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Alternatives To Facebook

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On 4/9/2018 at 10:51 AM, WP22 said:

Absolutely not. Let the market deal with them. If enough people become dissatisfied with them, an alternative will emerge.

Once the gov makes it a monopoly, the gov will have a primary interest in preventing other platforms to emerging. That's the angle the Zuck is playing by asking for gov regulations; he'll trade some regulations that he can influence via donations for having a monopoly. He's rent seeking; he wants to be the next PSE&G. He want the gov to make it so prohibitively expensive in money and regulation for a viable competition to emerge.

Ask yourself how many cable co's are available to you? Electrical? Gas? And why?

On the other hand, how many gas stations from different oil companies exist in your area?

 

 

O

Unfortunately this argument should be left in the 18th century where it belongs. The reality is that Facebook encompasses multiple Industries and tens of billions of dollars. They control nearly half of all ad Revenue in the United States this alone means that their policies have a broad and gigantic effect on companies in every industry Across the Nation and even the world. They are the primary source of news which means that they are people hiding behind an algorithm from an office in California dictating what topics get to be important and what does not. The vast majority of the population is both unaware of what Facebook does or what Facebook's business really even is. You can't vote with your feet if you don't even know that there's a problem and your primary source of information is capable of hiding anything from you that they don't want you to know. Oh and they can just buy any place you go to instead. You can't vote with your wallet for something you don't even pay for. You're not the customer you're the product. This is a nightmare situation beyond what even science fiction authors predicted. Not to mention the fact that with their gigantic assets Facebook simply buys out its competitors before they ever get big enough to challenge it. When Instagram started taking views away they bought Instagram. When WhatsApp was getting people to stop using Messenger they bought WhatsApp. Facebook buys dozens of companies every month that you never even hear of they buy them straight out of the Cradle sometimes before they even come into existence. A strategy for many startups and Venture capitalists in Silicon Valley is not to make a successful business but instead just to make something that Facebook or Google or Amazon will buy out.

Facebook needs to go and the only people who can do that or the government sorry to say

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10 minutes ago, mossburger said:

Facebook needs to go and the only people who can do that or the government sorry to say

True. What you’re saying is more than true. Gone are the days of founding a business and growing it into a blue chip industry. But I feel it’s more than a government intervention needed. There needs to be a massive education about the internet in general. You can wipe out FB completely and someone will be right on their tails. These are not private conversations we’re having on these sites. And these sites aren’t out there out of the goodness of their hearts. Including this one. They are a business out to make money. Period. Every piece of info no matter how small, every click made on these sites generate big bucks for them. Click on an ad and they get a quarter. Put in your phone number and you’ll start getting calls. Put in your birthdate and you get restaurant and flower recommendations around that date. These things aren’t coincidental. They are manipulations to get your money. They are not social pleasentries. We need more than oversight. We need an awakening. 

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47 minutes ago, BobA said:

True. What you’re saying is more than true. Gone are the days of founding a business and growing it into a blue chip industry. But I feel it’s more than a government intervention needed. There needs to be a massive education about the internet in general. You can wipe out FB completely and someone will be right on their tails. These are not private conversations we’re having on these sites. And these sites aren’t out there out of the goodness of their hearts. Including this one. They are a business out to make money. Period. Every piece of info no matter how small, every click made on these sites generate big bucks for them. Click on an ad and they get a quarter. Put in your phone number and you’ll start getting calls. Put in your birthdate and you get restaurant and flower recommendations around that date. These things aren’t coincidental. They are manipulations to get your money. They are not social pleasentries. We need more than oversight. We need an awakening. 

 

1 hour ago, mossburger said:

Unfortunately this argument should be left in the 18th century where it belongs. The reality is that Facebook encompasses multiple Industries and tens of billions of dollars. They control nearly half of all ad Revenue in the United States this alone means that their policies have a broad and gigantic effect on companies in every industry Across the Nation and even the world. They are the primary source of news which means that they are people hiding behind an algorithm from an office in California dictating what topics get to be important and what does not. The vast majority of the population is both unaware of what Facebook does or what Facebook's business really even is. You can't vote with your feet if you don't even know that there's a problem and your primary source of information is capable of hiding anything from you that they don't want you to know. Oh and they can just buy any place you go to instead. You can't vote with your wallet for something you don't even pay for. You're not the customer you're the product. This is a nightmare situation beyond what even science fiction authors predicted. Not to mention the fact that with their gigantic assets Facebook simply buys out its competitors before they ever get big enough to challenge it. When Instagram started taking views away they bought Instagram. When WhatsApp was getting people to stop using Messenger they bought WhatsApp. Facebook buys dozens of companies every month that you never even hear of they buy them straight out of the Cradle sometimes before they even come into existence. A strategy for many startups and Venture capitalists in Silicon Valley is not to make a successful business but instead just to make something that Facebook or Google or Amazon will buy out.

Facebook needs to go and the only people who can do that or the government sorry to say

Good points!

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There is this site called mewe.  Howell Gun Works posts a few things over there because FB gives them grief so often.  I haven't looked around there much other than checking out the posts from Howell, so you'll have to take a look and make your own judgement. 

Clearly with 2 billion users no one is going to have the breath of content that FB does.

Mewe might become a good spot for FFLs to list their wares and maybe some YouTube videos will move there having been kicked off of YouTube. Could just fade away eventually too.

This is a link to an article from them telling you why you should use them and dump FB.  The URL to the site itself is just mewe.com
https://blog.mewe.com/why-you-should-kick-facebook-to-the-curb-and-where-you-should-go-instead/

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25 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Do you break up Amazon also?

Why would you break up Amazon, they have true competitors?  They don't tell you they won't let you buy items that they sell because they don't like your opinions.

If FB does not like what you post they should have the option to hide it till a user clicks on it an accepts it might fall into certain categories, similar to what is done here with the 1st Amendment Lounge section.

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5 minutes ago, Howard said:

Why would you break up Amazon, they have true competitors?  They don't tell you they won't let you buy items that they sell because they don't like your opinions.

If FB does not like what you post they should have the option to hide it till a user clicks on it an accepts it might fall into certain categories, similar to what is done here with the 1st Amendment Lounge section.

Amazon no sell ar parts. Very little fire arms parts. No? I wrong? No mags. No boolits. 

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On 4/10/2018 at 3:53 PM, Zeke said:

@AVB-AMG care to opine?

@Zeke:

Since you asked, I have never had, nor do I think that I ever will subscribe to purely social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter or others that are like them.  I have never felt the need to use those services to communicate with my friends and relatives, since email and texting with them has proven to be perfectly sufficient for me.  I have never understood the willingness of so many people who do subscribe to these services to either unwittingly or naively share their very personal information and data on a platform that has long been known to mine that information and sell it for a profit.  Now, having said that, I do use LinkedIn professionally as a network of business associates. I have found that it is a good way to maintain less frequent contacts, as well as to scope out potential customers work and education history, prior to meeting with them.  Finally, of course, I also frequent NJGF, which in one way, is an alternative to Facebook, with a narrower, more special interest focused audience and forum for what at times may possibly be more enlightened public discourse, (or not).

Facebook is operated as an anti-competitive monopoly. It relies on software and practices that disallow theoretical competitors from directly interacting with it, thereby locking out other personal social media businesses from partaking with members of that lucrative market.  The truth is that Facebook has been getting away with murder for quite some time. It's a lot easier when there are hardly any regulations over them and their management does not care whether they are damaging the fabric of our society, as long as the money keeps rolling in, which it certainly has over the past 14 years.  One could argue that this is the price that we pay as a society for having greed the prime motivation in our economic system.  We saw that greed in action with the mortgage/housing collapse and financial industry meltdown in 2008.

I agree with the opinions on this topic expressed in this thread by @Howard, that there needs to be accountability for truth telling and that means imposing some appropriate level of federal regulation. To that end I would also suggest that content needs to be designated as either "fact" and/or "opinion". Providers violating those designations would be booted off the platform and/or fined in ways that would impose a legitimate deterrent.

We know that Facebook’s management either ignored or was oblivious to how foreign entities manipulated the service in the 2016 Presidential election.  According to Roger McNamee, an early Facebook investor and Board member, both Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg were well aware of the use of the Facebook platform by foreigners to influence that election, and they deliberately failed to take any actions that would adversely affect their revenue streams.  Over a period of 3 months in mid-2016, Mr. McNamee tried to convince both of them to report the facts to Federal officials, and they refused to do so. It is shameful that the actions of Facebook's top executives have consistently shown their unwillingness to take user privacy as seriously as is warranted.  Here is a recent interview with McNamee where he states his actions and concerns:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/03/22/roger-mcnamee-self-inflicted-wounds-are-killing-facebook.html

IMHO, the current business model of Facebook will never align with users' interests.  I also agree with what @mossburger said in his post regarding Facebook: “you are not the customer, you are the product”.  Facebook's actual customers are the companies/entities that pay them to place advertisements on Facebook.  Their company culture has evolved and is now centered on data harvesting with minimal restrictions and has only ever been modified very reluctantly when forced by public pressure.  Mark Zuckerberg’s current Mea culpa tour of Capitol Hill and testimony before the Congressional Committees is pure theatrical damage control.  Cynically, I would not be surprised if both Zuckerberg and Sandberg fully expected and have planned for some form of regulation over Facebook, which they could deal with, that would also establish one more hurdle for any would be social media competitor.

At this point, I think that Facebook needs to replace its business model since as it currently is, it cannot be "fixed". The current model pits the interests of the company’s executives and shareholders against its users. Any major modifications that alter the collection and management of user data will lower their revenues.  Therefore, I think the solution may be two-fold:  First, Congress should pass legislation to regulate these type of social media platforms, placing stringent boundaries and penalties for breaking them, on their harvesting and sharing their users private information.  Secondly, since it is quite apparent that so many subscribers are by now, sufficiently addicted to Facebook, that realistically, they should and would pay to use that service.  This major revision of their business model would greatly diminish their reliance on selling the private information of subscribers to advertisers, while still harvesting solid profits.

AVB-AMG

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5 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

Since you asked, I have never had, nor do I think that I ever will subscribe to purely social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter or others that may have proceeded them.  I have never felt the need to use those services to communicate with my friends and relatives, since email and texting with them has proven to be perfectly sufficient for me.  I have never understood the willingness of so many people who do subscribe to these services to either unwittingly or naively share their very personal information and data on a platform that has long been known to mine that information and sell it for a profit.  Now, having said that, I do use LinkedIn professionally as a network of business associates. I have found that it is a good way to maintain less frequent contacts, as well as to scope out potential customers work and education history, prior to meeting with them.  Finally, of course, I also frequent NJGF, which in one way, is an alternative to Facebook, with a narrower, more special interest focused audience and forum for what at times may possibly be more enlightened public discourse, (or not).

Facebook is operated as an anti-competitive monopoly. It relies on software and practices that disallow theoretical competitors from interacting with it, thereby locking out other personal social media businesses from interacting with that lucrative market.  The truth is that Facebook has been getting away with murder for quite some time. It's a lot easier when there are hardly any regulations over them and their management does not care whether they are damaging the fabric of our society, as long as the money keeps rolling in, which it certainly has over the past 14 years.  One could argue that this is the price that we pay as a society for having greed the prime motivation in our economic system.  We saw that that greed in action with the mortgage/housing collapse and financial industry meltdown in 2008.

I agree with the opinions on this topic expressed in this thread by @Howard, that there needs to be accountability for truth telling and that means imposing some appropriate level of federal regulation. To that end I would also suggest that content needs to be designated as either "fact" and/or "opinion". Providers violating those designations would be booted off the platform and/or fined in ways that would impose a legitimate deterrent.

We know that Facebook’s management either ignored or was oblivious to how foreign entities manipulated the service in the 2016 Presidential election.  According to Roger McNamee, an early Facebook investor and Board member, both Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg were well aware of the use of the Facebook platform by foreigners to influence that election, and they deliberately failed to take any actions that would adversely affect their revenue streams.   Over a period of 3 months in mid-2016, Mr. McNamee tried to convince both of them to report the facts to Federal officials, and they refused to do so. It is shameful that the actions of Facebook's top executives have consistently shown their unwillingness to take user privacy as seriously as is warranted.  Here is a recent interview with McNamee where he states his actions and concerns:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/03/22/roger-mcnamee-self-inflicted-wounds-are-killing-facebook.html

IMHO, the current business model of Facebook will never align with users' interests.  I also agree with what @mossburger said in his post regarding Facebook: “you are not the customer, you are the product”.  Their company culture is centered on data harvesting with minimal restrictions and has only ever been modified very reluctantly when forced by public pressure.  Mark Zuckerberg’s current Mea culpa tour of Capitol Hill and testimony before the Congressional Committees is pure theatrical damage control.  Cynically, I would not be surprised if both Zuckerberg and Sandberg fully expected and have planned for some form of regulation over Facebook, which they could deal with, that would also establish one more hurdle for any would be social media competitor.

At this point, I think that Facebook needs to replace its business model since as it currently is, it cannot be "fixed". The current model pits the interests of the company’s executives and shareholders against its users. Any major modifications that alter the collection and management of user data will lower their revenues.  So at this point, I think the solution is two-fold.  First, Congress should pass legislation to regulate these type of social media platforms, placing stringent boundaries and penalties for breaking them, on their harvesting and sharing their users private information.  Secondly, since it is quite apparent that so many subscribers are by now, sufficiently addicted to Facebook, that realistically, they should and would pay to use that service.  This major revision of their business model would greatly diminish their reliance on selling the private information of subscribers to advertisers, while still harvesting solid profits.

AVB-AMG

Solid point as well. Thank you

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23 hours ago, PeteF said:

Why would i want an "alternative" to anti social networks?  Never even vaquely felt the need.   I've meet all my friends, and if i have a follower, I call 911.

See, this right here is half the problem. I don't know if you're just kidding or what, but I'm going to assume you're probably middle aged or a little older. No offense and please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems to me like a HUGE part of how companies like Facebook get away with murder is that people in the Boomer generation sort of having this "I'm too cool for technology" attitude or "I'm too cool to learn that geek stuff" they're the only group who hold not knowing how to log into your email as a badge of honor, rather than an indication of incompetence. They're often just as hooked as anyone though, I've seen plenty of them melt down when they break their phone, lose all the photos of their grandkids, and realize that stupid iCloud thingamajig they've been making fun of for the last 3 years would have their photos back in an hour. 

Folks like this and their apathetic attitude is a big part of what allow these companies to what AVB-AMG describes so well. 

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9 minutes ago, mossburger said:

It seems to me like a HUGE part of how companies like Facebook get away with murder is that people in the Boomer generation sort of having this "I'm too cool for technology" attitude or "I'm too cool to learn that geek stuff" they're the only group who hold not knowing how to log into your email as a badge of honor, rather than an indication of incompetence.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe those boomers are smart enough to know not to put their complete history, friends, personal facts and assorted other personal items out on a web site they DON'T control and have no idea where that information is going?

Maybe the younger generations are the incompetent ones.....

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My personal feeling about the data mining that FB (and other social media) does, borders on insidious.

The mere fact that people WILLINGLY put their personal information on a website such as that makes me shudder. Every click you make, every site you visit, every person or business you connect with builds an extremely detailed profile about you, and everyone you know. How you think. How you process information. Not to mention that they use this data profile not only to target advertising directly to you, but to target political/social ‘opinions’, and the mass of other (mis)information to you to sway the way you think scares the crap out of me. 

Orwell was right....just a few years off the mark. 

 

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6 hours ago, mossburger said:

See, this right here is half the problem. I don't know if you're just kidding or what, but I'm going to assume you're probably middle aged or a little older. No offense and please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems to me like a HUGE part of how companies like Facebook get away with murder is that people in the Boomer generation sort of having this "I'm too cool for technology" attitude or "I'm too cool to learn that geek stuff" they're the only group who hold not knowing how to log into your email as a badge of honor, rather than an indication of incompetence. They're often just as hooked as anyone though, I've seen plenty of them melt down when they break their phone, lose all the photos of their grandkids, and realize that stupid iCloud thingamajig they've been making fun of for the last 3 years would have their photos back in an hour. 

Folks like this and their apathetic attitude is a big part of what allow these companies to what AVB-AMG describes so well. 

Well you are very wrong about my technical capabilities.  I build and program navigation systems for subs, tanks, artillery and UAVs.  I am plenty capable of "logging into email".  And also not a boomer.

I have no desire to join an anti social network.   That is what things like farcebook are.  If i want to meet people, I actually do it.  Face to face.  If i need to stay in touch with someone i give them a call.  

The facebook generation is the most socially inept group I have ever seen.  Ever seen a group of 20yos out at dinner?  They can't even carry on a conversation without having to check their phones.

As to the cloud.  Good plan, put all your private personal information out where anyone and their brother can get access to it.  I prefer my private life private.  Lets see when the next "data breach" occurs.

If you are not paying for a service, you are not the customer you are the product.

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15 hours ago, mossburger said:

See, this right here is half the problem. I don't know if you're just kidding or what, but I'm going to assume you're probably middle aged or a little older. No offense and please correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems to me like a HUGE part of how companies like Facebook get away with murder is that people in the Boomer generation sort of having this "I'm too cool for technology" attitude or "I'm too cool to learn that geek stuff" they're the only group who hold not knowing how to log into your email as a badge of honor, rather than an indication of incompetence. They're often just as hooked as anyone though, I've seen plenty of them melt down when they break their phone, lose all the photos of their grandkids, and realize that stupid iCloud thingamajig they've been making fun of for the last 3 years would have their photos back in an hour. 

Folks like this and their apathetic attitude is a big part of what allow these companies to what AVB-AMG describes so well. 

going outside and not being able to start your lawnmower or chainsaw or snowblower is incompetence. not knowing how to log into your email is a slight inconvenience.

 what i find most amusing/disturbing, is that too dam many people store ALL of their stuff on the icloud, or some other version of the cloud. i can't tell you how many times i've tried to explain to them that they're storing their personal shit on someone elses computer......and regardless of what you think.....that ain't secure. at all.

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

going outside and not being able to start your lawnmower or chainsaw or snowblower is incompetence. not knowing how to log into your email is a slight inconvenience.

 what i find most amusing/disturbing, is that too dam many people store ALL of their stuff on the icloud, or some other version of the cloud. i can't tell you how many times i've tried to explain to them that they're storing their personal shit on someone elses computer......and regardless of what you think.....that ain't secure. at all.

When I meet stupid people like that, those that can't grasp the fact the the cloud is nothing but a data server in someones basement in India, or maybe even Hillary's bathroom. I tell them if they store their stuff in the cloud it will get wet during the next rain shower, and wait for their stupefied faces.

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