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Ray Ray

I didn't want to, but.......

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37 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

This is so easy to solve.  Put your money where your mouth is.  

Plenty here talk a big game, but when push comes to shove "something always comes up".

I get it... I really do. I jus don’t want to hear all your awesome ideas after the fact, combined with your excuses. It’s pathetic. And people should be ashamed 

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1 hour ago, Zeke said:

I get it... I really do. I jus don’t want to hear all your awesome ideas after the fact, combined with your excuses. It’s pathetic. And people should be ashamed 

I don't know if I want to smack you in the back of the head or spank your butt.

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2 hours ago, Zeke said:

I get it... I really do. I jus don’t want to hear all your awesome ideas after the fact, combined with your excuses. It’s pathetic. And people should be ashamed 

Whoa bro. Why can't someone have an awesome idea after the fact? Aren't we supposed to learn from each action?

I didn't attend yesterday for a number of reasons. That doesn't mean that I care less than anyone else! I made a $ donation yesterday to one of our 2A groups because I didn't attend the rally. Do I care less?

One of my take-aways from yesterday across the country. We do not have a "Daddy Bigbucks" behind us to bus in and pay rally participants, set-up state-of-the-art audio systems, pay professional speakers with unified talking points, import the press and give them professional copy to use, etc. Should I continue? The idea that all it takes is a simple tweet to the antis and they come out in the thousands is BS!

Very few "regular" gun owners knew anything about yesterday's rally. If you're not a member of NJGF or a few select Facebook pages, you knew nothing! You own your firearms, you appreciate them, and you take them to the range to "practice" (maybe) where you're probably not a member. How do we reach those people, who outnumber us?

We need better and coordinated communication, not the crap that we got (and didn't get) prior to yesterday. I'm far from a whining snowflake, but how do we convince someone to attend a rally when we don't even know who's speaking (if anyone) until 24-hours before the fact? No speakers? That's fine too, I don't need to hear the same crap said a dozen different ways. But tell us that there won't be speakers!

I'm in my 60s, I've attended rallies before some of you were born! I won't attend a rally where I don't know exactly what I'm supporting. Pro 2A, hell yes. Not enough info about what else may be put out there, hell no. Been there, done that, not happening again.

As for NJ gunowners in general, we can't fault them for not attending something that they didn't know about. They should be our target audience, they're all ready leaning our way. NJ politicians are bought and paid for, ain't gonna happen. The anti groups? Also bought and paid for, no way we sway 99.9% of them. Joe/Jill Doe NJ gunowner who isn't active in 2A social media (or social media in general), those are the people we need to find and target so we can get them out to vote. That takes $ so maybe something as simple as a couple of ads in a few newspapers might reach some. People do still read newspapers and the ad-purchaser gets to develop and finalize the copy/message, not the press.

Yeah, I have an opinion and I wasn't at the rally yesterday (I was at the previous Trenton rally).

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Wow I can't believe what I just read. I am the first to enjoy a good deabate, but to see people's opinions don't matter because they didn't go to one rally that had a couple hundred people? Seriously???

 

I'm going on record now. I am not going to attend another rally anytime soon, because I feel it is a waste of my time and the crowds will not be large enough to make a difference. Unless we have real money behind the rally. With massive advertising, busing in firearms owners from other states, and even paid protestors. A truly successful rally needs 100,000 IMO. A rally with a crowd of a few hundred makes the other side say see it's only the hardcore gun nuts who care.

 

Personally I don't believe there are 1 Million firearms owners in NJ. I believe the number is half of that. Of that half how many are law enforcement and former law enforcement? There are some law enforcement that are strong Pro 2A, and there are many that really don't care because their rights are protected. Then you have the FUDDS and those who own a single shotgun or revovler. So maybe there are 250,000 firearms owners who are actually affected and care. We don't have nearly that many on the forum or as members of State 2A groups. There are maybe 10,000 that are active members of the variousbgroups, forums, and Facebook pages combined. My point of the numbers is even if every single one of those who are active show up it isn't enough. It is 10% of what we need. Somehow we need to reach the other 90%. This will take money.

 

So what we really need to do is focus on fund raising and big fund raising. My couple hundred dollars and everyone else's couple hundred dollars is a drop in the bucket. We need people that will cut $100k and $1M checks. Once we have the funds it is a lot easier to do anything else.

 

I will not mock anyone for going to rallies. At the same time I would expect those that go to rallies to not attack those that don't. Everyone has ideas and sharing of ideas is the point of a forum. Not everyone has to like everyone's ideas and that's ok. It's even fine to talk out flaws in the ideas. It is not fine to tell people their ideas don't matter.

 

 

 

 

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Whoa bro. Why can't someone have an awesome idea after the fact? Aren't we supposed to learn from each action?
I didn't attend yesterday for a number of reasons. That doesn't mean that I care less than anyone else! I made a $ donation yesterday to one of our 2A groups because I didn't attend the rally. Do I care less?
One of my take-aways from yesterday across the country. We do not have a "Daddy Bigbucks" behind us to bus in and pay rally participants, set-up state-of-the-art audio systems, pay professional speakers with unified talking points, import the press and give them professional copy to use, etc. Should I continue? The idea that all it takes is a simple tweet to the antis and they come out in the thousands is BS!
Very few "regular" gun owners knew anything about yesterday's rally. If you're not a member of NJGF or a few select Facebook pages, you knew nothing! You own your firearms, you appreciate them, and you take them to the range to "practice" (maybe) where you're probably not a member. How do we reach those people, who outnumber us?
We need better and coordinated communication, not the crap that we got (and didn't get) prior to yesterday. I'm far from a whining snowflake, but how do we convince someone to attend a rally when we don't even know who's speaking (if anyone) until 24-hours before the fact? No speakers? That's fine too, I don't need to hear the same crap said a dozen different ways. But tell us that there won't be speakers!
I'm in my 60s, I've attended rallies before some of you were born! I won't attend a rally where I don't know exactly what I'm supporting. Pro 2A, hell yes. Not enough info about what else may be put out there, hell no. Been there, done that, not happening again.
As for NJ gunowners in general, we can't fault them for not attending something that they didn't know about. They should be our target audience, they're all ready leaning our way. NJ politicians are bought and paid for, ain't gonna happen. The anti groups? Also bought and paid for, no way we sway 99.9% of them. Joe/Jill Doe NJ gunowner who isn't active in 2A social media (or social media in general), those are the people we need to find and target so we can get them out to vote. That takes $ so maybe something as simple as a couple of ads in a few newspapers might reach some. People do still read newspapers and the ad-purchaser gets to develop and finalize the copy/message, not the press.
Yeah, I have an opinion and I wasn't at the rally yesterday (I was at the previous Trenton rally).
We basically posted the same thing at the same time. Maybe we are on to something.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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GrL made me think of something.

Could one of the problems be that there is a misconception about 2A political advocacy?  Is there a perception that those that attend rallies for 2A are “gun nuts”?  As was said there is a tremendous middle ground of gun owners. Those that own and maybe training but don’t scour NJGF or r/ProGun or whatever. Even if they knew about the rally, and could attend, would they with this perception?  Do they want to be associated with the political extreme in their eyes?  You know the press salivates at continuing this misperception. 

How do we change that narrative and convince this middle ground that these rallies could be for them?  If we can’t, then what is the better way to reach them?

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I'm not going to comment on calling people out.  I've done it myself when I was younger & didn't know better.  With age comes wisdom.  I learned something yesterday at the NJGOP Summit.  I learned I was doing something right!  Volunteers want their volunteering to be both rewarding and FUN!  You want to call a meeting?  Figure-out how to make it FUN, and if you can, supply food or charge for it.  Food & FUN bring it all together.  Someone here wanted to know where lunch was before the Rally, so kudos to them for trying to keep it FUN!

Some folks (everyone that I & others from 2A spoke to) at the NJGOP Summit were very interested in the 2A Rally, and some even drove to Trenton to speak & then come back to the Summit.  Grass Roots is where it's at.  The politicians are paying attention.  

BE THE CHANGE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.  LIVE IT, DON'T HIDE IT & KEEP IT A SECRET!

Teamwork & attacking this beast from all sides is what it's about!  :) 

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14 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

Food & FUN bring it all together. 

I’ve heard that Zeke and others have done a great job bringing the folks from here together with the Shotgun Shootouts.  I wonder if something like that could be expanded to bring out new or potential gun owners. Add in a hibachi and burgers. Let the guys plug the forum and once they’re in they’ll pick up the politics like the rest of us did. 

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9 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

I'm not going to comment on calling people out.  I've done it myself when I was younger & didn't know better.  With age comes wisdom.  I learned something yesterday at the NJGOP Summit.  I learned I was doing something right!  Volunteers want their volunteering to be both rewarding and FUN!  You want to call a meeting?  Figure-out how to make it FUN, and if you can, supply food or charge for it.  Food & FUN bring it all together.  Someone here wanted to know where lunch was before the Rally, so kudos to them for trying to keep it FUN!

Some folks (everyone that I & others from 2A spoke to) at the NJGOP Summit were very interested in the 2A Rally, and some even drove to Trenton to speak & then come back to the Summit.  Grass Roots is where it's at.  The politicians are paying attention.  

BE THE CHANGE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.  LIVE IT, DON'T HIDE IT & KEEP IT A SECRET!

Teamwork & attacking this beast from all sides is what it's about!  :) 

Thanks for everything you do Rosey...... Sent ya another $100..... At least I can contribute that way.

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14 hours ago, Zeke said:

Fair point, but if you are not working hand in hand to fix the problem, should you even have an opinion?

or a platform to pontificate? 

Did you really just type that drivel?

 

Not to fascist are we?

 

For Pete's sake....  they had 75 people in nashville....  a joke.

 

You have zero concept in how to fight this battle.....  rallies are not effective for our side......   you cannot muster the forces to make an impact. 

 

You post...you whine....you stand in your ivory tower besmirching those that disagree with you.....  you remind me of Lee at Gettysburg.....  pushing the center when He could not gain the advantage and his generals advised against it....fools march.

Sadly sir you are the one that needs to be censured.....  for comments like that.

 

This isn't your forum...as much as you think it is and want it to be.

 

The free and open exchange of ideas...good and bad will continue.

 

This battle needs to shift gears from rallies and civil disobedience....what a stupid statement..... to more effective and concentrated attacks where it can stick and count. 

The only injunctive relief you are going to get is in the courts and THAT IS WHERE THE BATTLE NEEDS TO BE FOUGHT. 

 

And If the time to really take up arms happens we truly are in a world of sh.t

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, bhunted said:

Thanks for everything you do Rosey...... Sent ya another $100..... At least I can contribute that way.

Thanks to YOU John & on behalf of all of us at the Coalition, THANKS for your contribution to the FIGHT!

Rosey

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13 hours ago, Gunsrlegal said:

Very few "regular" gun owners knew anything about yesterday's rally. If you're not a member of NJGF or a few select Facebook pages, you knew nothing! You own your firearms, you appreciate them, and you take them to the range to "practice" (maybe) where you're probably not a member. How do we reach those people, who outnumber us?

We need better and coordinated communication, not the crap that we got (and didn't get) prior to yesterday.

I've been thinking about that. Getting the word out. Some questions/observations that I wonder about.

The rallies on Saturday were nationwide at all state capitols, not just a individual state thing like a few weeks ago.

1) I haven't been to the range in weeks, did any of the ranges have notices or posters put up advertising the rallies to anyone coming to the store or range to shoot?

2) Did any of the ranges or stores send out email notifications to their customer bases reminding them of the rallies? I didn't get any.

3) Since this was a nationwide effort, did any of the national organizations (NRA, GOA, etc) send out email notifications to their members reminding them? Only one I saw was from Oathkeepers.  I didn't get any others.

4) I get daily emails from many of the online suppliers (Palmetto, Cheaper than Dirt, Midway, Cabellas, Ammo suppliers, etc). I didn't get a single email from them reminding their customer base of these rallies. You would think these nationwide suppliers would support the 2A movement. Not a peep from any of them.

So, it appears to me, that if you're not active on this board or a few other 2A boards, you would have a hard time even knowing the rally was happening. There are a lot more casual shooters in the state versus "gun nuts".

How else can the word get out over this issue?

 

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3 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

you remind me of Lee at Gettysburg.....  pushing the center when He could not gain the advantage and his generals advised against it....fools march.

Actually, he was listening to his own troops and NOT his Generals.  So, he was undermined by the men beneath him.  Interesting, same thing happening here.

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12 hours ago, voyager9 said:

I’ve heard that Zeke and others have done a great job bringing the folks from here together with the Shotgun Shootouts.  I wonder if something like that could be expanded to bring out new or potential gun owners. Add in a hibachi and burgers. Let the guys plug the forum and once they’re in they’ll pick up the politics like the rest of us did. 

You have a wonderful idea!  Even though "picnicking" is "against the rules", I've seen others with fancy grills a-grillin' right on their tailgates.  I'm sure that NO ONE would bust chops IF we adopted the BSA "Leave NO Trace" formula of "Carry-In & Carry-Out", especially considering that hunting license sales have continued to decline and the resultant revenue loss will start to impact NJF&W budgets.  I'll help in any way I can, just ask!  Expanding the plea for attendance is best done on Facebook, something I'm rather good at.  So establish a Committee of "worker bees", figure-out a budget and what guests need to bring (besides chairs, folding tables, guns, birds & shells), pick a date (rain or shine) and start advertising since April is already half over :)   What you don't want to do is just announce a date & "let it happen by itself", cause you'll wind-up with another low-attendance Rally.  A well-organized meet & greet is easy to pull-off, and you may want to get a speaker there to draw a higher attendance since not everyone is a scattergun shooter :)   I can help in that regard as well.  GET BUSY & strike while the iron is HOT :) 

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1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

4) I get daily emails from many of the online suppliers (Palmetto, Cheaper than Dirt, Midway, Cabellas, Ammo suppliers, etc). I didn't get a single email from them reminding their customer base of these rallies. You would think these nationwide suppliers would support the 2A movement. Not a peep from any of them.

They had their hands tied.  New organization, virtually no cooperation with established national and state groups, poor communications so nobody knew who they would be backing or any logistics

If you were in charge of things at Cabella's or PSA, would you have asked millions to attend a rally you knew almost nothing about other than it was a 2A support thing sponsored by a militia?

I think NCCPA has the right idea, just no clue how to execute and awful branding.  They'd be better off running their own local operations and aligning with NRA or GOA.

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1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

I've been thinking about that. Getting the word out. Some questions/observations that I wonder about.

The rallies on Saturday were nationwide at all state capitols, not just a individual state thing like a few weeks ago.

1) I haven't been to the range in weeks, did any of the ranges have notices or posters put up advertising the rallies to anyone coming to the store or range to shoot?

2) Did any of the ranges or stores send out email notifications to their customer bases reminding them of the rallies? I didn't get any.

3) Since this was a nationwide effort, did any of the national organizations (NRA, GOA, etc) send out email notifications to their members reminding them? Only one I saw was from Oathkeepers.  I didn't get any others.

4) I get daily emails from many of the online suppliers (Palmetto, Cheaper than Dirt, Midway, Cabellas, Ammo suppliers, etc). I didn't get a single email from them reminding their customer base of these rallies. You would think these nationwide suppliers would support the 2A movement. Not a peep from any of them.

So, it appears to me, that if you're not active on this board or a few other 2A boards, you would have a hard time even knowing the rally was happening. There are a lot more casual shooters in the state versus "gun nuts".

How else can the word get out over this issue?

 

3 words : Piss poor planning.

ANJRPC Rally on March 26th had emails/websites/posters, emails from ranges/gun shops, etc.  NRA alert emails as well.

Saturday's rallies were a grassroots rally - a lot less publicity.  I spoke about it at my private range's membership meeting a week and a half before the rally.  Not 1 other member showed up.

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2 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

3 words : Piss poor planning.

ANJRPC Rally on March 26th had emails/websites/posters, emails from ranges/gun shops, etc.  NRA alert emails as well.

Saturday's rallies were a grassroots rally - a lot less publicity.  I spoke about it at my private range's membership meeting a week and a half before the rally.  Not 1 other member showed up.

Grass roots it was, but you know what at least they did care enough to set it up. After the last rally my club president posted at flyer up for this one at the club on the bulletin board. The day before I sent out a copy of the flyer on the club messaging system to see if anyone else was actually going. I had one guy text me, breaking my balls a bit about posting it to rile up the other members and then the guy had the balls to text me the next day and ask how it went, needless to say I ignored him and didn't respond. Didn't see anyone else from my club down there. I won't break balls about it because there was very little info on it to begin with and I probably went down more as a curiosity, since I'm much newer to this struggle than most of the other folks I've been around. Regardless of what ever everyone else thinks, for me it was a learning experience as much as anything. Not to mention a decent social experience.

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What I am seeing here is a lot of frustration.  We (and our constitution) are under attack and it seems like nobody, except a handful of people that the left will call "far right gun nuts", bothers to show up for something so incredibly important. 

Why is the silent majority so silent?  we need to ask ourselves some serious questions about why people aren't showing up.  First, the silent majority is chicken shit scared that they will loose their jobs and while they have all types of firearms, including AR15s, they are willing to give that up for economic security.

Hey, boss, did you see that picture of Albert in the paper (website) at the crazy republican trump lov'n neo nazi rally that supports school shootings?  Why, no, I didn't see it, isn't he the one on a prescription blood thinner because he's crazy?  Why, I do believe you are right boss, you should fire him and tell the police he shouldn't have guns because he looked at Jane funny last week.

That's how good people get chewed up and spat out by the liberal fucking machine in NJ.  So people have adopted a routine of keeping their heads down, mouths shut and being a good citizen with perfectly manicured lawns that doesn't make trouble.

So, the question is; how do we motivate that type of person to fight for their rights?  how do we make them feel empowered enough that they will come out of the shadows and into the light?  Well,for starters, we need to make them realize that they are being boiled alive, like the frog experiment, and that their ass is already in hot water. They need to understad that they have already lost a lot and what little is left will be gone if they don't stand up.

Taking things little by little over a long period of time is how politicians take things from people.  They have it down to a science (literally) about how much to take and how often to take it and when the time is right to exploit the sheep.  They take just enough so that the people will only grumble, not so much that they will panic or come out in the tens of thousands in protest. 

Before you know it, the silent majority has been pacified and silenced for good.

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