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Ray Ray

I didn't want to, but.......

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I HAD to go.  It was an awesome Saturday.  Perfect sunny day.  The beginning of Spring kinda day.  A day I could have spent with my beautiful wife and daughter at Liberty State Park, having a picnic.  But, I couldn't.  I had a job to do. I figured many here thought that way too.  But I was wrong.  There are probably 500 true active members on this forum, with maybe another 500 semi active.  And how many show up?  10, maybe 15.  You, YOU, did not do your job.  You took the easy way.  Stayed home.  Sat on the couch.  Doin nadda.  I get some people had to work.  Or were sick.   Or had plans. 

You people wonder why the left, Anti 2A crowd, are winning.  They show up, in numbers, with a mission.  

Get woke people.

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Both kids had soccer games in opposite directions and the lack of Organization didn't exactly excite me. However I would have gone over sitting home or going to park or Movies. Tough to preach commitment to a team to my kids and then have them not go to game.

Low turnout will backfire. I think rallies need to be planned 9 months in advance. 3 months to finalize permits and everything else and then 6 months to promote that date. Also should be on Saturday or Sunday morning. Throwing together quick rallies is counter productive. The other side will say see no one really cares.

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First I heard of today was after the last rally in Trenton on the 26th. Maybe it was mentioned places I did not see it, but that proves it failed to reach the intended audience.

I am thankful for everyone who helped organize the event and for the speakers. I am sure there was a huge amount that I do not know about behind the scenes.

But today felt like it was thrown together last minute, and the chaos was held at bay *just* long enough for it to pull together ok. I feel like the near total lack of organization was a huge turn off for many people here, which severely hurt the turnout potential for the event.

I kept questioning if there would even be anyone there, or if it would only hurt our cause. I believe there was a reporter, he asked if I was AP, but I only saw a few cameras that might have  been media. Maybe its a good thing, as this time would say "dozens show up to support gun rights".

So yeah, pretty disappointed, though not surprised.

The 9 months of planning post above? That. Exactly that. But wait a few months to start cause I don't much wanna go freeze my ass off again like the 26th, and 9 months is January.

Not meaning to bash anyone btw, because if I were in charge it woulda been me and maybe 3 other people twiddling our thumbs in Trenton instead of 500.

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No NJ2AS, NRA or ANJRPC speakers.  All fighting and arguing over God knows what.

Moms Demand Action?  On point with speakers

Coalition to stop gun violence?  Lining up to speak.

Us?  Crappy microphone. 

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

 I think rallies need to be planned 9 months in advance. 3 months to finalize permits and everything else and then 6 months to promote that date. Also should be on Saturday or Sunday morning. Throwing together quick rallies is counter productive. 

Anti Gunners quickly organized state wide protests within weeks of Parkland across NJ.

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You, YOU, did not do your job.  You took the easy way.  Stayed home.  Sat on the couch.  Doin nadda.  I get some people had to work.  Or were sick.   Or had plans.


I’ll take the first sentence... but the four following it definitely wasn’t my day (hasn’t been any of my days last week, nor the upcoming week). If it were, I’d have been there. Kept the last three sentences in my selective quote, as I understand your point there. I partly still feel guilty, even though I feel I had other things that took priority.

I brought the rally up to my boss the week I found out about it, and was going to let my fiancé take Hugo to the horse show while I brought Emma (would have had to take her to work, which would have been a slight pain). Wouldn’t have been too hard to do, especially if I got what I needed done by lunch. My boss asked me if it was today when I was talking with him about Sunday.

But I decided to be selfish. I worked (actually finished after the end of the rally), so I could help get jobs squared away today as opposed to tomorrow. I did it so I could have a technician to help me with our house, as her parents came up from SC for two weeks to help with the kitchen and floors. At a standstill until I do about two days of work, and being kind of forced to get it done tomorrow (a good chunk of it outside, so a beautiful rainy day to do it [emoji106]). If not, cabinets don’t get done... and everything backs up even further than it already is. Have to get what is planned done, as we are siding the house this summer (unsure if just her dad is coming up or both parents... probably the latter).

To be honest, I might have said the hell with it and went... probably screwing myself as not getting stuff done tomorrow that I need to be... if there was serious backing behind it. I get that if there is a chance of a decent rally, I probably should just have gone. But if I went and saw the numbers that have been reported, I would never go to another again (just knowing I gave priority for the rally, when something else should have taken priority; my fiancé’s family, my fiancé, and our house). The thread where it was pointed out people were said to be speaking, yet not invited, really pushed me to value my time/getting stuff I need to get done over the rally.

I’ll apologize for being selfish, but I would hope that if there is a next time, the planning would be something that gives confidence behind. I’m not going to say give it 9 months of planning... but when people are said to be speaking, I don’t want to see statements as it was news to them a few days before the rally. I don’t know what goes into planning an event like this, but hopefully groups would seek out help/offer help to get something big out there.
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Anti Gunners quickly organized state wide protests within weeks of Parkland across NJ.

They have money to hire paid protestors. That's the kind of money we need on our side.

 

They also had everything pre planned and ready to go for whenever the mass shooting happened.

 

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11 minutes ago, capt14k said:

They have money to hire paid protestors. That's the kind of money we need on our side.

They also had everything pre planned and ready to go for whenever the mass shooting happened.

While this is true, nonetheless, thousands of people rallied around NJ.  I seriously doubt the 13k people in Morristown were paid. 

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I think we'd all be surprised how many the opposition has on their payroll.  A couple years ago, I was at one of their manufactured rallys - when their bus was rolling thru New Brunswick and they were reading names of 'victims'.  Anyhow, they were reading names to *no one*, and the few who were there were wondering when they got paid.  (The complicit media played this as a 'major stop'...go figure)

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I think we'd all be surprised how many the opposition has on their payroll.  A couple years ago, I was at one of their manufactured rallys - when their bus was rolling thru New Brunswick and they were reading names of 'victims'.  Anyhow, they were reading names to *no one*, and the few who were there were wondering when they got paid.  (The complicit media played this as a 'major stop'...go figure)
It happens all the time. They post the "jobs" on Craigslist and Leftist Facebook Groups.

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Actually I did my job.

I went to work to make money to feed my family.  

I would take the time off to attend a rally if it was worth it.  However I don't feel like it is.  I also am one to believe that the rallies accomplish absolutely nothing.  The elected powers have already made up their mind and no rally from either side will change anything.  What will change their mind is if we, as a collective group, can get behind ONE candidate and get him/her into a position of power to change the way things are done in Trenton.  Then, we get another ONE candidate to do the same thing.  We use their tactic of incrementalism to change the way things are done.  Additionally we need to educate kids, at the schoolwide level, that guns are fun, increase focus, will get them outside and are to be respected.  Teach them the sporting side of shooting. A 22lr "PRS" style competition format would be amazing.  However it has to be a lot of schools involved, not just affluent ones.  As far as the "billionaire funding" argument, there are plenty of uber-wealthy gun owners that don't put up.  It would be nice if one or two would to help fund a grassroots endeavor.  Kids and backroom dealings are the keys.  Rallies...  not so much.  Not to me at least.  

I've said this before, after SH, there was a guy on here that publicly declared that he was going to take a politician's job.  Sent him a note and posted up and down this board.  He couldn't even collect enough signatures to get himself on the ballot.  That's why they feel they can be so bold.  They are generally confronted by empty promises and threats from us.  Last election, no seats turned.  Tell me exactly why they should listen to a bunch of folks in front of the statehouse again?  

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The anti-gunners have been well funded and organized for many many years. They are left leaning political groups that wait for a tragedy like Parkland to pounce on the opposition. A handful of Soros/Bloomfield funded groups along with an empowering media have created an extremely powerful force. They don't in-fight, they cooperate and support each other. They create a single point of contact for the general public, a single web sight, a single twitter, a single email group where people can sign up for free and allow the propaganda machine to disseminate its agenda .

Gun rights supporters have none of this. There is no national group or connection point. Every group we have are "paid membership" organizations - that limits the people that will sign up - we need a "sign up for free" place with "donations accepted". We need some wealthy supporters or groups (like Koch Bros) to fund it. But beware because anyone funding it will be brutally attacked as "not caring about the children" and be boycotted by the Soros/Bloomfield media. We need to keep "guns" and 2A out of the name - make it something like "Defend Our Rights" or "Defend Our Constitution". Make it more than just the 2nd - make it about ALL rights. The anti-gunners use emotional phrases like "save the children" and "never again" and then attack the 2A and guns in the details. It often seems like we have fallen into the "divide and conquer" stigma - and we have done it to ourselves. 

We need a national single point of contact (can't really be the NRA because the "left" has successfully tainted them). It needs to be supported by a person or group that isn't necessarily pro-gun - but pro-constitution. National spokespeople need to change the conversation from GUN rights to ALL rights. Defend ALL the amendments - the 2nd being just one of those rights. We need to redefine the term "common sense" gun laws to mean "better background checks and proper reporting to the authorities" from the current "more gun restrictions". We are letting the anti-gunners define the catch phrases.

So are the various pro 2A groups willing to put aside their egos and "need to lead" mentality for the greater good? Are they willing to cede their power for the greater cause? Will the divisions continue as each of these groups fight for the limited number of paying members? Will there be a person or group of people to rise up and pull us together? Will we learn that dividing ourselves will just let the "death by a thousand" cuts continue? I guess that remains to be seen. 

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I don't honestly believe that even 5,000 attending a 2A rally in New Jersey would make any difference at all. Our Democrat legislature is committed. And they don't pass these laws because Cease Fire NJ or Moms Demand Action have many organized speakers. Those groups just give cover and make it seem that what the legislature is doing is 'common sense' and has public approval.

Want a rally that would make a difference? After they pass the mag limit law, have 5,000 NJ gun owners mob Trenton waving their old 15-round magazines in the air. And make the police deal with them. That would make a difference.

If you could get 5,000 or more NJ gun owners to do that. I'm not betting on it.

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12 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

No NJ2AS, NRA or ANJRPC speakers.  All fighting and arguing over God knows what.

Moms Demand Action?  On point with speakers

Coalition to stop gun violence?  Lining up to speak.

Us?  Crappy microphone. 

Poor organization - they didn't line up the speakers properly.  ANJRPC Scott Bach?  He already had a prior commitment.  They didn't even make a concentrated effort about getting Anthony Collandro, CNJFO, and even SAW (Sandy).  I don't even know if they even approached Alexander Roubian of the NJ2AS.  This was also planned on the same day as 2 other big pro-2A events (Brian Aitken @ RTSP and the NJGOP summit in AC).  

 

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Waste of time...sad to say it.

 

Courts are the only ticket.....  to possibly win.

 

Your out numbered - out gunned - out financed - being beaten by professional radicals and surrounded by the anti's.

 

Stop wasting your time on protests.....

 

In any battle, know your forces that you have, know what you can achieve, pick the time and place of battle of your choosing and execute.

Read the art of war and apply it......

 

This foolishness emboldens them as they see weakness in the failed attempt to marshal forces...

 

@capt14k had said it best....  weak numbers is a foolish waste of time.

 

I did it at Trenton years ago.....  won't do it again....  lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits....

 

nothing else matters at this point and time....

 

NOTHING....imo

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2 hours ago, capt14k said:

It happens all the time. They post the "jobs" on Craigslist and Leftist Facebook Groups.

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Are these postings archived somewhere for all to see?

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Waste of time...sad to say it.

 

Courts are the only ticket.....  to possibly win.

 

Your out numbered - out gunned - out financed - being beaten by professional radicals and surrounded by the anti's.

 

Stop wasting your time on protests.....

 

In any battle, know your forces that you have, know what you can achieve, pick the time and place of battle of your choosing and execute.

Read the art of war and apply it......

 

This foolishness emboldens them as they see weakness in the failed attempt to marshal forces...

 

[mention=8404]capt14k[/mention] had said it best....  weak numbers is a foolish waste of time.

 

I did it at Trenton years ago.....  won't do it again....  lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits....

 

nothing else matters at this point and time....

 

NOTHING....imo

 

After being at last rally in person and seeing the numbers of this rally you are right. I change my previous statement. Forget the rallies. Waste of money and resources.

 

Unless we can guarantee 100,000+ no one is going to give a damn and it isn't going to change any law makers mind. Rallies with a couple hundred is self defeating.

 

 

Let's forget the rallies and focus on the big money donors. Once all the lawsuits are filed and all the politicians that can be bought are; then we can have a rally and hire protesters if need be to increase the numbers.

 

My offer still stands to any 2A group to solicit donations from possible big money donors.

 

 

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Are these postings archived somewhere for all to see?

 

Not sure if they are archived. Usually links are posted to the ads. Then after jobs are filled the posts are deleted. Try a Google search and you should find ads in regards to Charlottesville.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Paulie Buffo said:

...

We need a national single point of contact (can't really be the NRA because the "left" has successfully tainted them). It needs to be supported by a person or group that isn't necessarily pro-gun - but pro-constitution. National spokespeople need to change the conversation from GUN rights to ALL rights. Defend ALL the amendments - the 2nd being just one of those rights. We need to redefine the term "common sense" gun laws to mean "better background checks and proper reporting to the authorities" from the current "more gun restrictions". We are letting the anti-gunners define the catch phrases.

...

I find your ideas interesting, but I don't agree that the NRA has been "tainted", not beyond repair anyway. But, they have done a piss-poor job of PR. The NRA is the largest gun safety training organization in the country (perhaps the world?)... their training is focused on people using guns safely and responsibly for all kinds of perfectly decent purposes. Their programs develop responsible gun owners, including young people who go on to perform admirably as military members, LEOs not to mention national and Olympic champions. That same training helps people PROTECT themselves and other innocents upwards of hundreds of thousands of times a year. They simply need a re-branding campaign to focus on all that. And as I've argued all along, they ought to be doing a video series of ordinary Americans - white/black/brown, male/female, straight/gay, etc. - who have defended themselves with a gun. Because that's POWERFUL stuff that will resonate with most non-activist Americans (who are, after all, typically pretty reasonable and pragmatic).

Americans are also forgiving. Companies, CEOs, politicians come back from bad PR all the time. But, the NRA needs to get with the program and revamp their PR program.  Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent aren't going to cut it in the #metoo era.

I'm sorry I missed the event yesterday, but as others have pointed out... the low turnout is the results of an untested, non-mainstream group that lacks the name recognition to generate good turnout. It's nothing more than that. 

7 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

....  lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits....

The best thing the 2A groups can do right now is keep as much pressure (and flattery) on The Donald as possible in the hopes that that one or more liberal SCOTUS judges leave the role within the next months/years... and that he appoints (fingers crossed) pro-2A replacements.

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Let's not fight amongst ourselves.  Thank you to those who attended the rally yesterday.  For those who were unable to attend due to work and family obligations, we'll see you at some of the other events.

What IS important is for us, as individuals, to talk to people.  To open the eyes of the fence sitters.  To turn lambs into lions.

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39 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

Let's not fight amongst ourselves.  Thank you to those who attended the rally yesterday.  For those who were unable to attend due to work and family obligations, we'll see you at some of the other events.

What IS important is for us, as individuals, to talk to people.  To open the eyes of the fence sitters.  To turn lambs into lions.

Sage words. I find the pontification here nauseating.

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5 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Sage words. I find the pontification here nauseating.

That's a bit harsh, don't you think? I agree that people shouldn't "fight" or "attack" either other... but people can certainly express opinions. That's one of the purposes that forums serve, after all. And discussing what worked... what didn't.. and what could be better... is part of the process that leads to new, better ideas. Everything that happens in life starts with an idea, after all.

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

After being at last rally in person and seeing the numbers of this rally you are right. I change my previous statement. Forget the rallies. Waste of money and resources.

I realized this back in '13 when shit hit the fan post Sandy Hook, and hardly anybody cared.  Spoke to so many fellow gun owners, and nobody gave two fucks.  

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7 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

 

That's a bit harsh, don't you think? I agree that people shouldn't "fight" or "attack" either other... but people can certainly express opinions. That's one of the purposes that forums serve, after all. And discussing what worked... what didn't.. and what could be better... is part of the process that leads to new, better ideas. Everything that happens in life starts with an idea, after all.

Na, we opine too much here. Less talky, more worky. We will only have ourselves to blame.

And for the “ rally’s don’t work crowd”, why are they working for the left? Because we would not be discussing anything if theirs were not effective.

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