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4 New Proposed Laws, the Crazy doesn't Sleep in Trenton

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2 hours ago, siderman said:

You're kinda new here so maybe you havent seen this template of crazy from 2013 after the sandy hook school shooting. They couldnt make the shit up fast enough and now are blowing the dust off these.....http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.anjrpc.org/resource/resmgr/ds-email/gun_control_list_03-22-13.pdf  warning- there are 70+...

Yes, I'm new, but back in 2013, did they have hysterical teenagers marching in cities across the country, and did NJ have dickhead Murphy ready to sign ANYTHING?

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3 hours ago, vjf915 said:

Did you bother looking up what 1911's weigh?  Your average full size 1911 will weigh ~40oz depending on materials.

Also, that weight restriction was there before. So...

Did you bother to look up the law as it stands and what it will change to? Nope. From one smarmy A-Hole to another, if you're going to be a jerk, at least know what you're talking about. We're going from being allowed one "feature" to none, therefore any handgun that accepts a detachable magazine over 50oz will be banned. Desert Eagle off the top of my head.

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1 hour ago, PK90 said:

Which really doesn't mean anything as half of all the permitted guns have left the State or have been passed down.

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk
 

and people moving in with their previously owned handguns do not need to report or register those with anyone

 

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2 hours ago, MartyZ said:

All they need to do is look at sales figures throughout the last 10 years or so just to get a small idea of how many 1911s are out there. That number alone, which is a small fraction of the actual amount in circulation, would be more than enough to prove "common use"

 

2 hours ago, Zeke said:

Any handgun purchase of a nj residents is on file with NJSP since the permit to purchase law went into effect.

I know these threads can get mixed up, I was referencing ARs (or all SA) A3697. There is no record of sales numbers in NJ for these except for the FFL log ins. so how do they account for how many there are and being classified as "common"? And the answer is......

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1 minute ago, siderman said:

 

I know these threads can get mixed up, I was referencing ARs (or all SA) A3697. There is no record of sales numbers in NJ for these except for the FFL log ins. so how do they account for how many there are and being classified as "common"? And the answer is......

Sales.

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1 minute ago, siderman said:

 

I know these threads can get mixed up, I was referencing ARs (or all SA) A3697. There is no record of sales numbers in NJ for these except for the FFL log ins. so how do they account for how many there are and being classified as "common"? And the answer is......

i'm pretty sure ATF has details on total manufactured and total sold, thru manufacturer and FFL logs. It not common in NJ, it's common in the USA.

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10 minutes ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

If they are willing to hear the case


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No. This is already precedent. Ergo common use has all ready been used in rulings. 

The part that should piss you off, they know it’s unconstitutional. They are seeing if they can get away with it. Or if we will fight it.

Think about that for a minute...

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It looks like their plan is to pass as many unconstitutional laws as fast as possible to make it extremely difficult for 2A support groups to be able to afford to challenge them all.  The scorched earth element of the plan is that it is clogging every level of the court system with cases challenging the constitutional validity of these new laws, in turn, any reversals are going to take decades to go into effect if they were to ever come at all.   

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20 minutes ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

If they are willing to hear the case


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Maybe after Kennedy goes, but I think we're going to need one of the progressives to croak soon enough to get a replacement in before next election. 

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They might as well just stop beating around the bush and make one law that completely outlaws all guns in NJ.. since that’s what they’re aiming for. Unbelievable. To think that Murphy and his liberals have only been in charge for 2 months.. going to be a longgg next few years for us. No guns, but at least we’ll have a sanctuary state. Remember, “Diversity is our strength”. ......

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33 minutes ago, NJ_DD said:

They might as well just stop beating around the bush and make one law that completely outlaws all guns in NJ.. since that’s what they’re aiming for. Unbelievable. To think that Murphy and his liberals have only been in charge for 2 months.. going to be a longgg next few years for us. No guns, but at least we’ll have a sanctuary state. Remember, “Diversity is our strength”. ......

You might recall that is the first thing they did way back when. All firearms are banned in New Jersey. Everything you are permitted to do is by exception. When it comes to firearms in NJ, 'violating the law' doesn't mean the state proving you did. It means you proving you met one of the exceptions to not violate the law.

What they're doing now is modifying or removing the exceptions.

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I know these threads can get mixed up, I was referencing ARs (or all SA) A3697. There is no record of sales numbers in NJ for these except for the FFL log ins. so how do they account for how many there are and being classified as "common"? And the answer is......
I don't believe that the ATF has access to that level of data. Numbers manufactured- yes.

When they trace a specific firearm, they call the manufacturer who refers them to the distributor who tells them the dealer who tells them the end sale target.

They'll be able to get the number of NICS checks by state and what general type(hand gun, long gun, other or multiple) but specific sales to end users aren't filed with them unless one person buys more than 1 handgun in a 5 day period or it's a machine gun, sbr or similar form 4 weapon. ( these won't happen in NJ)
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7 hours ago, Shawnmoore81 said:

38388517366338742ed43c5610051a35.jpg

There is an area of pennsville Nj that’s actually Delaware....... maybe a settlement camp


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The current legislative thrust is (historically) unusual. Not unexpected, but unusual. Over the years, New Jersey has generally been has been at the leading edge of new gun control laws.

Until now.

Suggest visiting the California and New York boards and seeing how they have been dealing with this for the last few years. (IIRC, most AR pistol grips are fastened in place with a single 3/16" Allen screw.) Need to read whatever NJ actually passes and read the NJSP interpretation of whatever they pass.

Most features that they hope to ban -- and have banned in NY and CA -- seem to fit under Scalia's "common use for lawful purposes". IMO as a non-lawyer (but English speaker), most of the 8 or 10 anti-2A states have stepped well beyond Heller, McDonald and Caetano. But it could take a few years for the entire SC to get there.

Sessions seems to be a 2A guy.

Maybe this should also be approached as a Civil Rights issue -- petitioning the DOJ to come in on our side.

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What's crazier to me is that not once have they taken the time to even sit down with a Pro-2A group or organization in this state.

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pistol permits are to purchase, not to possess.  so they're effectively useless to tell someone who owns what.  just because I bought something at some point means I still own it, and the process of SELLING it to a dealer does NOT require any paperwork be reported to the state.

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pistol permits are to purchase, not to possess.  so they're effectively useless to tell someone who owns what.  just because I bought something at some point means I still own it, and the process of SELLING it to a dealer does NOT require any paperwork be reported to the state.


Well if you sold it to an FLL in NJ it would get reported to the state police when they resell it to a person in NJ via their P2P. However, if you sold I to an out of state FFL NJ would have no clue.

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5 minutes ago, Howard said:

 


Well if you sold it to an FLL in NJ it would get reported to the state police when they resell it to a person in NJ via their P2P. However, if you sold I to an out of state FFL NJ would have no clue.

 

Agree

 

10 minutes ago, sota said:

pistol permits are to purchase, not to possess.  so they're effectively useless to tell someone who owns what.  just because I bought something at some point means I still own it, and the process of SELLING it to a dealer does NOT require any paperwork be reported to the state.

It’s about our possession here. Unless you moved here with those possessions.

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

There is a method to do just that, and they should try it.  I beg them to.....  it'll never pass.

 

Article V - have another convention.....  I believe it is a 2/3 majority that is needed.  

2/3 of the House and Senate.

Then 3/4 of state legislatures.  (Or 38 states.)

Quote

 

Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the federal Constitution may be altered. Twenty-seven amendments have been added (appended as codicils) to the Constitution.

Amendment proposals may be adopted and sent to the states for ratification by either:

All thirty-three amendment proposals that have been sent to the states for ratification since the establishment of the Constitution have come into being via the Congress. State legislatures have however, at various times, used their power to apply for a national convention in order to pressure Congress into proposing a desired amendment. For example, the movement to amend the Constitution to provide for the direct election of senators began to see such proposals regularly pass the House of Representatives only to die in the Senate from the early 1890s onward. As time went by, more and more state legislatures adopted resolutions demanding that a convention be called, thus pressuring the Senate to finally relent and approve what later became the Seventeenth Amendment for fear that such a convention—if permitted to assemble—might stray to include issues above and beyond just the direct election of senators.

To become an operative part of the Constitution, an amendment, whether proposed by Congress or a national constitutional convention, must be ratified by either:

  • The legislatures of three-fourths (at present 38) of the states; or
  • State ratifying conventions in three-fourths (at present 38) of the states.

Congress has specified the state legislature ratification method for all but one amendment. The ratifying convention method was used for the Twenty-first Amendment, which became part of the Constitution in 1933.

Since the turn of the 20th century, amendment proposals sent to the states for ratification have generally contained a seven-year ratification deadline, either in the body of the amendment or in the resolving clause of the joint resolution proposing it. The Constitution does not expressly provide for a deadline on the state legislatures' or state ratifying conventions' consideration of proposed amendments. In Dillon v. Gloss (1921), the Supreme Court affirmed that Congress—if it so desires—could provide a deadline for ratification. An amendment with an attached deadline that is not ratified by the required number of states within the set time period is considered inoperative and rendered moot.

An amendment becomes operative as soon as it reaches the three-fourths of the states threshold. Then, once certified by the Archivist of the United States, it officially takes its place as an article of the Constitution.

 

I hope to see them run on repealing the Second Amendment in 2018. (That, and an open door immigration policy.)

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1 hour ago, Bob2222 said:

2/3 of the House and Senate.

Then 3/4 of state legislatures.  (Or 38 states.)

I hope to see them run on repealing the Second Amendment in 2018. (That, and an open door immigration policy.)

:drinks:

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