It's tough to buy a gun in New Jersey. So where do all the guns used in crimes come from?

[Sniper 5,354]

New Jersey's gun laws make it one of the hardest states in which to buy a weapon. So where do most of the guns used in crimes here come from?

States like Pennsylvania, Virginia, South Carolina and Florida.

Seventy-five percent of traceable guns recovered by authorities in New Jersey are purchased in states with weaker gun laws, according to an analysis by The Record and NorthJersey.com of federal firearms trace data and a gun-law score card published by the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

The analysis bolsters a claim by Gov. Phil Murphy in recent weeks that “our guns laws are only as good as those in the states around us."

Between 2012 and 2016, meanwhile, 40 percent of guns recovered in New Jersey came from states with laxer gun laws along the Interstate 95 corridor south of New Jersey — a popular route for gun trafficking that has come to be known as the Iron Pipeline.

In comparison, relatively few recovered guns, or less than 3 percent, originated in New York, which shares New Jersey’s strict approach to gun regulation. Both states require background checks for all gun purchases and ban many so-called assault weapons, among other restrictions.

Those figures also give credence to another of Murphy’s claims: that more than four of every five “crime guns” recovered in New Jersey come from outside its borders.

https://www.app.com/story/news/new-jersey/2018/04/16/nj-new-jersey-where-do-guns-used-crimes-come/503115002/

(But law abiding gun owners in the state are getting penalized for criminals bringing in guns from out of state to commit crimes)

 

[Sniper 5,354]

There's a lot more at the article link, I only posted some Cliff notes.

This article should be emailed to every Senate member voting today on the 6 new gun bills. It proves that the law abiding residents AREN'T the issue.

All the 2A legal guys should be using this information to bombard Murphy and shove this down his throat and up his ass (not that it will change his twisted mind).

Any NJ legislator who still supports these new gun bills should be immediately recalled and removed from office for not honoring their oath to protect the constitution.

[GunsnFreedom 245]

This is what the State is using to try to push neighboring states to change their laws.

NJ and Murphy are blaming PA and other nearby states (as well as a few further away) for all of NJ's gun crime.  Not realizing that it's not an inanimate object committing the crime, but NJ criminals.

[9X19 125]

This ^

[Albanian 121]

No it has nothing to do with awful policy in NJ, it’s the fault of states with more freedom! Everyone should be in chains like us!

[9X19 125]

7 minutes ago, Albanian said:

No it has nothing to do with awful policy in NJ, it’s the fault of states with more freedom! Everyone should be in chains like us!

God help us all if that was the case.

[sakkas 5]

The real problem is the no good rotten democrats that run this shit state!

[voyager9 2,821]

This was talked about in the pending travel-ban thread.  

NJ is still the biggest single source of recovered firearms. Sure if you look at he totals most recovered firearms come from out of state but that’s a false narrative. The “time-to-crime” was an average of 3 years, so a pretty long time. They weren’t bought via a straw purchase or shady dealer, trucked here, and used in a crime.  Some of those were legally owned when someone moved in state and then stollen. Some illegally bought out of state and bounced around for years.  

The whole “from states with weaker laws” is BS too.  NJ is close to the list for strong laws so 45/50th are going to come from states with weaker laws... a form of survivors bias. 

[JimB1 485]

14 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Seventy-five percent of traceable guns

Key phrase in the report. If 40% of guns used in crimes are found to be from other states and that is 75% of traceable guns used in crimes. What they are actually saying that they only know where 53.3% of guns used in crimes are from. 46.7 % are untraceable so they have no idea where they are from. So potentially more then half are from in NJ. (I think I did that math right  )

That means they have no idea what percentage is actually from out of state. What other report can have a margin of error of 46.7% and still be taken seriously? That is called lies, damn lies and statistics. 

-Jim

[mikelets456 75]

Oh good God, these articles are such such Bs. How are they getting illegal guns in Mexico? Heck, all of South America? PA has the same handgun laws as NJ, you can not do a FTF transfer without a background check, it's also a federal felony to transfer a pistol across state lines without an FFL. So there's already laws in place. The most damming evidence is the illegal cycle of guns is 11 years from purchase date... Meaning, there's an 11 year cycle before they show up on the black market so they're not buying guns then running them to NJ. These guns are illegal and come from all locations... Stolen from police, stolen from homes, etc. All guns that make their rounds illegally are illegal and we have numerous laws against this... Just another way to blame honest gun owners and you guys are believing this bs. 

[Howard 537]

Just more proof our elected officials are fools.  They seem to not understand the 80/20 rule of life.  If 20% of something causes 80% of your problems then that is what you spend money on and go after.  In this case they are claiming that the gun crime problem is caused by 80% of more by guns from out of state.  IF true, and it probably is, then you spend your limited resources going after that problem NOT going after legal gun owners with tighter laws that are already followed by legal honest people.  Their approach is akin to passing tough new MPG regulations on small hybrid cars because they have a problem with over the road tractor trailers using too much fuel.

[redwings9 5]

Its a felony to straw purchase and move them to a prohibited person..... who  then obtain these firearms from a cleared source they then use them to  commit another felony and then in these cases sited in the research are recovered.... . Take a quess how many prosecutions occur as a result of this activity ie the straw purchase......  Try finding this data.....Crickets..... This does not fit the narrative they want.

[Old Glock guy 819]

16 hours ago, sakkas said:

The real problem is the no good rotten democrats that run this shit state!

Well, that and the people who keep voting for them. 

[AlDente67 558]

Interesting show on cable called Underground, or some such.  The "ghost guns" are made by backwood (jungle) guys in the Phillipines.  One by one, forged in a tent, tested once, then sold off.  Price for the gun is around $200 or so.  Mule takes it to the city via motorbike and unloads for double that.  Shippers buy them up and send by cargo to the west coast.  Price again doubles.  Now you have unmarked pistols (mainly) going out on the street where a banger buys a few, does a few crimes, then dumps the item to lesser bangers for a steep discount.

By now, the pistol has been used enough to trace the ballistics by LE, so the bottom guys in the US are taking a serious risk.  Where they go from there is anyones guess.

 

Or, they do straw buys and route up the turnpike to various buyers in Camden, Trenton, points north.  Very interesting hour of TV.  Note the guys back in the jungle take a huge risk testing them before first sale.  They seem to be pretty good smiths, as few are missing hands or faces.

 

Eventually they wind up in the river, as too hot to carry, even for the lowest street banger.

[MartyZ 569]

This has everything to do with NJ laws and policies, but not how the dumbocrats spin it. Sure, these guns might come from other states, but that because criminals from other states are migrating to NJ, where the sheep are. Why would a criminal from PA want to rob a PA resident, when there is a good chance the victim will shoot back. No, all the criminals from free states are coming to NJ, where they know they will have free reign with little to no opposition from their victims!!!

[Bushmaster1313 0]

Comrade

Perfect gun laws passed by Glorious Legislature prevent all crime in Garden state 

[james.alan.18041 6]

That's what I hate about statistics. You can essentially skew the numbers to tell any story you want them to…


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[45Doll 2,551]

On 4/16/2018 at 10:39 AM, GunsnFreedom said:

This is what the State is using to try to push neighboring states to change their laws.

NJ and Murphy are blaming PA and other nearby states (as well as a few further away) for all of NJ's gun crime.  Not realizing Refusing to admit that it's not an inanimate object committing the crime, but NJ criminals.

I agree, although I think this version is somewhat more accurate.

[BobA 1,233]

On 4/17/2018 at 2:23 PM, Old Glock guy said:

Well, that and the people who keep voting for them. 

Well, that and the people who keep not voting.

 

Bad politicians are elected by good people who don't vote. 

[capt14k 2,043]

There's a lot more at the article link, I only posted some Cliff notes.
This article should be emailed to every Senate member voting today on the 6 new gun bills. It proves that the law abiding residents AREN'T the issue.
All the 2A legal guys should be using this information to bombard Murphy and shove this down his throat and up his ass (not that it will change his twisted mind).
Any NJ legislator who still supports these new gun bills should be immediately recalled and removed from office for not honoring their oath to protect the constitution.

Actually the stats you posted would only hurt our efforts. They will say see NJ gun laws work. Now we need to get to the truth behind the numbers. I believe those stats only count the guns they were able to trace. Which means the ones that came in with the drug shipments across our borders are not included.


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[capt14k 2,043]

Key phrase in the report. If 40% of guns used in crimes are found to be from other states and that is 75% of traceable guns used in crimes. What they are actually saying that they only know where 53.3% of guns used in crimes are from. 46.7 % are untraceable so they have no idea where they are from. So potentially more then half are from in NJ. (I think I did that math right [emoji6] )
That means they have no idea what percentage is actually from out of state. What other report can have a margin of error of 46.7% and still be taken seriously? That is called lies, damn lies and statistics. 
-Jim

Now those numbers seem more realistic. So the total percentage of guns coming from other states drops in half when all firearms are factored in (traceable and untraceable). The untraceable comes in with the drug shipments.


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[capt14k 2,043]

Oh good God, these articles are such such Bs. How are they getting illegal guns in Mexico? Heck, all of South America? PA has the same handgun laws as NJ, you can not do a FTF transfer without a background check, it's also a federal felony to transfer a pistol across state lines without an FFL. So there's already laws in place. The most damming evidence is the illegal cycle of guns is 11 years from purchase date... Meaning, there's an 11 year cycle before they show up on the black market so they're not buying guns then running them to NJ. These guns are illegal and come from all locations... Stolen from police, stolen from homes, etc. All guns that make their rounds illegally are illegal and we have numerous laws against this... Just another way to blame honest gun owners and you guys are believing this bs. 

Besides our government. Mexican Cartels get their firearms from Colombian Cartels with the cocoa paste and from Ndrangheta with the opium they traffic to them. With large shipments of illegal drugs comes large shipments of firearms.


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[slickskin 11]

If Governor murphy is saying most guns used in gun crime come from other states than that's not really helping his case. But I do understand people from other states can't legally sell Nj residents a gun unless they have the FPID card and a permit if it's a handgun and the gun would have to meet NJ standards so are they saying they are getting them from a black market or something?

[Mrs. Peel 5,673]

43 minutes ago, slickskin said:

If Governor murphy is saying most guns used in gun crime come from other states than that's not really helping his case. But I do understand people from other states can't legally sell Nj residents a gun unless they have the FPID card and a permit if it's a handgun and the gun would have to meet NJ standards so are they saying they are getting them from a black market or something?

Large studies (US DOJ, university studies, etc.) that look at the "background" of people who commit gun crimes regularly find HUGE percentages of them are ex-felons. (70-90 percent is the usual spread across studies - and btw, about half of those felons are still on parole when they commit the gun crime). The next big chunk of the pie aren't legal gun owners, but aren't ex-felons either (in other words, people who may have a history of misdemeanors, or who stole the gun, etc.) Then there's a very tiny percentage of rogue cops... and the smallest percentage of all is the non-LEO legal gun owners, who comprise less than 1 percent of gun crimes.

And once you visualize that "pie chart" in your head, it's very easy to understand why the previous Assault Weapons Ban had NO discernable impact on gun crime... and why this latest list of gun laws about to be passed in NJ will also have NO impact on gun crime. Passing laws that legal gun owners will follow has no impact on crime. The type of gun, the size of the mag, where it was purchased, etc., etc. - all entirely irrelevant if in the hands of the law-abiding. They're going after the crowd the LEAST likely to commit a crime. What sense does that make? None.

[slickskin 11]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Large studies (US DOJ, university studies, etc.) that look at the "background" of people who commit gun crimes regularly find HUGE percentages of them are ex-felons. (70-90 percent is the usual spread across studies - and btw, about half of those felons are still on parole when they commit the gun crime). The next big chunk of the pie aren't legal gun owners, but aren't ex-felons either (in other words, people who may have a history of misdemeanors, or who stole the gun, etc.) Then there's a very tiny percentage of rogue cops... and the smallest percentage of all is the non-LEO legal gun owners, who comprise less than 1 percent of gun crimes.

And once you visualize that "pie chart" in your head, it's very easy to understand why the previous Assault Weapons Ban had NO discernable impact on gun crime... and why this latest list of gun laws about to be passed in NJ will also have NO impact on gun crime. Passing laws that legal gun owners will follow has no impact on crime. The type of gun, the size of the mag, where it was purchased, etc., etc. - all entirely irrelevant if in the hands of the law-abiding. They're going after the crowd the LEAST likely to commit a crime. What sense does that make? None.

I'm fine with background checks prohibiting ex-felons from buying weapons. They did something bad and were convicted of it. Therefore they are a high risk and maybe deserve to lose that right. I'm just talking about people with restraining orders against them.

And about these new guns laws, honestly I have no idea if it will make a difference or not. It does seem that mass shootings are more prevalent in states with looser restrictions and none on high capacity magazines. So I can be objective. I was just never a fan of reducing freedom in favor of security.

[capt14k 2,043]

If Governor murphy is saying most guns used in gun crime come from other states than that's not really helping his case. But I do understand people from other states can't legally sell Nj residents a gun unless they have the FPID card and a permit if it's a handgun and the gun would have to meet NJ standards so are they saying they are getting them from a black market or something?

Huh? Federal Law prevents people in other states from selling NJ residents or any residents between two states a handgun unless it is transferred through a FFL01 In the buyer’s state or the buyer has a FFL03 and said handgun is C&R eligible.


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I'm fine with background checks prohibiting ex-felons from buying weapons. They did something bad and were convicted of it. Therefore they are a high risk and maybe deserve to lose that right. I'm just talking about people with restraining orders against them.
And about these new guns laws, honestly I have no idea if it will make a difference or not. It does seem that mass shootings are more prevalent in states with looser restrictions and none on high capacity magazines. So I can be objective. I was just never a fan of reducing freedom in favor of security.

All background checks are wrong and an infringement. Dangerous felons should not be part of free society. Either they paid their debt to society and are reformed, or they should remain in prison away from free society.


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[gleninjersey 1,405]

The problem isn't "surrounding state's with lax gun laws". The problem is criminals.  Period.

For anyone who tries to use this arguement simply ask them, "Which states with lax heroin laws are responsible for the heroin epidemic in NJ?"

Peoole try to use the same arguement for the vilonce in Chicago.  If the problem is "lax gun laws in bordering states" than how is the crime or violence level in those "lax states" compared to NJ or Chicago?  It's lower!

So the areas with 'lax gun laws" have lower crime and violence than Chicago or NJ but they are the problem? Mmmmmm, no.  The criminals in Chicago and NJ are the problem.

[gleninjersey 1,405]

8 hours ago, slickskin said:

And about these new guns laws, honestly I have no idea if it will make a difference or not. It does seem that mass shootings are more prevalent in states with looser restrictions and none on high capacity magazines. So I can be objective. I was just never a fan of reducing freedom in favor of security.

Florida, Virginia Tech and I believe the CA shooter all used 10 round msgs.  Newton killer murdered his mother and stole her guns.  Vegas shooter passed every background check for every purchase.  

How many mass killings and school shootings were there before the instant background check existed.  Let me give you a hint.  A lot less.

The AR platform has been around for close to 60 years.  Why were they not used in school shootings & mass shooting up until the last 20 years ago? 

Full auto used to be 100% legal not too long ago (1986).  How many mass shootings were done with full auto rifles?  None that I'm aware of.

The problem isn't the guns or "large mags".   

[capt14k 2,043]

Florida, Virginia Tech and I believe the CA shooter all used 10 round msgs.  Newton killer murdered his mother and stole her guns.  Vegas shooter passed every background check for every purchase.  
How many mass killings and school shootings were there before the instant background check existed.  Let me give you a hint.  A lot less.
The AR platform has been around for close to 60 years.  Why were they not used in school shootings & mass shooting up until the last 20 years ago? 
Full auto used to be 100% legal not too long ago (1986).  How many mass shootings were done with full auto rifles?  None that I'm aware of.
The problem isn't the guns or "large mags".   

I hate to give anything to the other side but McDonald's Massacre was full auto. One of the only ones, but they used it to take away full auto while the NRA did nothing to stop it.

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[Bob2222 260]

2 hours ago, gleninjersey said:

Full auto used to be 100% legal not too long ago (1986). 

Full auto IS 100% legal in many (if not most) US states in 2018!

The NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934) levied a $200 tax (which was a lot of money at the time) on the manufacture or sale of machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.

So $200, requires a background check, etc. and like anything that might be fun in New Jersey, don't even think about it here.

Legal in PA, that state just across the river and visible from the NJ Capitol building in Trenton.

What the Reagan era bill (Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 - FOPA) did was prohibit the sale of NEWLY MANUFACTURED fully-automatic firearms to the public (thereby making legally owned ones with paperwork an excellent investment).