I didn't want to, but.......

[45Doll 5,873]

Yes, at this point in NJ we are certainly at least poached. The gas is still on under the pot, and the chefs in Trenton are looking forward to a fully cooked meal.

Generally the incremental game has worked so far. I'm trying to see ahead and suppose what event, circumstance or law might actually propel LARGE numbers of firearms owners to actually resist what's being done to them. Peacefully I hope. Perhaps civilly disobedient as well. You know, get in their faces like the left does. I don't know. Oregon might provide a good lab experiment with their ballot initiatives. (Although they may not make it on this year.)

My wife and I will be at the PA 2A rally April 30 in Harrisburg. I will report back as best I can. Compare and contrast with NJ if possible. I have pushed most of my gun chips across the Delaware, although we are still anchored in NJ.

[bhunted 887]

Chewin chewin chewin.... keep on chewing! Keep ignoring everything except what you say. Like broken records. Hope yaz choke on a belt buckle when you are trying to digest the members here.

I said it before but I’ll summarize with just a tad of aggravation.

You want this shit to work? Stop fooking blaming people here. We are a minority. Want more? Go fooking knocking and wake up the uninformed masses. You keep pissing on people here. Keep up the great work. I can see it works well. [emoji848]
Case closed! [emoji35]


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[45Doll 5,873]

If you were referring to me, you're off the deep end.

I don't blame, and have never 'blamed', anyone on this or any other forum for anything. Everyone has to do what they think is right, and appropriate. As best they can.

My zipper has never dropped.

[Scorpio64 5,147]

1 hour ago, 45Doll said:

Generally the incremental game has worked so far. I'm trying to see ahead and suppose what event, circumstance or law might actually propel LARGE numbers of firearms owners to actually resist what's being done to them

I'll tell ya what will happen.  20% will turn in their guns/mags or register ie comply.  The rest will do nothing, just like they did when NJ decided to keep the AWB.

People don't realize how serious the situation is.  If they classify a detachable mag and 1 more feature as mil features and tack it on to the awb, then the AR15 is done for because the only remaining feature is the pistol grip.  Basically, they are eliminating the non military features to shove it down our throats.  Pistil grips are not exclusive to the AR15 and if they extend the pistol grip ban, even if it is part of a one piece wood stock, then ALL semi autos are done for.

[bhunted 887]

If you were referring to me, you're off the deep end.
I don't blame, and have never 'blamed', anyone on this or any other forum for anything. Everyone has to do what they think is right, and appropriate. As best they can.
My zipper has never dropped.

Never said it was you. I didn’t quote anyone. It is directed at the constant chewing on our own.


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[Scorpio64 5,147]

58 minutes ago, bhunted said:

Never said it was you. I didn’t quote anyone. It is directed at the constant chewing on our own.

This isn't chewing on our own.  It's just the facts, whether we like them or not, and they have to be faced and dealt with if we are going to come up with an appropriate strategy to get people involved.  Not speaking up because it makes people feel uncomfortable is a mistake millions of good Germans (the silent majority) made in 1939.

[voyager9 3,433]

The silent majority doesnt have to mean uninvolved.  As posted maybe their worries about their jobs. Maybe they’re just introverts who don’t want to be in the paper or on tv. Maybe they just don’t have time. 

Thst doesn’t mean they can’t do something for the effort. It doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do things in smaller, less public groups. The problem those smaller things don’t get the visibility so they may not know. That why I was thinking of smaller social things that tangentially involve advocacy. 

Get them aware, make social connections, then help organize. 

[Zeke 5,504]

2 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

This isn't chewing on our own.  It's just the facts, whether we like them or not, and they have to be faced and dealt with if we are going to come up with an appropriate strategy to get people involved.  Not speaking up because it makes people feel uncomfortable is a mistake millions of good Germans (the silent majority) made in 1939.

Well said. We are not winning. But we are whining and opining here ad nauseum.

 

[45Doll 5,873]

17 minutes ago, bhunted said:

Never said it was you. I didn’t quote anyone. It is directed at the constant chewing on our own.


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OK, fine. That's why I used the word 'If'. Case closed.

I do take your point about chewing on our own. I would speculate that sometimes if we chew on our own, it's because we can't chew on the ones we would like. The ones that deserve it.

[voyager9 3,433]

I’m curious. If you asked a random first-poster from the Welcome section to read this thread, do you think they’d want to get involved?

[Zeke 5,504]

1 hour ago, 45Doll said:

Yes, at this point in NJ we are certainly at least poached. The gas is still on under the pot, and the chefs in Trenton are looking forward to a fully cooked meal.

Generally the incremental game has worked so far. I'm trying to see ahead and suppose what event, circumstance or law might actually propel LARGE numbers of firearms owners to actually resist what's being done to them. Peacefully I hope. Perhaps civilly disobedient as well. You know, get in their faces like the left does. I don't know. Oregon might provide a good lab experiment with their ballot initiatives. (Although they may not make it on this year.)

My wife and I will be at the PA 2A rally April 30 in Harrisburg. I will report back as best I can. Compare and contrast with NJ if possible. I have pushed most of my gun chips across the Delaware, although we are still anchored in NJ.

I don’t know if we will realize the spark. Not here anyway. I do know the endgame.. it’s obvious. And we are not winning 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

On 4/14/2018 at 7:13 PM, Ray Ray said:

I HAD to go.  It was an awesome Saturday.  Perfect sunny day.  The beginning of Spring kinda day.  A day I could have spent...

I felt like I had to go as well.  I couldn't make it to the last one, so I was feeling kind of guilty, relying on others to carry water for me.  But I know we all have our own situations and priorities, so I don't begrudge anyone who didn't make it.

I was a little disappointed with the turnout, but as others have noted, the actual number of people to show up is relatively unimportant.  if we had 250, as reported in the news article (a generous estimate, I believe), or 1000, I don't think it would have made any difference.  There was no way we were getting the thousands that showed up for the Parkland brats. 

Our great strength in the past as gun rights advocates is that we have more at stake than the other side, and we are more likely to be one issue voters, even if we suffer from a large degree of apathy.  Fortunately for us, after every tragedy, the uproar for legislators to "do something" quickly subsides.  I couldn't find a single opinion piece or letter in The Bergen Record yesterday on the subject.  Of course, we have no way to know what will happen in November, but we can only hope that gun owners are just as motivated to come out and vote as is the other side, if not even more so. 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

1 minute ago, voyager9 said:

I’m curious. If you asked a random first-poster from the Welcome section to read this thread, do you think they’d want to get involved?

Depends on their individual values I’d suspect. Some people see a travesty of justice, some see “ not an undue burden “.

What do you see?

[Scorpio64 5,147]

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

I’m curious. If you asked a random first-poster from the Welcome section to read this thread, do you think they’d want to get involved?

Random first posters have their own minds and will make them up when they join.  Some will jump in, many will lurk and a few will just split.  So what, these discussions, no mater how unpalatable they are, must happen or we will never get anywhere.  We need to address this issue like mature rational adults.  If it makes people feel uncomfortable for not being active sooner or at all, then so be it.  It means they have a conscience and that's a good sign.

[voyager9 3,433]

12 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Depends on their individual values I’d suspect. Some people see a travesty of justice, some see “ not an undue burden “.

What do you see?

Do you think they’d understand that travesty and jump in with both feet even though they only came by this forum because they were looking for ammo, or a prospective new owner curious about the process?   I’m sure there are some. I’m betting there would be more that would be scared away.  Boiling lobsters is an analogy used to describe the gun laws but it also applies to finding adopters and building our numbers too.  Sometimes you have to highlight the fun and social, aspects and use that as a platform to convince someone to be more politically active. 

[Scorpio64 5,147]

59 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Do you think they’d understand that travesty and jump in with both feet even though they only came by this forum because they were looking for ammo, or a prospective new owner curious about the process?   I’m sure there are some. I’m betting there would be more that would be scared away.  Boiling lobsters is an analogy used to describe the gun laws but it also applies to finding adopters and building our numbers too.  Sometimes you have to highlight the fun and social, aspects and use that as a platform to convince someone to be more politically active. 

If all they are here for is ammo prices or what gun to buy, they won't even be paying attention to threads like this.

If they are here to find out what their roll is in the future of 2A in NJ, then they need to see the ugly truths.  You can't cure an infection by not looking at it.

[Zeke 5,504]

7 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Do you think they’d understand that travesty and jump in with both feet even though they only came by this forum because they were looking for ammo, or a prospective new owner curious about the process?   I’m sure there are some. I’m betting there would be more that would be scared away.  Boiling lobsters is an analogy used to describe the gun laws but it also applies to finding adopters and building our numbers too.  Sometimes you have to highlight the fun and social, aspects and use that as a platform to convince someone to be more politically active. 

When it’s all gone, no fun..I guess unless you’re into muskets.

[voyager9 3,433]

5 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

If all they are here for is ammo prices or what gun to buy, they won't even be paying attention to threads like this.

If they are here to find out what their roll is in the future of 2A in NJ, then they need to see the ugly truths.  You can't cure an infection by not looking at it.

I believe there may be untapped potential in the first group if you can keep them here long enough for them to learn the true situation and what their role might be. 

[Zeke 5,504]

I see what you are getting at @voyager9. It’s exactly why I’m not organizing anything on forum. Because everyone is an expert, but they don’t work. I’m my own boss. Join me and help, or don’t join me.

Contructive criticism is a dish best served while working hand in hand to fix the problem. 

[bhunted 887]

As for chewing on our own. You realize that when you feel like people are constantly pissing down your neck, a time comes when they will extend the middle finger in your direction and say screw you.
It happens all too often.... Why do you think groups cant get along?

You want to chew on something, have the balls to name people instead of alienating the whole group! Hiding behind screens is bullshit!

When the silent are partaking, they can easily feel slighted. You will not gain ground. You will lose it each and every time.



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[capt14k 2,052]

As for chewing on our own. You realize that when you feel like people are constantly pissing down your neck, a time comes when they will extend the middle finger in your direction and say screw you.
It happens all too often.... Why do you think groups cant get along?

You want to chew on something, have the balls to name people instead of alienating the whole group! Hiding behind screens is bullshit!

When the silent are partaking, they can easily feel slighted. You will not gain ground. You will lose it each and every time.



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I agree the passive agressive pussy footing will make many think it is directed towards them when it may not even be. Someone wants to call someone out be man enough to reference themc directly.

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[Sevenshot 98]

.

[Paulie Buffo 17]

It's easy for the anti-gunners to rally because they have emotion on their side - kids were savagely shot in a school. I think all of us can understand why emotions run high. Whether they are right in attacking "guns" and the NRA does not matter. They run on pure emotion and that emotional anger drives them to rally and protest. 

Now on this side - its hard to be emotional over someone preventing a robbery, rape or murder. I'm not saying it's not important - but good things just don't emote the same feeling as bad things. I understand that self defense and the right to bear arms is extremely important to myself and others here - yet the general public does not understand the way we feel, but they  do understand murdered children - and the "negative emotion" is very hard to fight against.

If we disagree with anti-gunners we are called "insensitive", when we rally for our rights we are called "insensitive", when we proudly wear 2A/NRA hats and shirts we are called "insensitive", if we complain about idiotic gun restrictions we are called "insensitive", seems like is we just breathe we are called "insensitive" (I'm not sure but from reading these blogs it seems Zeke is pretty sensitive) . 

Anyway, I believe we here care more than most people about wanting safe schools and a safer society. We despise gun violence more than anyone - because when gun violence happens WE lose our rights and we are called "insensitive".

[Smokin .50 1,907]

WHEN WE'RE ALL DONE PISSING DOWN EACH OTHER'S BACKS, THERE'S STILL PATRIOT SHIT THAT NEEDS DONE!

A forum is a great resource UNTIL ____________(fill-in the blank)!  

I'm planning a Sporting Clays fundraiser today that will expose Fudds to the Second Amendment scene.  Anyone HERE interested in doing something where some one-on-one interaction can happen?  Anyone wanna be a sponsor?  A participant?  Both?  

I feel the frustration, I really do!  Now take that misplaced ENERGY & DIRECT IT AT THE ENEMY and NOT each other!

Rosey

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

2 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

....  Anyone HERE interested in doing something where some one-on-one interaction can happen?  Anyone wanna be a sponsor?  A participant?  Both?  ...

Both.  Rosey, I'll PM you my info - I'm a CNJFO member.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

33 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

A forum is a great resource UNTIL our own members turn and sell us out!

 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

This battle was lost before it even started - you want to win future battles - you need to engage person to person to swell the ranks.

 

The passivity over the years in the state has yielded this moment - it is a generational war and we are losing.

 

How do you turn it around?  Ask yourself this - when was the last time you introduced someone to shooting?  When was the last time you wore your 'colors' without worry of being labeled or looked down upon?  When was the last time you engaged someone who was talking out their kiester to set them straight?  If you haven't done one or any of these things, your attendance at a rally means nothing.

@Smokin .50 has the correct idea and is engaging where it matters - from the ground up.  While others are fighting a higher tier battle.

Yes we bitch we moan - some want it their way or the highway - you do know who you are - Zeke comes to mind initially.The losses we are experiencing today *ARE* the direct result of the apathy of those that came before us to engage at every level and NOT increasing the numbers as needed.  This is solely a numbers game and we do not have the depth in the bench currently to play long ball against the heavy hitters.  Best we try to play smart - while looking to the minors.

 

 

[Rob0115 1,105]

2 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

WHEN WE'RE ALL DONE PISSING DOWN EACH OTHER'S BACKS, THERE'S STILL PATRIOT SHIT THAT NEEDS DONE!

A forum is a great resource UNTIL ____________(fill-in the blank)!  

I'm planning a Sporting Clays fundraiser today that will expose Fudds to the Second Amendment scene.  Anyone HERE interested in doing something where some one-on-one interaction can happen?  Anyone wanna be a sponsor?  A participant?  Both?  

I feel the frustration, I really do!  Now take that misplaced ENERGY & DIRECT IT AT THE ENEMY and NOT each other!

Rosey

I can’t wait to read the details.  If I can at all get there I will.  

[BobA 1,235]

5 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

WHEN WE'RE ALL DONE PISSING DOWN EACH OTHER'S BACKS, THERE'S STILL PATRIOT SHIT THAT NEEDS DONE!

A forum is a great resource UNTIL ____________(fill-in the blank)!  

I'm planning a Sporting Clays fundraiser today that will expose Fudds to the Second Amendment scene.  Anyone HERE interested in doing something where some one-on-one interaction can happen?  Anyone wanna be a sponsor?  A participant?  Both?  

I feel the frustration, I really do!  Now take that misplaced ENERGY & DIRECT IT AT THE ENEMY and NOT each other!

Rosey

I too will be very interested in hearing the particulars for participation please. 

[Scorpio64 5,147]

6 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

the direct result of the apathy of those that came before us to engage at every level and NOT increasing the numbers as needed.

I don't think apathy is the sole reason people are not showing up or getting involved.  There is plenty of apathy out there, but I think the silent majority is not apathetic at all,

I think there are a multitude of reasons people with a vested interest are not getting involved.  We just need to nail those reasons down.  In sales, the way you make a deal is by overcoming objections.  Price too high, quality not good, wrong color, too heavy, there are a million ways a deal can fall through.  Successful salesmen are successful because they know how to overcome objections. 

We need to engage people and find out why they are not going to rallies, writing e-mails to  elected officials and so on.  More than half the people I know that have guns don't even shoot them on a regular basis.  It's an uphill battle and we need soldiers who are also diplomats.