probably receive some form of additional training from their local pd's. the officers on those pd's will know who is carrying, and they will be familiar with them, so as to not have this happen.......but then i remembered that i was talking to someone that can't comprehend the simplest of common sense solutions.......

[GRIZ 3,369]

3 hours ago, Sevenshot said:

disarming a potential shooter happens more often than people think. having to worry about being confused as the shooter happens more often than you think but less so. Media rarely focuses on the former.

If teachers are armed in schools, there's a whole new set of training that has to occur for both teachers and LE.

LE has dealt with friendly fire incidents between plain clothes and uniformed officers for years.  They adopted some very simple tactics to almost eliminate it.  Like anything else, nothing is 100%.

I am in favor of allowing teachers, administrators, and other staff to be trained and armed.  That's not going to completely solve the problem though.  I still think you need a uniformed police officer as a SRO.

[Handyman 5,682]

I'm of the opinion that if you are well intentioned with a gun out on scene when LEOs roll up, there's probably about a 70% chance you're dead before they try to sort out the facts.

This poor jerk didn't even have a gun - he took it away from the would-be killer.

[GRIZ 3,369]

11 minutes ago, Handyman said:

I'm of the opinion that if you are well intentioned with a gun out on scene when LEOs roll up, there's probably about a 70% chance you're dead before they try to sort out the facts.

This poor jerk didn't even have a gun - he took it away from the would-be killer.

I disagree.  I've been the one in plain clothes with the gun out numerous times when uniformed LE roll up on the scene.  I've never been shot by another LEO.

Tactics and training on both sides account for this.

[BobA 1,235]

I’m confused. It says he took the guys gun and ran away with it?

[Zeke 5,504]

1 minute ago, GRIZ said:

I disagree.  I've been the one in plain clothes with the gun out numerous times when uniformed LE roll up on the scene.  I've never been shot by another LEO.

Tactics and training on both sides account for this.

I have no disillusions bout teachers becoming swat. Same as citizens ccw. But if an active shooter enters the classroom, auditorium, gymnasium... better to have a gun then shield students with the body. Active role’s trained.

And coordinated. 2 is 1... 1 is none

 

 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

coincidence is the teacher in georgia going and shooting after blocking students outta his classroom.............coincidence? or other?

[GRIZ 3,369]

46 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I have no disillusions bout teachers becoming swat. Same as citizens ccw. But if an active shooter enters the classroom, auditorium, gymnasium... better to have a gun then shield students with the body. Active role’s trained.

And coordinated. 2 is 1... 1 is none

 

 

I know the NJEA is against teachers being armed.  Fact is there are many schools in rural and suburban areas where it would take some time for a significant police response.  Trump mentioned today providing funding and training from the Feds for this.  He made a point if you just harden the target it makes and someone gets in it makes it just as hard for the good guys to get in the school.

Armed teachers are just another layer of defense.  A SRO would be another.  My concept of a SRO is gathering intelligence to help identify those that may be a problem.  The SRO needs to interact with the students to do this.  It should not be an easy job to give to someone for their last few years before retirement.

Someone suggested identifying the good guys with a baseball cap.  That's not enough.  It's also unreasonable to expect the teachers and cops to be able to recognize one another even in a smaller town.  These things can be worked out though.

[Zeke 5,504]

3 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I know the NJEA is against teachers being armed.  Fact is there are many schools in rural and suburban areas where it would take some time for a significant police response.  Trump mentioned today providing funding and training from the Feds for this.  He made a point if you just harden the target it makes and someone gets in it makes it just as hard for the good guys to get in the school.

Armed teachers are just another layer of defense.  A SRO would be another.  My concept of a SRO is gathering intelligence to help identify those that may be a problem.  The SRO needs to interact with the students to do this.  It should not be an easy job to give to someone for their last few years before retirement.

Someone suggested identifying the good guys with a baseball cap.  That's not enough.  It's also unreasonable to expect the teachers and cops to be able to recognize one another even in a smaller town.  These things can be worked out though.

Agreed! Let’s work through the problem!

[Zeke 5,504]

@GRIZ I’d like to add there are school districts in America that have armed teachers. I’ll find good links.

[AVB-AMG 530]

IMHO, only teachers who are interested in and are willing to undergo intensive training should be allowed to be armed inside any school.  No teacher should be required to be armed if they do not want to be.  This approach, for those teachers who elect to be armed, also requires a practical and tested method of securing of a loaded firearm inside their classroom that is only accessible to that teacher.  Maybe it is some possible form of bio-metric gun safe inside their desk drawer that is placed in and removed on a daily basis, (T.B.D.). 

IMHO, I believe that most teachers in secondary public schools just want to be responsible for teaching their specific discipline to their students and do not want to be the last line of defense between their students and a crazed armed killer.  Therefore, they should not be required to be placed in that position.  I think that many would act heroically, if ever faced with that scenario, but we should not assume or count on that happening.   Their first and foremost role is to teach their students.

I am more in favor of having either current or new LEO's who are trained to serve as SRO's who would be armed and patrolling inside schools in numbers that are appropriate for the size of the school's student population, say one (1) SRO for every 400 students.  The SRO's should meet on a regular basis with the local LEO's so they are known and recognizable to them, in addition to any form of clear attire/uniform that they would wear while on duty patrolling.  These SRO's would also be in a position to observe who the potentially "troubled" students are and coordinate with the school's faculty and administration to ensure that they are fully aware of who these students are and what their options are for getting them the help they need and to prevent a violent outburst.

It is sad that our society has come to this.  For many of us in the baby boom generation, this sort of thing was unimaginable when we were in elementary, junior high and high school, but unfortunately is today's reality....

AVB-AMG

 

[10X 3,296]

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

@GRIZ I’d like to add there are school districts in America that have armed teachers. I’ll find good links.

Like this link?  School district allowing armed teachers

[Lambo2936 297]

2 hours ago, AVB-AMG said:

IMHO, only teachers who are interested in and are willing to undergo intensive training should be allowed to be armed inside any school.  No teacher should be required to be armed if they do not want to be.  This approach, for those teachers who elect to be armed, also requires a practical and tested method of securing of a loaded firearm inside their classroom that is only accessible to that teacher.  Maybe it is some possible form of bio-metric gun safe inside their desk drawer that is placed in and removed on a daily basis, (T.B.D.). 

IMHO, I believe that most teachers in secondary public schools just want to be responsible for teaching their specific discipline to their students and do not want to be the last line of defense between their students and a crazed armed killer.  Therefore, they should not be required to be placed in that position.  I think that many would act heroically, if ever faced with that scenario, but we should not assume or count on that happening.   Their first and foremost role is to teach their students.

I am more in favor of having trained LEO's who are trained to serve as SRO's who would be armed and patrolling inside schools in numbers that are appropriate for the size of the school's student population, say one (1) SRO for every 400 students.  The SRO's should meet on a regular basis with the local LEO's so they are known and recognizable to them, in addition to any form of clear attire/uniform that they would wear while on duty patrolling.  These SRO's would also be in a position to observe who the potentially "troubled" students are and coordinate with to ensure that the school's faculty and administration are fully aware of who these students are and what their options are for getting the help they need and to prevent a violent outburst.

It is sad that our society has come to this.  For many of us in the baby boom generation, this sort of thing was unimaginable when we were in elementary, junior high and high school, but unfortunately is today's reality....

AVB-AMG

I think this is a given. I don't believe any rational gun owner would imply we FORCE teachers with little or no training and who do not WANT to carry, to carry.
In areas like ours, i'd be surprised if more than one or two were willing in an entire school... but, hell, a potential shooter wouldn't know who, how many, or if ANY are armed. That's the beauty of it, just like Concealed Carry... Ya never know who it is or where they are, and thats IF they get past the armed security/officers at the entrance (because there should only be ONE well guarded entry way to any school). When i went to school in Israel the entire school was fenced in with what was probably a 16 or 20' Fence with barbed wire at the top. Only one entry point and it was guarded by two very well trained guards, generally guys who were in one of the elite units of the IDF and have some insane training. Same goes for malls, etc... Never noticed any armed teachers but i'd bet there were some in certain schools. Never heard of bomb threats, shootings, etc. when i was there.. In schools, that is. Kind of funny that as 'dangerous' as Israel is, it seems like its a hell of a lot safer than the US.. That said, contrary to what most people think, they actually have very very strict gun control.

[GRIZ 3,369]

3 hours ago, AVB-AMG said:

IMHO, only teachers who are interested in and are willing to undergo intensive training should be allowed to be armed inside any school.  No teacher should be required to be armed if they do not want to be.  This approach, for those teachers who elect to be armed, also requires a practical and tested method of securing of a loaded firearm inside their classroom that is only accessible to that teacher.  Maybe it is some possible form of bio-metric gun safe inside their desk drawer that is placed in and removed on a daily basis, (T.B.D.). 

IMHO, I believe that most teachers in secondary public schools just want to be responsible for teaching their specific discipline to their students and do not want to be the last line of defense between their students and a crazed armed killer.  Therefore, they should not be required to be placed in that position.  I think that many would act heroically, if ever faced with that scenario, but we should not assume or count on that happening.   Their first and foremost role is to teach their students.

I am more in favor of having trained LEO's who are trained to serve as SRO's who would be armed and patrolling inside schools in numbers that are appropriate for the size of the school's student population, say one (1) SRO for every 400 students.  The SRO's should meet on a regular basis with the local LEO's so they are known and recognizable to them, in addition to any form of clear attire/uniform that they would wear while on duty patrolling.  These SRO's would also be in a position to observe who the potentially "troubled" students are and coordinate with to ensure that the school's faculty and administration are fully aware of who these students are and what their options are for getting the help they need and to prevent a violent outburst.

It is sad that our society has come to this.  For many of us in the baby boom generation, this sort of thing was unimaginable when we were in elementary, junior high and high school, but unfortunately is today's reality....

AVB-AMG

Well AVB, I have to give you credit.  Finally a post of yours I, for the most part,  I'm agreeable.

Armed teachers should be on a voluntary basis.  SROs should be LEOs as they need authority and they would be subject to following required protocols.  They also should be selected from cops would want to do that job.  I know uniforms upset some people.  Maybe wearing a blazer that let's the students and staff know who they are.

White soils so easily.  Ask anyone who was in the Navy or Marines.