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Shane45

Liberal left keeping our schools unsafe

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Posting this in its own thread as it seems timely.

 

Why are we allowing the liberal left to determine the narrative and course of action in protecting our children? We clearly accept armed protection in many facets of our society. We pay men to carry guns to protect pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters being transported from stores to banks as well as deposits. We accept armed guards in banks. We accept armed guards to protect famous people and politicians. We accept high police presence in major events. We accept armed security in jewelry stores. Yet public schools that are clearly suffering from being targeted remain largely unprotected. Why is that? I have had a number of police officers relay stories to me on how they were picking up or dropping off their kids to school in uniform and were in some cases asked, in others told, they were not welcome on school grounds while in uniform and carrying a weapon as it made some staff members uncomfortable. Add all the gun free school zone rhetoric and all the resistance to police and armed security in schools and it becomes clear that the liberal left bias is what is keeping our schools from being properly protected. Why are we tolerating the least qualified group to assess and mitigate the risk to our children? My lawyer doesn’t prescribe me medication and I don’t ask my doctor to do my taxes!

Is it better if our kids are stabbed to death or blown up instead of being shot? Countries like Japan and China have suffered school killing sprees at the hands of evil men with knives that rival the number dead in American school shootings. Many are completely unaware that Columbine was planned as a bombing. Those two perpetrators had planned to bomb the cafeteria at lunch and then detonate a line of explosives out front specifically directed at the police, fire and ems first responders. So that would indicate to me that focusing all this energy on gun control is a complete waste of time and effort. Not to mention that Columbine was perpetrated with pistols, shotguns and a pistol caliber carbine. See something say something? Clearly that isn’t working either! Case after case reveals everyone said something to include to the top Law Enforcement agency in the country! The evidence is already in front of everyone. People and systems will fail. Other people will never trigger the system to begin with! Look up John David LaDue for a case study of a threat that could have easily went undetected if it weren’t for a timely glance out of a window.

Is arming teachers and faculty the answer? In my opinion it is not. To me it is a half measure. I believe that people should have the right to defend themselves. However, armed faculty are not going to have a duty to run towards the sound of gunfire! There may be a few that think that way but I don’t think that will be the vast majority. Why are we exploring half measures instead of embracing the fact that the only way to protect unarmed people is with armed people assigned to their protection! This is evident everywhere else in our society. I would think that every town in America has the ability to add to its police force and assign them to their schools. This might actually help with the drug problems that seem to be affecting just about every school in America as well. But Im not talking about adding 1 person for 3700 students. Clearly no risk and response analysis went on there! But this would cost money. Is that an issue? Are we going to spend money to protect money and valuables but we as a society are unwilling to spend money to protect children? I don’t think that’s the case. My conclusion is that we have fallen short of putting the correct response in place because we cant get past hurting the feelings of the liberal left that have infested the school systems. I don’t want to hear their cries about creating a police state in schools. I don’t want to hear one more stupid plan to have all the kids throw books or soup cans at an assailant! I don’t want to hear about teachers having a session in school with nerf guns to work out their own strategies. I hate to inform the faculty but the fact of the matter is that every kid with an X-Box has more tactical prowess than the vast majority of teachers at any school. I want to hear from experts that have a proven track record of providing actual security. Does it sit right with everyone that all of congress operates in an armed, protected environment but it’s unthinkable by many of these politicians to provide any armed security for our children? In my opinion, this is why NOTHING has changed. The evidence is overwhelming that banning anything never solves anything or actually protects anyone. Banning only insures that the bad guys are better armed than the law abiding good guys. Lets not forget that a good guy with an AR15 stopped the church shooter in Texas. You CAN’T ban evil determination. I will be just as heartbroken for every child killed by a gun, a bomb, a knife, a sword, or a gallon of gas. I want them protected from as many threats as possible with someone capable of providing that protection. The time for allowing the liberal left to determine the protection for everyone’s children needs to end! We need to counter the bleating of the liberal left with a solid loud voice of logic, reason and something that will certainly be more effective. The much vilified NRA is the only organization Im aware of that actually studied the security issue and submitted professionally derived plans against such tragedies. Im not aware of any effort put forth by organizations like the Brady Campaign or any similar organization.

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I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly. I don't understand why your average corporate campus has far more security than a comparably sized school district. We have really let the gun control side hijack the gun topic from ALL angles - school security is just one. In all fairness though, I think that's because the mainstream media is so obviously aligned with the gun control side... the media won't even publish other viewpoints. That's a real problem!

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9 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly. I don't understand why your average corporate campus has far more security than a comparably sized school district.

Now how would that help to further the agenda of repealing the 2A and confiscating all guns from the citizens?

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The only way to protect existing schools is to have armed people, most likely teachers, in the school.  It is really that simple.  Think of the average school in America which is a one story building (maybe two) with a very large foot print on a wide open area of land with many entrances and exits and lot of windows.  It would be almost impossible and extremely costly to harden such a facility, thus defensive weapons are the only practical and cost effective means to defend such a structure.  Think how screwed up it would be to have metal detectors at entrances.  How long would it take to funnel all the students into buildings in the morning?  Even if you could do that you would still need many fire exits that could be instantly opened from the inside in an emergency.  A group of two of more bad actors only need one person in the building to open one of those doors to let other bad actors in with guns or other weapons.  Are they also going to brick over all the windows or replace them all with bullet proof glass?

Let's not forget technology, not very hard to get a drone (yea kids use them) and just fly a gun in to campus as well.

Perhaps if you were to build a new school from scratch it could be hardened, but do we really want kids going to schools inside prisons.  Oh and while we are at it, let's remember that even in high security prisons weapons do seem to find their way into the buildings.  These liberals are bat shit crazy wanting to make our schools Free Kill Zones with no one having a gun to protect the kids.

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Putting police in the schools is not the answer. You want armed guards carrying concealed that I can live with. I think allowing teachers to be armed is more than enough.

We are scared of the boogey man. I asked on another thread how many mass school murders were there in 2016 and 2017? Mass murder defined as 2 or more killed not including perpetrator.

There were 2 in 2017. In California A husband killed his wife and a student was killed by a stray bullet. The other in Aztec, NM a former student killed 2. Again the FBI had prior knowledge of his intent and did nothing. In 2016 there were exactly 0 mass school murders. This is right there with the average since the 2004. We average 1.5 mass school murders a year. Yes this year we already had 2 and 19 were killed in those 2. In 2016 and 2017 3 students were killed in mass school murder attempts. The number of children who die in bathtubs per year averages 87.


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cap14k, why what is your reasoning behind not putting police in schools?

Its not being scared of the boogey man. Its eliminating the one eyed jacks in a room full of blind people scenario.

Armed teachers is NOT enough. You expect a teach who is armed is going to leave their classroom full of kids unprotected to go seek an active shooter?

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cap14k, why what is your reasoning behind not putting police in schools? Its not being scared of the boogey man. Its eliminating the one eyed jacks in a room full of blind people scenario.

Armed teachers is NOT enough. You expect a teach who is armed is going to leave their classroom full of kids unprotected to go seek an active shooter?

 

 

I am sick of the expansion of the police state. When we live in fear evil has already won.  

 

 

Not Enough for what? More kids die in a bathtub. Should we also send the kids to school wearing flak jackets?

 

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There was just an incident at my kids middle school. Rumor mill said 7th grade girl had bullets and a hitlist. The truth was there was no weapons and the list was in her head. She made a threat of "I'm going to kill you to two boys who were picking on her daily". How many of us didn't say the same words as kids? Ultimately she was suspended from school. The reasoning the list in her head. So now we have thought police in schools. 1984 is here.

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34 minutes ago, Shane45 said:

Armed teachers is NOT enough. You expect a teach who is armed is going to leave their classroom full of kids unprotected to go seek an active shooter?

I don't think that is anyone's intent. No one wants a teacher to go on the hunt. 

But a teacher could very well get the students in the back of the room, kill the lights, lock the door and if a bad guy comes in, give him something to think about. Right now a classroom is a shooting gallery.

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I dont see it as an expansion. I see it as being retasked with things that matter. Unrelated to the topic at hand, im sick of the overflowing drugs in schools so i see it as a potential dual benefit. But your oversimplification of the problem and contrasting accidents indicates to me that you dont believe there is an actual problem with schools being targeted. Should we pull all USSS from the capital? Theres only been a handful of incidents over the years.

Handyman, my comments are directed at Cap who indicated that armed teachers was enough of a solution. " I think allowing teachers to be armed is more than enough."

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13 minutes ago, Handyman said:

I don't think that is anyone's intent. No one wants a teacher to go on the hunt. 

But a teacher could very well get the students in the back of the room, kill the lights, lock the door and if a bad guy comes in, give him something to think about. Right now a classroom is a shooting gallery.

That’s the role I envision with armed teachers. In addition to increased police presence. People really need to inform themselves about use of deadly force, and civilian defensive firearms use. You do not carry a gun, and become swat mall ninga alpha level. But why limit layers of defense? 

And local Pd , and assigned  school Pd should instruct, and train with these teachers on a regular basis.

Level of deterrence is designated by the level of threat.

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Guys, if it gets to the point where an armed teacher actually has to intervene, then odds are we've failed already, as that means that PREVENTION has failed, and odds are a few die (at least) until an armed teacher gets involved.

What we need to do is PREVENT this shit from happening altogether, via EFFICIENT use of the NICS system, POLICE doing their damn jobs, and CIVILIANS reporting suspicious activity (like the kid building pipe bombs in your neighbors garage).

The act of placing armed teachers and guards at schools is, in my opinion, entirely a preventative measure. If it gets to the point where intervention is needed, odds are at least a few will die before the person is stopped.

 

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Lambo, I dont particularly disagree with you. However, any real preventative solution is a looong looong ways off if even ever achievable due to the liberal left/progressives needing to protect every snowflake at the expense of everyone else's kids. So in that interim, intervention is the only real solution available. Indeed as Zeke has alluded too, just about every effective security program I have ever been involved in is a layered approach. 

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@Lambo2936 @Shane45

the layers of the onion. It’s the same principle as everyday citizens carry. 

To @Lambo2936 point. It is becoming known that “ people are seeing something and saying something “ and it is...inefficient...

Why do I have a generator and candles? Because the power may go out..

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