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newjersey1

Need help finding a medical doctor that will sign off for gun permit.

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18 minutes ago, capt14k said:

 


What PD is this? Did you try getting sign off from hospital that originally signed off. However if you have the records there should be no issue.

Has Nappen returned your calls or email? I do not personally know anybody he has ever responded to except for Pantano, and that case came to a grinding halt.


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I'd rather not name and shame, but I'll give you a hint of 3 towns in the area, Saddle River, Upper Saddle River, Allendale. I also tried to get the original doctor who saw me at Bergen Regional to sign off but he didn't want to for some reason, apparently because this happened when I was a juvenile. He wouldn't even contact me back when I left a voice message for him when I first heard I was flagged, instead, he only called the police officer and explained that he couldn't help or disclose any kind of information.

I haven't talked to Nappen yet, however, he is aware of what's going as my forensic psychologist is good friends with him. I will be contacting him very shortly if I can't find a medical doctor to help me out.

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I'd rather not name and shame, but I'll give you a hint of 3 towns in the area, Saddle River, Upper Saddle River, Allendale. I also tried to get the original doctor who saw me at Bergen Regional to sign off but he didn't want to for some reason, apparently because this happened when I was a juvenile. He wouldn't even contact me back when I left a voice message for him when I first heard I was flagged, instead, he only called the police officer and explained that he couldn't help or disclose any kind of information.
I haven't talked to Nappen yet, however, he is aware of what's going as my forensic psychologist is good friends with him. I will be contacting him very shortly if I can't find a medical doctor to help me out.


Knowing someone who knows Nappen will probably help.


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17 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

This is just my humble opinion. Please don't do your laundry in public. 

I accept your opinion on the matter, I would have kept it more personal if there was an easier route to go down in my given situation, but there isn't. I came here to seek help from this community to see if anybody had recommendations of a medical doctor familiar with this type of situation I'm in that could help me. I feel it wasn't the wrong thing to do and come to these forums and let others know what's going on with my situation, I honestly have nowhere else to turn. Regardless, I have been given good advice/feedback from other members, and for the most part are on the same page as I am, and that's what counts.

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I accept your opinion on the matter, I would have kept it more personal if there was an easier route to go down in my given situation, but there isn't. I came here to seek help from this community to see if anybody had recommendations of a medical doctor familiar with this type of situation I'm in that could help me. I feel it wasn't the wrong thing to do and come to these forums and let others know what's going on with my situation, I honestly have nowhere else to turn. Regardless, I have been given good advice/feedback from other members, and for the most part are on the same page as I am, and that's what counts.
I see nothing wrong with you asking opinions. No one even knows who you are.

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2 hours ago, newjersey1 said:

I'd rather not name and shame, but I'll give you a hint of 3 towns in the area, Saddle River, Upper Saddle River, Allendale. I also tried to get the original doctor who saw me at Bergen Regional to sign off but he didn't want to for some reason, apparently because this happened when I was a juvenile. He wouldn't even contact me back when I left a voice message for him when I first heard I was flagged, instead, he only called the police officer and explained that he couldn't help or disclose any kind of information.

I haven't talked to Nappen yet, however, he is aware of what's going as my forensic psychologist is good friends with him. I will be contacting him very shortly if I can't find a medical doctor to help me out.

I see your in my neck of the woods. sorry for your troubles but just thought I'd mention another big 2A lawyer that's in our area, Ridgewood. Dan Schmutter. He and Nappen know each other well and he's very local which may help.

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1) Local PD's aren't directed by the NJSP.  The NJAG/NJSP provides guidance documents for all sorts of things that local PD's usually follow but NJSP did not tell your local PD to make you see a medical doctor.

2) You asked why the local PD would make you do this when you will eventually win if it goes to court.  They don't expect you to have the resources to fight this and even if you do, they don't really care if they loose.  There's no penalty for violating your rights.

3) You need a lawyer.  I recommend finding a lawyer that is connected to the political system within your town.  He will have a conversation with his buddy, the town solicitor, who will talk the the police chief and recommend that the PD stop bothering you.  That's how it's really done. 

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7 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

1) Local PD's aren't directed by the NJSP.  The NJAG/NJSP provides guidance documents for all sorts of things that local PD's usually follow but NJSP did not tell your local PD to make you see a medical doctor.

2) You asked why the local PD would make you do this when you will eventually win if it goes to court.  They don't expect you to have the resources to fight this and even if you do, they don't really care if they loose.  There's no penalty for violating your rights.

3) You need a lawyer.  I recommend finding a lawyer that is connected to the political system within your town.  He will have a conversation with his buddy, the town solicitor, who will talk the the police chief and recommend that the PD stop bothering you.  That's how it's really done. 

^^^^^  especially #3 - you will be amazed by the difference when the lawyer does the talking...

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Time to lawyer up and call the local cop shops bluff. I think what MGuy said above is true and when the chief realizes that a lawsuit will require a revelation of the NJSP medical directive that doesn't exist well......

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The NJSP says that if you answer yes to that question you have to supply a note from a MD or psychiatrist OR OTHER SATISFACTORY PROOF that you don't have that problem anymore.

 

The evaluation that was done on you is most certainly other satisfactory proof.   When a police officer has Dr. before his name or an MD. or a Ph.D after his name than I "might" accept his opinion on a mental or medical condition other than that his opinion on a medical condition  even the sniffles is worthless.

As others have said you will have to get an attorney to represent you at your appeal.        

 

 

 

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On 5/4/2018 at 3:27 PM, Zeke said:

Their is no such thing as pro gun dr farming here... sorry

Not true, my wife's OB/GYN was happy to write a note for our local PD.  One of her references had made mention of a medical condition and PD wanted a note from an MD.  Condition was completely unrelated to OB/GYN and poses absolutely no issue with firearm usage. She happenned to have her OB/GYN appt. that day.  He asked her if she she thought the condition posed any issue and if she was competent with the firearm, she said no issue and competent, and he wrote the note.  And the PD accepted it.

Don't think an OB/GYN could help the OP though ;-)

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WHY DOES THIS ISSUE KEEP COMING UP???  Why does anyone check yes in those boxes???  Why give references that would say you’re crazy???  Why? Why?  I’m beginning to think that checking those boxes and then running around to get things straight is a testament to the question in the first place. Is it just me?

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2 hours ago, leahcim said:

One of her references had made mention of a medical condition

im hoping you  b*tch slapped the stupid out of that reference, especially if the OB is right that the condition ist relevant

 

OP:

something for me isnt adding up here, but i think part of what isnt is your geographical region, based on your surrounding towns.

what you need to realize is that local PDs can and will bend you over for your rights when they can. I was refused a permit once, in Bogota, reason for refusal, desk officer goes "yea, the sitting cheif dosnt believe in signing those so ya best wait till the election" young dumb, should lawyer-ed up, wound up moving my apartment one town over, applied, and received albeit they didnt exactly make it easy, nor have any interest in . Fast forward a few years i moved again and my current town is great, i average 30 days on the nose. some have been a few days ahead, some a few behind, but all reasonable.

Having the issues as described should not impede you. I personally feel that something more is going on, and im looking at the town level for it. your only move is a lawyer at this point however, but i feel Nappen may be to high profile for what you need. (im sorry guys, hes still a lawyer, not a god among men, still have his card in my wallet at all times though)

it does definitely sound like you are getting the run around from all parties involved.

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Local PD will often call NJSP with questions, it happens all the time.  As others have mentioned, local PD is in complete control in this situation.  They could approve you but seem to want to make things difficult.  When things don't make sense it's usually a sign that someone is deliberately making it hard.  

You could try a call to the mayor and see how he/she feels, but that would be your final call before the lawyer route.

There is no downside to the local Chief in denying you.  He has his excuse - your mental health records.  Best case, you go away.  Worst case, you lawyer up and take it to court where he's overruled.  Either way, his life doesn't change.  He probably couldn't care less if the the judge grants you a P2P.  

And I don't believe for an instant the lawer's letter to the Chief will do a thing.  At that point it's up to the judge.

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I agree not a accepting the psychologist letter is bs.  The issue is physiological not medical.  It shouldn't be but it is.

The problem is finding a medical doctor to write the letter.  I don't think anyone on this forum if they were a doctor, that would write such a letter. If I were I'm the same situation I know I could get such a letter from my cardiologist or orthopedic surgeon.  I've been going to them for 12 and 43 years respectively.  

Point is, if you haven't had a long standing relationship with a doctor, they won't do it.

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WHY DOES THIS ISSUE KEEP COMING UP???  Why does anyone check yes in those boxes???  Why give references that would say you’re crazy???  Why? Why?  I’m beginning to think that checking those boxes and then running around to get things straight is a testament to the question in the first place. Is it just me?
No I often wonder the same myself. Especially the ones who checked yes due to marriage counseling

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Under N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3, New Jersey residents who apply for firearms permits are eligible to receive an FPIC unless they fail because of one of the statutory "disabilities" under N.J.S.A.2C:58-3(c). That section states that no handgun purchase permit or FPIC will be issued, in pertinent part:

(3) To any person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe for him to handle firearms, to any person who has ever been confined for a mental disorder, or to any alcoholic unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that he is no longer suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that would interfere [*9]  with or handicap him in the handling of firearms; to any person who knowingly falsifies any information on the application form for a handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card;

. . . .

(5) To any person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety or welfare;

I assume that the State Police is advising local police that one day in a mental institution in their minds is a "confinement" voluntary or not. There view is weak and may not be persuasive but that is why they want a medical doctor to sign off. Frankly, a judge may or may not accept the opinion of a clinical psychologist. If you can't find a medical doctor who is willing to evaluate you and sign off youj may have to prosecute your appeal with just a clinical psychologist and should call him as a live witness and not rely upon his report

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IIRC PA law is even worse. You are disqualified for life for being held for observation even if you were released with clean bill of health. Guys who legally owned firearms for 30 years were being arrested for unknowingly lying on 4473 the next time they went to purchase. There are a bunch a threads on PAFOA. Most of the guys were SOL. PA is far from a safe state for 2A Rights. Too many NJ Liberals moved there, especially the supposed Pro 2A liberals. What an oxymoron Pro 2A Liberal Democrat.

 

 

Edit Seems Joshua Prince a real active Pro 2A attorney won a decision in December that a PA 302 alone can't disqualify someone. Was decision appealed?

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, SuRrEaLNJ said:

im hoping you  b*tch slapped the stupid out of that reference, especially if the OB is right that the condition ist relevant

See, I did not have a problem with what the reference wrote.  My problem is with the way the reference questions are written, the reference was just trying to honestly answer the question.  It probably asked if the applicant had any medical conditions.

I've filled out those forms and I think they are ridiculous.

"What kind of person is the pplicant?" Human?

"Has the applicant ever been arrested?"  Well, how would I know that?  You are the police, you should know.

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12 hours ago, BobA said:

WHY DOES THIS ISSUE KEEP COMING UP???  Why does anyone check yes in those boxes???  Why give references that would say you’re crazy???  Why? Why?  I’m beginning to think that checking those boxes and then running around to get things straight is a testament to the question in the first place. Is it just me?

They do not have to say you're crazy.  A reference could, in response to the medical/disability question, say that you are allergic to poison ivy.  Probably the majority of NJ LPDs would want a doctor's note confirming that this "condition" would not make it unsafe for you to handle a firearm.

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1 hour ago, leahcim said:

A reference could, in response to the medical/disability question, say that you are allergic to poison ivy.

@Zeke I can't seem to find one of those hand on head thingies.  But if I could I would insert one here.  Do you have a spare?

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Okay, so that was far fetched, point is that even the most inocuous comment in that reference form will cause many if not most PDs to hold up your application.  So make sure your references understand this, and limit responses to one word.

As an experiment, next time I request a P2P, I'll ask my references to say "allergic to poison ivy."  If the PD requries a Dr.s note, I'll go to my wife's OB/GYN.;-)

 

:facepalm:

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1 minute ago, leahcim said:

Okay, so that was far fetched, point is that even the most inocuous comment in that refence form will cause many if not most PDs to hold up your application.  

As an experiment, next time I request a P2P, I'll ask my references to say "allergic to poison ivy"  If the PD requries a Dr.s note, I'll go to my wife's OB/GYN.;-)

I understand that, honest.  But my point is I really couldn't imagine offering a reference that would say anything less than the sun shines out of my whazoo.  Maybe different departments do it differently.  But at the barracks I need to use, I give them the references I want to use and I send the reference form to my two choices.  They then mail or fax the form back to the barracks directly.  I only use pro 2A references that can be depended on to be mature enough to realize what the question means.  I mean, would the people having these issues put references on their job resume that would say things like "he always comes in late" "he smells" "He can't do the job"?  I know that it is the job of the LEOs to jerk our chain and make it as hard as possible but when filling out these forms common sense needs to prevail.  When you're asked "do I look fat in this dress?" how do you answer?    

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I agree and that was my point too.  We all know this, but I sure did not think about it when my wife and I first applied for our FID cards.  And I am sure there are others, new to firearms in PRNJ, who would not even think about this.

When I was new to the NJ process I did not think about it.  And when our permita were held up because a reference said something that was completely harmless, I put the blame on the PD.  I thought they were joking, tried to reason with them.  They would not move forward without a doctor's note.  And they didn't really care what kind of doctor.  It was so ridiculous that I had to laugh.  But I would not have been laughing if we did not just happen to have an appointment with a doctor who was comletely willing to write the note.

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