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Mreed731

First AR puchase advice, Sig M400 or Stag

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Have to agree with DTtuner above. For a first AR, there really is a lot to be said about getting a pre-built, tested and proven rifle.

Stag, Sig, S&W, Ruger, Colt all make rifles that will fit your needs just fine; especially if you're looking for a minute-of-man, SD/HD gun.

At the very least, a pre-built upper like the Troy that is mentioned to be thrown on a lower that you build yourself.

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42 minutes ago, DTtuner said:

I'm going to disagree with most folks here.
Buy a factory built gun.
You get a LIFETIME warranty (SIG, Ruger, Stag), in most cases transferavble to your next of kin.
These days factory built guns are only slightly more money than building a franken-AR on your own.
Also, beware the "Experts" on the internet. They will convince you the rifle will explode in your hands unless you get Hyper-Platinum-nitride-titanium coatings with the cold treatments and ceracoatings... all bullshit. 
Akin to getting your car tires filled with Nitrogen. 
There's one born every minute...

"Build your Own" - for the ultra-low budget.
Back when I bought my first AR, I took advice of people saying to build it on my own.
Sure, it was the cheapest route... but also resulted in a sub-par AR I wasn't happy with, not to mention it was a multi-week pain in the ass and required spending more on tools, etc. 
Then there's always the chance you slip or make a mistake and scratch/ding the rifle in process.
Buying factory means no headaches, and hitting the range right from the gun shop.

"Buy complete Upper/Lower"
My 2nd AR I bought a complete Upper and complete Lower from the same maker.
No hammers, punches, or other crap necessary.
Much nicer build than the franken-AR, but still missing the Warranty and fit/finish of a quality factory made rifle.
#2 best option.

Features to focus on:
- Barrel Twist - Try to go for a 1:7 twist. Can handle heavier bullets for longer distances.
- Barrel Chrome Lined - there are other more exotic coatings now. None of them are necessary.
- "Features" - I'm a lefty, and I know the SIG M400 has Ambidextrous mag release, bolt safety, charging handle and upgraded/enhanced everything else on it. The lower receiver is also reinforced in key areas, and the Lower has a QD mount built-in. 
Personally, I like the Magpul furniture. Comfortable and very light weight.
Most of the higher-end AR15 accessories are Mall-Ninja cool, and do nothing other than add weight, and typically serve little to no purpose outside of warfare.

I laugh every time I see an idiot at the range with a $3000 AR15, with lights and grips and lasers hanging off of it, shooting match -grade ammunition at paper targets.
Morons.

By the way... there are Sig Sauer M400's on sale which come with a Romeo red-dot sight. Good quality sight for the money.
I know of an FFL who has one. 
PM if interested.

 

 

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All of you have "Franken-Guns", but most don't even know it.  Most people do not know why similar parts are more or less in price, but a proper education would relieve purchase anxiety.  Unfortunately, many retailers only chase the dollars and could care less.

Scratching and/or dinging a rifle has never effected the accuracy of any of my rifles.

I'm a moron with a $3,000 AR.  Also the same moron with a fully kit out Phantom, prototype spotting equipment and other tools that I use to their fullest capacity.  I shoot at CJRPC/New Holland/Mifflin when I can and share my gear with anyone who asks.  I don't laugh at those who shoot off the bench, have expensive rifles, cheap rifles, unsure of what to do, nervous, not look cool, because I remember being there.  As a riflemen and Patriot, it's our duty to promote the wonderful craft and spread the truth.  When we see "those guys" (who usually can't shoot even if their lives depended on it) at the range doing stupid things and making "the lesser" feel inadequate, we should be correcting them. 

My simple range trip usually takes a lot longer than planned.  Most of the time, people come over and ask questions with regards to parts, shooting, advice, help, etc....  I always try to help to the best of my ability, promote the craft, and encourage them to spread the word.  Shame on those who snicker and sneer at others at the range or on forums.

I'm the moron on the right with my $3000.00 1,000 yard steel ringing AR.  The guy on the left fired both of my rifles for the first time and his expression is what a range day for the newbies is all about for a rifleman.

23658442_10212244197918022_1313967131053

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5 hours ago, Mreed731 said:

I guess cutting it off is no big deal?

Removing a pinned FH or muzzle brake is not really hard if you go at it slow with a grinding wheel. Most of the compliance work I've seen by FFL's are not cleaned up well. Meaning, the pin is not flush with the surface of the FH or muzzle brake. This is good if you intend to remove it as you know where the area is to grind around. Steve, @remixer, at Monmouth Arms does outstanding compliance work when it comes to pinning a muzzle brake. The pin is not visible at all, it's neither above or below the surface area of the muzzle brake. Also, he takes the time to blue the area once finished. I think that Steve may have OCD for the amount of labor he puts into it.

This is why I suggest getting the lower receiver last as you do not want a non-compliant fully assembled rifle. The upper receiver I believe to be the hardest part of the build as some people may not have access to tools like a vise and a barrel wrench. There is a section in the forum called "NJGF Pass-Around" where you can request to borrow a tool to assist with your build.

 

3 hours ago, monmouth said:

All of you have "Franken-Guns", but most don't even know it.  Most people do not know why similar parts are more or less in price, but a proper education would relieve purchase anxiety.  Unfortunately, many retailers only chase the dollars and could care less.

Scratching and/or dinging a rifle has never effected the accuracy of any of my rifles.

I'm a moron with a $3,000 AR.  Also the same moron with a fully kit out Phantom, prototype spotting equipment and other tools that I use to their fullest capacity.  I shoot at CJRPC/New Holland/Mifflin when I can and share my gear with anyone who asks.  I don't laugh at those who shoot off the bench, have expensive rifles, cheap rifles, unsure of what to do, nervous, not look cool, because I remember being there.  As a riflemen and Patriot, it's our duty to promote the wonderful craft and spread the truth.  When we see "those guys" (who usually can't shoot even if their lives depended on it) at the range doing stupid things and making "the lesser" feel inadequate, we should be correcting them. 

My simple range trip usually takes a lot longer than planned.  Most of the time, people come over and ask questions with regards to parts, shooting, advice, help, etc....  I always try to help to the best of my ability, promote the craft, and encourage them to spread the word.  Shame on those who snicker and sneer at others at the range or on forums.

I'm the moron on the right with my $3000.00 1,000 yard steel ringing AR.  The guy on the left fired both of my rifles for the first time and his expression is what a range day for the newbies is all about for a rifleman.

Absolutely nothing wrong if someone wants to buy a completed rifle. My first two AR's I've purchased in the mid 90's were completed rifles, a Colt and a Bushmaster. However, if YouTube was around at that time I'm pretty sure I would have built it myself as it took me time to save up money to make these purchases. As @DTtuner has pointed out earlier, if warranty is important to you then buy a completed rifle. However, comparing a 1,000.00 rifle to another that is 4 times more with a similar model. You cannot complain as those parts have a premium value attached to them during mfg. IMO, building the rifle yourself provides you with a better understanding of the mechanics behind the gun. It can help you identify simple malfunctions if you know where to look. Once you built your first AR, you'll understand why people refer to them as Lego's.

Totally agree that we should all share our knowledge when it comes to firearms as it concerns safety when shooting. Sometimes there will disagreement with another as far as brand or what accessory to put on. I say "Your money, your decision!". The only exception to this would be your wife. An easily remedy to this is to say it cost 1/3 of what you spent, but the downside to this is if you die she will sell it for that price.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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57 minutes ago, TokenEntry said:

@monmouth

What camo pattern is that on your rifle? Did you have the rifle cerokoted? The old school camo pattern looks very cool vs the digital ones you mostly see nowadays.

Regards,

TokenEntry

Thank you,  I did it myself with Aervoe spray paint, home made stencils, and Bulldog adhesion promoter on the plastics.  It's my version of a multi-cam/old school woodland camo.  It's actually more durable than most would believe and one of buddies can attest to it (he's dropped my rifle twice on the ground, lol).

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1 minute ago, monmouth said:

Thank you,  I did it myself with Aervoe spray paint, home made stencils, and Bulldog adhesion promoter on the plastics.  It's my version of a multi-cam/old school woodland camo.  It's actually more durable than most would believe and one of buddies can attest to it (he's dropped my rifle twice on the ground, lol).

That is really a good job you did there. The camo colors look similar to the German flecktarn surplus clothing, which is why I commented about the digital camo pattern.

Regards,

TokenEntry

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34 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Cause we build our own. And we take the advice of really good people here.

And we take new shooters every chance afforded, or entertain them like @monmouth. We are doing it wrong! 

You have to remember in the early 90's there weren't many AR mfg's like there are now. Most people would have purchased their ARs as completed rifles. Anyone that was new to the AR platform would have to have done some lengthy research online in order to have built their rifle. YouTube was not around until 2005 and the 94" AWB was in place, irrelevant if you live in NJ. You won't find major name brand parts being sold separately unless you shopped used. Also, the most common configurations on an AR back then had an A2 stock, a crowned barrel or an AK74 type muzzle brake, 1/7 or 1/9 twist barrel, most barrels were HBAR or HBAR with an M4 cut into it, and most FFLs did not do compliance work. This means no pinned CAR stocks on ARs at your LGS. The top tier AR mfgs were Armalite, Bushmaster, and Colt. Those ARs sold back then were far from mil spec.

Colt Match Target rifles:

*Odd pin sizes in FCG

*Odd size for front take down pin, ended up with a screw down pin and no drill hole for the spring and detent on the receiver

*Sear block on lower receiver

*Semi BCG, the half moon

*Rear buffer was plastic over some metal rod

*Colt never sold their lower receivers separately back then

Bushmaster XM15 rifles:

*Semi BCG, bottom of BC was exposed showing the back of the firing pin

*Plastic trigger guard

Armalite rifles:

*No comment as I never owned one

 

When someone buys a high end rifle, it's not likely they'll have common parts like an A2 grip, plastic hand guards w/heat shield, A2 or M4 stock, or your standard charging handle. My suggestion is to buy or build as many ARs as you want cause you have a lot more choices now than others would have in the 90's. I've taken quite a few new shooters to the range in the past on my dime and most I would say are a lost cause. I can probably attribute this to my line of work and industry I'm in. There are people out there who are really autistic retards with down syndrome.

Regards,

TokenEntry

 

 

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To answer the OP original question - STAG Arms is a very nice rifle for the money

They offer a Lifetime (Transferable) warranty on the gun AND the barrel

If purchased through a dealer, you get a Hardshell carry case at N/C

They offer several AR's types Styles (R/H, L/H, 5.56, 9mm, 308, ect)

YES, I am biased because I'm a Stag dealer, but i sell them because I believe in the product.............

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18 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

YES, I am biased because I'm a Stag dealer, but i sell them because I believe in the product.............

Stag Arms of 2006 was junk, they have made strides since then.   

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You guys are great! I never expected to get this much response and information from my question. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do yet but I have far more information to work with than I did. I appreciate all this help.

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44 minutes ago, Mreed731 said:

You guys are great! I never expected to get this much response and information from my question. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do yet but I have far more information to work with than I did. I appreciate all this help.

If you happen to decide you want a Stag - call me, I'll get you a good deal.....

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+1 on Windham Weaponry. Shameless plug here but I'm publishing an article on the WW-308 this week to a major media outlet :)

Little higher on price but you won't be upset, MSRP is $1640 but you can probably get this for $1500 if you shop around

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/way-of-the-gun-performance-carbine/

and here's the .308 I'm writing about 

IMG_5309-1200x745.jpg

Windham Weaponry rifles are built like tanks and have a lifetime warranty that's transferrable, they may not be the most tacticool rifles, but you can certainly make it one. Use @remixer he's got great pricing.

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9 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

If you happen to decide you want a Stag - call me, I'll get you a good deal.....

I was looking at a model 3 but it seems to have been discontinued or maybe just renamed? Is it really worth the couple hundred $ more than the Ruger 556 or Smith 15 Sport?

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2 minutes ago, Mreed731 said:

I was looking at a model 3 but it seems to have been discontinued or maybe just renamed? Is it really worth the couple hundred $ more than the Ruger 556 or Smith 15 Sport?

The Model 3 has been re-designed and it now the VRST - it now has the DiamondHead fore guard - nice!

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33 minutes ago, Mreed731 said:

I was looking at a model 3 but it seems to have been discontinued or maybe just renamed? Is it really worth the couple hundred $ more than the Ruger 556 or Smith 15 Sport?

Honest question, why do you want such a cheap gun? Not there is anything wrong with either of these, but they're going to leave you with more to be desired and spending even more money in upgrades.

watch this video about buying a base model. I think this chimes in with what a lot of people are saying that you should build a rifle you want.

If that's not what you want, I recommend buying a decent mid-range priced AR that has a lot of good factory features like a Windham Weaponry, Spikes Tactical, Sig M400 Elite, or a LWRC DI. There is still some things to be desired in these rifles too, but a lot less you'll have to do. With just about any rifle all you need is a good trigger and a good optic to make it really good, anything else you're going to upgrade is really just out of your "wants" instead of "needs". Trust me, you spend enough time browsing this forum, ar15.com or any gun porn you see on social media, that mil-spec AR from ruger or S&W is gonna look boring in your eyes and you're gonna spend even more money making upgrades to it. Get one of the 4 rifles I just mentioned, order from @remixer because you won't get a better price on a NJ compliant one of any of those. Hell for $190 more on the LWRC you can get a Geissele SSA-E Trigger installed from the factory, which you'll probably end up doing it down the road anyways for $250, so do it right away. Save the money you know you're going to spend in the future to make your rifle look cool, and use it for a good optic & ammo.

feel free to PM me if you want direct answers rather than getting multiple answers that will lead you to further confusion.

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On 4/7/2018 at 10:34 AM, monmouth said:

I'm the moron on the right with my $3000.00 1,000 yard steel ringing AR.  

23658442_10212244197918022_1313967131053

Damn... you bitches look cute. 
Do you always stop for selfies at the gun range, so you can twittle-tweet your friends?
Was this taken before or after the reach-around?

My under-$700 franken-AR could ring steel at 1000 yards.
Congrats, bro.
Video on a different topic, but right up your alley.
Good section on selfies... 

 

On 4/7/2018 at 10:13 AM, Ray Ray said:

Jesus Christ...

Found once, I'm with stupid.

 

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3 hours ago, JR88USMC said:

With just about any rifle all you need is a good trigger and a good optic to make it really good...

Boom. All the information you need to take from this entire thread.
Take JR88USMC's quote, and walk away from this opinion shitshow.

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I have nothing against building an AR, but from my own experience, buy an AR or 2 before you get in to building them so you have an idea of what suits your needs. Just don't buy a cheap-o like a Ruger 556 or M&P 15. There's a reason why the parkland shooter used one, because he was poor and didn't see a future for himself. If you have money to recreational shoot, get yourself a decent AR to start with that will need minor tweaks, not a cheap AR that you're going to spend twofold on to upgrade. 

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current Bushmaster, yes. which is why I said go with Windham. but think about it @Ray Ray , you buy one of those, you're going to upgrade the rail, stock, pistol grip, trigger, flip ups, you're gonna buy an optic for it at some point, maybe throw a muzzle brake on there and you'll be spending twofold that you did on the rifle. Where as you are better off building one.

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