silverado427 10,682 Posted May 1, 2018 Well our girl Katie Park the reporter finally got her story out. https://www.app.com/story/news/politics/new-jersey/2018/05/01/how-buy-gun-nj-new-jersey-permit-laws/448221002/ 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted May 1, 2018 Not bad, overall. A fairly accurate depiction of the process. Of course the one-gun-every-90-days bit was wrong, and I would have liked to see mention of how far many PD's deviate from the proscribed process in order to throw up additional roadblocks. I would also like to have seen the CCW numbers parsed a bit, to highlight that those CCW permits are NOT going to Joe and Jane Citizen. Kudos to Rosie and Anthony for their contributions to the story, and to Katie for coming to this forum to ask questions. 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1563621 388 Posted May 1, 2018 Well written and truthful. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 692 Posted May 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, 1563621 said: Well written and truthful. Yes and no. I like the article, it is truthful and lacks opinion. But it also lacks some facts. In a few places she mentions how states with looser gun laws like PA have higher gun related deaths, but no where does she mention what the crime rate in these states are overall, and no where does she mention whether gun related death number in stricter states like NY and NJ are offset by higher death rates by other weapons such as knives, bats, axes, etc... And the suicide stats, how do suicides by gun compare sleeping pills, slit wrists, or dives off a building? If she uses death rate stats by guns then she should compare them to death rates by other means. I mean look at England, their gun related deaths rates are pretty low, but now look at their knife related death rates. You can't even buy a butter knife in England anymore without a psych evaluation! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,157 Posted May 1, 2018 I think this is about as fair and well-written an article as you'll get from a journalist... which, in some sense, is shocking to see in a NJ newspaper. I think Katie hit it out of the "Park". Frankly, I hope this raises her curiosity and makes her interested in writing more articles. We need "reasonable" coverage of these issues. Most of the articles I've seen have been hack jobs. As far as some of the finer points you may disagree with... that's your cue to write in and comment on the article and bring out other relevant facts and statistics. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted May 1, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said: I think this is about as fair and well-written an article as you'll get from a journalist... Absolutely. Yes, some details were wrong but I'm not going to go hard on Ms Parker since even a lot of gun owners get them wrong. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted May 1, 2018 49 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said: I think this is about as fair and well-written an article as you'll get from a journalist... which, in some sense, is shocking to see in a NJ newspaper. I agree. She went heavy on facts and data, plus added a bunch of personal interviews. Overall, a very unbiased article and very good. This was very surprising, considering the hard Left leaning of the Asbury Park Press. They never post Pro 2A articles. What did she have to do to convince her editor to allow it? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 1, 2018 Excellent article - very fair and well written. @Katie Park - Well done. Excellent interviews and quotes from @gunforhire Anthony Colandro and @Smokin .50 Dave Rosenthal. One minor gaffe with the 90 days thing for handguns (should be 30) but otherwise concise. The handgun permits have a 90 day expiration, and you can only buy one every 30 days. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuckinNJ 81 Posted May 1, 2018 I don’t blame her for any gaffes. It’s obscenely complicated to be a gun owner here. Even those of us who’ve had guns in NJ for years are still unclear on some aspects. Kudos @Katie Park for your efforts to reach out to us and put out a fair piece of content. I doubt it’ll change anyone’s perspective, but it’s good to have out there. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted May 1, 2018 53 minutes ago, Krdshrk said: Excellent article - very fair and well written. @Katie Park - Well done. Excellent interviews and quotes from @gunforhire Anthony Colandro and @Smokin .50 Dave Rosenthal. One minor gaffe with the 90 days thing for handguns (should be 30) but otherwise concise. The handgun permits have a 90 day expiration, and you can only buy one every 30 days. Maybe she knows something we don't. Or can see the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said: Maybe she knows something we don't. Or can see the future. Put that tinfoil hat away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W2MC 1,699 Posted May 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said: I think this is about as fair and well-written an article as you'll get from a journalist... which, in some sense, is shocking to see in a NJ newspaper. I've never been very impressed with newspaper journalists. Every time I've dealt with them, they got something wrong/backwards/twisted...this article is about as good as it gets. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dajonga 396 Posted May 1, 2018 Nice job, Katie. The offer still stands if you want to do some shooting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted May 1, 2018 """""""" The chances of an ordinary civilian receiving a carry permit are slim. In 2017, 1,212 carry permits were granted to people in New Jersey, according to Guns to Carry, a website that collects information on each state’s gun laws. """""""""""""" is that accurate? i thought that was the total that existed, not the number issued in 2017? and while it's overall balanced....it does lean towards anti....even just the title. and this gem.....:::::::::: Critics of the Garden State’s firearm laws note that they would have an easier time buying guns in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Idaho, Montana or Wyoming — just a few of the many states that don’t require licensing, registration or permitting to own a gun. They have some of the highest firearms death rates in the nation. ::::::::::::::::::::::: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimB1 554 Posted May 1, 2018 I thought it was pretty good and she almost made a connection that I never see in any article, the AR-15 type rifle is the number 1 rifle format sold in the US. They always have to throw in that AR-15 style rifles were used in mass shootings. To me that's a lot like saying the F-150 is the number 1 selling pickup in the US and then the F-150 is the number one stolen pickup in the US. Well, duh. If there's more of one type of anything out in the world then any other, the chances are that item is going to see more usage both good and bad. It's like when they say "people that go to shoot at the range regularly are more likely to get injured at the range then someone who doesn't go to the range" again duh... -Jim 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucin 923 Posted May 2, 2018 I would like to read Ms. Parks article however because Gannet is a scum sucking organization I refuse to click a link to one of their so called news papers. If some one could do a cut and paste to a PM thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,157 Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, brucin said: I would like to read Ms. Parks article however because Gannet is a scum sucking organization I refuse to click a link to one of their so called news papers. If some one could do a cut and paste to a PM thanks. It's a very large article. I sent to you in 3 PM's - I don't think the video link got picked up, but you've got the article itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted May 2, 2018 And in case you haven't noticed, Ms Parks doesn't use the term assault rifle anywhere in the article. Not once. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mossburger 406 Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, brucin said: I would like to read Ms. Parks article however because Gannet is a scum sucking organization I refuse to click a link to one of their so called news papers. If some one could do a cut and paste to a PM thanks. If you want, you can go to archive.is and paste the link into there. Doing this let's you view a page, but deny the host their ad Revenue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted May 2, 2018 @Katie Park Great job on your article. Thanks for writing a factual article about firearms, and firearms owners. DT 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobA 1,235 Posted May 2, 2018 I feel it was one of the nicest most respectful articles about our hobby and our plight so far. Thank you Katie. We could all be Monday morning quarterbacks and add and edit all day. There's so many more struggles and pleasures that can always be touched on. But to expect a reporter or anyone to get the full sense of it all in such a short period of time is an unreasonable expectation. She did good with what she had. You can't expect someone to know what it's like to be homeless after sleeping one night outside. I for one am grateful for the job she did with the time and info she had. Perhaps next time, if there is a next time, it could be a multi-week series. Kind of a "day in the life" kind of thing. Maybe the reporter could go to different types of ranges or events such as clay shoots, shows. explaining how we transport and store, etc. At the same time profiling someone each week and detailing their plight to maintain safe and legal. But again, let me say I for one find the article totally unbiased and helpful for those who don't understand things in our "thing" to get just that much more light shined on their point of view. Once more I'd like to thank Katie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted May 2, 2018 Yes and no. I like the article, it is truthful and lacks opinion. But it also lacks some facts. In a few places she mentions how states with looser gun laws like PA have higher gun related deaths, but no where does she mention what the crime rate in these states are overall, and no where does she mention whether gun related death number in stricter states like NY and NJ are offset by higher death rates by other weapons such as knives, bats, axes, etc... And the suicide stats, how do suicides by gun compare sleeping pills, slit wrists, or dives off a building? If she uses death rate stats by guns then she should compare them to death rates by other means. I mean look at England, their gun related deaths rates are pretty low, but now look at their knife related death rates. You can't even buy a butter knife in England anymore without a psych evaluation! She did point out Delware has strict gun laws and their rate was as high as PA. She should have went back further with mass shootings and she would have seen in the 1990s the .30-30 lever action was the rifle of choice of mass shooters. Which proves it isn't the firearm, but the person. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted May 2, 2018 Why is it some NJ FFL's add laws and rules that don't exist. I am glad I read the article because now I will not waste my time ever going to Gun For Hire. My Driver's License does not match my FPID and nor does it need to by law. When we add non existent laws that further infringe on Second Amendment Rights we are only helping the other side Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobA 1,235 Posted May 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, capt14k said: Why is it some NJ FFL's add laws and rules that don't exist. I am glad I read the article because now I will not waste my time ever going to Gun For Hire. My Driver's License does not match my FPID and nor does it need to by law. When we add non existent laws that further infringe on Second Amendment Rights we are only helping the other side Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I'm not arguing whether it does or doesn't need to by any law. I've run into this even with F2F sales. It does, however, point out the wacky convoluted totally incomprehensible laws NJ has and how sometimes we're left twisting in the wind in terms of trying to understand and interpret them. Even times checking with LEOs and the Troopers we get sent in opposite directions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted May 2, 2018 I'm not arguing whether it does or doesn't need to by any law. I've run into this even with F2F sales. It does, however, point out the wacky convoluted totally incomprehensible laws NJ has and how sometimes we're left twisting in the wind in terms of trying to understand and interpret them. Even times checking with LEOs and the Troopers we get sent in opposite directions.I agree the laws should be void for vagueness. I think I have only purchased one firearm FTF in the last decade in NJ. It was from a forum member and he didn't have an issue with my license not matching. We don't even need to ask for a drivers license for FTF transactions. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence Dogood 468 Posted May 2, 2018 "The Rev. Robert Moore wants to know the answer to that question by way of studies and hard evidence. “There does need to be more studies done. What makes you safe in your home?” Moore, the executive director of Princeton-based Coalition for Peace Action, said. In addition to campaigns titled “Diplomacy, Not War” and “No Wars, No Warming,” the Coalition for Peace Action mounts a campaign called “Ceasefire NJ,” which pushes for more gun control. Moore noted that he does not oppose the Second Amendment, or the right to keep and bear arms, or people who shoot for recreation. But he is unnerved by the harrowing statistics on gun violence. He urges potential gun buyers to carefully consider their decision." He is a widely-known and consummate liar. Case in point: “I know about the NRA mantra — that ‘The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,’” Moore said. “That only works in Wild West fantasies, most of the time.” FALSE. Says who? The CDC, including the Kleck report. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence Dogood 468 Posted May 2, 2018 Also, every 'anti' statistic is cited for "gun deaths." That statistic includes events like suicides, accidental shootings, legitimate police killings of criminals and so on. Change the statistic to "gun homicides" and the state-by-state picture is very, very different. Look at the bottom 10. Where are CA and NJ? And how strict are the laws in Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Iowa and Minnesota? Not to mention that DC has among the strictest laws (thus Heller vs. DC) but the highest death rate: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted May 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said: "The Rev. Robert Moore wants to know the answer to that question by way of studies and hard evidence. “There does need to be more studies done. What makes you safe in your home?” Moore, the executive director of Princeton-based Coalition for Peace Action, said. In addition to campaigns titled “Diplomacy, Not War” and “No Wars, No Warming,” the Coalition for Peace Action mounts a campaign called “Ceasefire NJ,” which pushes for more gun control. Moore noted that he does not oppose the Second Amendment, or the right to keep and bear arms, or people who shoot for recreation. But he is unnerved by the harrowing statistics on gun violence. He urges potential gun buyers to carefully consider their decision." He is a widely-known and consummate liar. Case in point: “I know about the NRA mantra — that ‘The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,’” Moore said. “That only works in Wild West fantasies, most of the time.” FALSE. Says who? The CDC, including the Kleck report. You mean the average of 2.5 million defensive firearms instances annually? The one the cdc didn’t publish? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence Dogood 468 Posted May 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Zeke said: You mean the average of 2.5 million defensive firearms instances annually? The one the cdc didn’t publish? Yup, but it was published, just not widely disseminated - https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, capt14k said: I agree the laws should be void for vagueness. I think I have only purchased one firearm FTF in the last decade in NJ. It was from a forum member and he didn't have an issue with my license not matching. We don't even need to ask for a drivers license for FTF transactions. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk They met you FTF and still continued with the transaction??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites