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I hope you're paying more attention to what you have to read for your classes at FLETC.

 

I actually do...

 

Being nobody stated anything about exemptions prior to my post, and the fact you specifically stated “firearm...” opposed to “semi-auto...” or mentioned anything about exemptions (your post was quoted, if you need to look back).

 

Hell, I even said that I’m out of state with just an iPhone, so not really in a position to research proposed legislation.

 

Maybe you should double check your posts, as that post of yours I quoted put in more confusion to this thread than anything else (and there was posts early on talking about paying $50 to get a 60 round drum). I am glad there are members that actually read the proposed legislation, and clarified your misgivings. I think you’d be better off with that then worrying about my career path.

 

In regards to the Henry 1860 copies being not common... how about 1866/1892 copies? Depending on barrel length, you can go over 10 rounds. Was also pointed out the KSG, as you wrongly used “firearms” in that post. The Air-Service M1903 magazines go over 15, and were legal prior to this stuff... as well as Mauser 98s with Trench Magazines.

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6 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

So I guess this makes Henry Rifles (excluding .22lr's) with a capacity over 10 rounds illegal.

Same for the Keltec KSG pump shotgun (14 round capacity).

Incorrect..read the above posts. The proposed bill applies to Semi-auto not pumps or LA.

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34 minutes ago, 9X19 said:

Incorrect..read the above posts. The proposed bill applies to Semi-auto not pumps or LA.

 

I hope that's correct.

Would be nice if it was more explicit, but I don't think legislators are concerned with "extra" guns being included.

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13 hours ago, voyager9 said:

So the amendment also now allows modification of existing rounds down to 10. This was obviously added to try to avoid litigation and injunctions. Does it?  Does that change invalidate a CA-type lawsuit?

I don’t think so. It’d be pretty easy to show a person had to spend x dollars per magazine to have them converted. For example a competition shooter may have 10 or more magazines to convert at $15 a piece so he had to spend $150 plus tax just to maintain legal status of a previously legal and functioning pistol in the state of NJ. To me that is nearly as bad as forcing them to buy factory 10 round magazines which is what the original bill required. 

To me that is legislation that puts excessive burden on the usage of a right. 

JMHO

-Jim

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1 hour ago, JimB1 said:

I don’t think so. It’d be pretty easy to show a person had to spend x dollars per magazine to have them converted. For example a competition shooter may have 10 or more magazines to convert at $15 a piece so he had to spend $150 plus tax just to maintain legal status of a previously legal and functioning pistol in the state of NJ. To me that is nearly as bad as forcing them to buy factory 10 round magazines which is what the original bill required. 

To me that is legislation that puts excessive burden on the usage of a right. 

JMHO

-Jim

It's pretty lousy if that goes through.  Since there are lots of 15 round mags, especially from handguns, that are 100% ok right now, it lets them be modified now, not destroyed or shipped away. Lots of AR mags are ruined from initial reduction - so are donefor.

But you're right, it's an excessive burden regardless of if it is a forced purchase of new ones, or a forced modification.  

Wonder if a Nappen, or even just a regular "Lionel Hutz" lawyer could create a class action suit on behalf of people forced to incur major costs to avoid becoming felons. 

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11 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

So I guess this makes Henry Rifles (excluding .22lr's) with a capacity over 10 rounds illegal.

Same for the Keltec KSG pump shotgun (14 round capacity).

The Keltec has a seven round tubular magazine.   Ok, it has two of them, but that’s still different than having a 14 round magazine. I’m sure the state would still try to jam the owner up for a mag limit violation, though. 

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2 hours ago, JimB1 said:

I don’t think so. It’d be pretty easy to show a person had to spend x dollars per magazine to have them converted. For example a competition shooter may have 10 or more magazines to convert at $15 a piece so he had to spend $150 plus tax just to maintain legal status of a previously legal and functioning pistol in the state of NJ. To me that is nearly as bad as forcing them to buy factory 10 round magazines which is what the original bill required. 

To me that is legislation that puts excessive burden on the usage of a right. 

JMHO

-Jim

New C-Products 10-round AR mags are $13 or less. (Coincidentally, pMags are $13.25.) I suspect they more reliable than blocked mags. I know there is a principle involved -- but how much is your time worth? There are lots of 10-round pistol mags around from the 10-year AWB.

Rather than than modify or (horror) destroy them or turn them in, I'm inclined to send any naughty parts (or firearms) that I might have off to vacation in America, at least until President Trump or President Pence appoints enough SC justices to rule that standard capacity mags (and ARs) are, as Scalia wrote, in "common use for lawful purposes".

(incidentally, if there is a class-action lawsuit against the state, I'm in for a couple of bucks.)

shutterstock_139263104.jpg

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I don’t think so. It’d be pretty easy to show a person had to spend x dollars per magazine to have them converted. For example a competition shooter may have 10 or more magazines to convert at $15 a piece so he had to spend $150 plus tax just to maintain legal status of a previously legal and functioning pistol in the state of NJ. To me that is nearly as bad as forcing them to buy factory 10 round magazines which is what the original bill required. 

To me that is legislation that puts excessive burden on the usage of a right. 

JMHO

-Jim

 

I’ve personally spent well over $1,000 on 15 rounders... whether factory (usually a few dollars more than 17 rounders) or modified (have to pay for the work). I even bought a .40 M&P Pro specifically because the magazines hold 15. That number also doesn’t include the $450 FBI 10mm 15 round magazine...

 

If someone really wanted to push it, I’m sure it could be overturned easily with receipts of costs. You force people to spend more, then make them go with a lower capacity, and make those magazines, that really have no resale, illegal.

 

The Keltec has a seven round tubular magazine.   Ok, it has two of them, but that’s still different than having a 14 round magazine. I’m sure the state would still try to jam the owner up for a mag limit violation, though.

 

Or decide they will include Mini-Shells as the count of capacity. Then, you are down for two counts.

 

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On 26/03/2018 at 9:18 PM, GRIZ said:

I believe the amendments everyone is talking about are those amending 2C39-1.  These amendments are those underlined parts in the copy of the bill on the link I gave above.

There is registration and $50 fee for a firearm WITH A FIXED MAGAZINE HOLDING MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS.  Can't think of any but there is probably something out there.  It also wouldn't surprise me if the NJ legislature outlawed something that doesn't exist.

This does not apply to your Glock, SIG, Beretta, AR, AK, or anything with a detachable magazine.

What about a marlin model 60?  However i read in the original bill that tube fed rifles were exempt from the 10 round limit restriction.

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13 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

I actually do...

 

Being nobody stated anything about exemptions prior to my post, and the fact you specifically stated “firearm...” opposed to “semi-auto...” or mentioned anything about exemptions (your post was quoted, if you need to look back).

 

Hell, I even said that I’m out of state with just an iPhone, so not really in a position to research proposed legislation.

 

Maybe you should double check your posts, as that post of yours I quoted put in more confusion to this thread than anything else (and there was posts early on talking about paying $50 to get a 60 round drum). I am glad there are members that actually read the proposed legislation, and clarified your misgivings. I think you’d be better off with that then worrying about my career path.

 

In regards to the Henry 1860 copies being not common... how about 1866/1892 copies? Depending on barrel length, you can go over 10 rounds. Was also pointed out the KSG, as you wrongly used “firearms” in that post. The Air-Service M1903 magazines go over 15, and were legal prior to this stuff... as well as Mauser 98s with Trench Magazines.

The thread started out talking about "exceptions".

There are links to the legislation before your post.  They are accessible on an iphone.

Any confusion is the fault of a poorly worded law and NJ.com.

My misgivings?  You were the one saying you weren't going to register your rifles.  I'm not worrying about your career path. That's your problem.

Lever actions holding more than 10 rds are not that common.  Extended 03 and Mauser magazines are even less common.

Enjoy your time at FLETC.  I'm sure you're impressing your instructors with your vast knowledge.  You can go to Pam's at the end of the day and celebrate.

 

7 minutes ago, father-of-three said:

What about a marlin model 60?  However i read in the original bill that tube fed rifles were exempt from the 10 round limit restriction.

Tube fed 22 rim fires are exempt.  Specifically stated so in the bill.

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So I guess this makes Henry Rifles (excluding .22lr's) with a capacity over 10 rounds illegal.
Same for the Keltec KSG pump shotgun (14 round capacity).
It has been stated over and over again in this thread.

THIS ONLY APPLIES TO MAGAZINES THAT CAN FEED A SEMI-AUTO. LEVER ACTION, PUMP ACTION, BOLT ACTION GUNS ARE NOT EFFECTED UNLESS THE SAME MAGAZINE CAN BE USED IN A SEMI-AUTO.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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lol this is seriously what drives me crazy about laws in this state. We do our best to provide facts and sources and people still misinterpret them. I don't see what the hangup is over the .22LR rifle exception, how many of you honestly own one? 

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3 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

lol this is seriously what drives me crazy about laws in this state. We do our best to provide facts and sources and people still misinterpret them. I don't see what the hangup is over the .22LR rifle exception, how many of you honestly own one? 

It’s because people panic. Panic and fear are mind killers. 

And you can’t fix stupid 

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The game of telephone drives me crazy, read the fucking legislation and be informed. .22LR pistols and AR's are not exempted so honestly, are you going to go out and buy a rifle that you aren't particularly interested in just to be the exemption? If you really want to be exempt from these laws, apply for an FFL. If you have a decent safe already that the ATF would approve in an inspection, the $150 license and $500 SOT (cheaper than most guns restricted by these laws) you can then be exempt from all of this commie bullshit if you're really that concerned AND you can have NFA items without putting them in purgatory. Otherwise read the laws, understand them and hope that ANJRPC and the NRA can do something for us.

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40 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

The game of telephone drives me crazy, read the fucking legislation and be informed. .22LR pistols and AR's are not exempted so honestly, are you going to go out and buy a rifle that you aren't particularly interested in just to be the exemption? If you really want to be exempt from these laws, apply for an FFL. If you have a decent safe already that the ATF would approve in an inspection, the $150 license and $500 SOT (cheaper than most guns restricted by these laws) you can then be exempt from all of this commie bullshit if you're really that concerned AND you can have NFA items without putting them in purgatory. Otherwise read the laws, understand them and hope that ANJRPC and the NRA can do something for us.

Perhaps you should read the legislation. What laws in particular do you think we are exempt from? You would be really surprised. Yes, I can have an inventory of high capacity magazines, any capacity in my shop for sale outside of NJ. But no, I can't take them to the range and use them in the next steel match. I can have as many rifles, shop inventory, for sale with adjustable stocks, folding stocks, flash suppressors etc., but the only thing I can do with them is sell them outside of NJ. I can even deal in NFA stuff if I want and have suppressors and stuff like that for sale in my shop, but not to be sold to anyone in this state and not for me to personally use.  I can't take any "evil stuff" as determined by NJ to the range and have some fun. If I want to transfer a pistol to my private collection I need a pistol permit just like you do. Frankly, there is only one law we are exempt from and that is based on how your FFL license is worded. If you are not incorporated and are a sole proprietor of your business and your license lists your name first, then and only then are you exempt from doing a NICS check on yourself if you want to transfer a gun to your own collection. That's precisely why my LLC, Plumsted Arms, is not on my license, my name and DBA are on the license. 

We are not exempt from any NJ laws the moment I carry a firearm outside of my shop and use it for personal use. At least that's what I get out of the last 20 or so times I read the stupid laws. Regardless I would not want to be stopped on the road with a 20 round magazine and try to explain to the police officer. Oh officer don't worry it's ok, I am an FFL. LOL

Oh and for those that think being an FFL allows you to CC in this state, sorry wrong again. 

 

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15 minutes ago, nuclearheli said:

Perhaps you should read the legislation. What laws in particular do you think we are exempt from? You would be really surprised. Yes, I can have an inventory of high capacity magazines, any capacity in my shop for sale outside of NJ. But no, I can't take them to the range and use them in the next steel match. I can have as many rifles, shop inventory, for sale with adjustable stocks, folding stocks, flash suppressors etc., but the only thing I can do with them is sell them outside of NJ. I can even deal in NFA stuff if I want and have suppressors and stuff like that for sale in my shop, but not to be sold to anyone in this state and not for me to personally use.  I can't take any "evil stuff" as determined by NJ to the range and have some fun. If I want to transfer a pistol to my private collection I need a pistol permit just like you do. Frankly, there is only one law we are exempt from and that is based on how your FFL license is worded. If you are not incorporated and are a sole proprietor of your business and your license lists your name first, then and only then are you exempt from doing a NICS check on yourself if you want to transfer a gun to your own collection. That's precisely why my LLC, Plumsted Arms, is not on my license, my name and DBA are on the license. 

We are not exempt from any NJ laws the moment I carry a firearm outside of my shop and use it for personal use. At least that's what I get out of the last 20 or so times I read the stupid laws. Regardless I would not want to be stopped on the road with a 20 round magazine and try to explain to the police officer. Oh officer don't worry it's ok, I am an FFL. LOL

Oh and for those that think being an FFL allows you to CC in this state, sorry wrong again. 

 

Say you are a Type 07 FFL, which is what many journalists in the industry have so they can get RMA's from manufacturers to test and publish content on products from manufacturers without going through a transfer and NICS process everytime they receive a product. I know someone in Illinois with this exact permit and illinois has restrictions on NFA items as well but he has them and uses them regularly to publish his content, yes there are other working parts to this like having a licensed and insured business to go with it, but it's still an exemption. 

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1 hour ago, JR88USMC said:

I don't see what the hangup is over the .22LR rifle exception, how many of you honestly own one? 

I have one, it’s the old Marlin Glenfield Model 60. I had it since 1978 before Florio and his tribe of azz clowns & thieves took over. My Marlin was the original outlaw 22 because it had the 17 round tube. The mod to make it NJ compliant was to get a cheap copper pipe/tube cutter and remove the cutting wheel and place a washer in place of the cutting wheel. Then measure off the 15 rounds and run the cutter (with washer) around the tube mag to indent the brass so you can’t go past the 15th round. Of course I fucked my tube up and now it only takes 13 so good enough for NJ.  I though everyone on this forum had a 22 but then again I’m old enough to remember shooting galleries at the NJ Shore Boardwalks. Now that the state as gone full retard it’s a wonder they still allow the squirt gun galleries on the boardwalk..

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1 hour ago, JR88USMC said:

Say you are a Type 07 FFL, which is what many journalists in the industry have so they can get RMA's from manufacturers to test and publish content on products from manufacturers without going through a transfer and NICS process everytime they receive a product. I know someone in Illinois with this exact permit and illinois has restrictions on NFA items as well but he has them and uses them regularly to publish his content, yes there are other working parts to this like having a licensed and insured business to go with it, but it's still an exemption. 

Type 07 is a manufacturer's license and I am not sure the requirements to receive a firearm are any different. But I have no experience with an 07 license so I can't accurately comment on your post. In NJ there are (as of Nov 2017) 394 FFL's of all types, and out of 394 there are 27 07 type licenses. 

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2 hours ago, FXDX said:

I though everyone on this forum had a 22 but then again I’m old enough to remember shooting galleries at the NJ Shore Boardwalks. Now that the state as gone full retard it’s a wonder they still allow the squirt gun galleries on the boardwalk..

I remember that, too!

Shooting galleries on the boardwalks!

Drunks shooting in the shooting galleries!

But there were never any mass shootings!

(How do people teach their kids to shoot without a couple of .22s? Knowing how to change a flat tire, how to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission and learning how to shoot were basic skill requirements before moving out of this household.)

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51 minutes ago, nuclearheli said:

Type 07 is a manufacturer's license and I am not sure the requirements to receive a firearm are any different. But I have no experience with an 07 license so I can't accurately comment on your post. In NJ there are (as of Nov 2017) 394 FFL's of all types, and out of 394 there are 27 07 type licenses. 

correct and from what he's told me, that's how he gets around not being allowed to have NFA items in illinois and because he isn't selling them, either using them for business purposes such as his website that's how he got it. Typically he gets an RMA from a manufacturer to test a gun out for 90 days or so but more often than not, the manufacturers will tell him to keep what they send him and use it as a write off.

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4 hours ago, JR88USMC said:

lol this is seriously what drives me crazy about laws in this state. We do our best to provide facts and sources and people still misinterpret them. I don't see what the hangup is over the .22LR rifle exception, how many of you honestly own one? 

I have a Marlin Model 60 and another .22lr rifle.

Taught my kids to shoot with them (and still enjoy shooting them)

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14 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

 

I hope that's correct.

Would be nice if it was more explicit, but I don't think legislators are concerned with "extra" guns being included.

Well, the bill says this:

"y.    "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.  The term shall not include an attached tubular device which is capable of holding only .22 caliber rimfire ammunition."

I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but the language seems pretty clear.

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45 minutes ago, b47356 said:

Well, the bill says this:

"y.    "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.  The term shall not include an attached tubular device which is capable of holding only .22 caliber rimfire ammunition."

I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but the language seems pretty clear.

+1.

There was a variant on an earlier page with a clause that didnt invoke SA firearms as definitely.  I know that was my cause of confusion before.  it left a feeding device as the language, not magazine, and excluded SA.  Maybe its OBE, maybe it was an error, maybe I misread as did others.  

I no longer have an issue; it was clarified.  Hopefully others see it the same way, FWIW...

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...


Since Tapatalk only puts the second half of the quote, I do want to touch on the first half specifically. If a moderator wants to remove this, I ask that GRIZ’s post (#160) be removed so that there is no question about legality on a public forum.

First, this thread started out talking about a $50 fee for magazines over 10 rounds... you can scroll back and see, just like looking back and seeing your post specifically stated “firearms” opposed to “semi-auto rifles.” Last time I checked, lever action rifles are considered firearms (will drop the specifics on this, even though CAS is somewhat popular). But every time I’ve ever called you out on your crap, you always decide to push fault/attention elsewhere. Be a man and state you were wrong... which lead to as much misconception that your post did. Myself not wanting to read legislation on an iPhone doesn’t change your post at all...

Second, DO NOT imply what I’m doing in regards to any impending law/registration. I don’t need to register anything that is not within the borders of NJ (if it comes down to it, MY post described exactly what I will do, none of which is illegal per 2C, even if the legislation being discussed is passed)... so keep a description of what I’m doing if this legislation passes out of your posts.

In regards to FLETC, I don’t need to impress anyone. It is a training center, not a popularity contest. If there are instructors there, they did enough through their careers to have my respect. Same goes for all Federal personnel (sworn or not) I’ve interacted with through my application. For people on NJGF, respect is earned... and I respect, even call some friends, quite a few people on here. Sorry, but I think it is very apparent you aren’t in that group. I don’t wish you any bad (I don’t do that to anyone, especially people I don’t know)... but I’ve seen enough discrepancies with your posts that I really couldn’t care less about you. If that isn’t clear enough, you can send me a message about it.

In regards to Pam’s, I’ve heard about it from a few TSA, SS, and VA guys during CBP interviews. By the time I noticed your post, I was already in SC, so couldn’t stop. I appreciate your recommendation, but I think a dinner in Georgia is a little far from FLETC in Artesia, NM (there are multiple FLETCs, not just Glynco).

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