shooter28 153 Posted May 11, 2018 So yesterday on my way to work, a state trooper pulled me over for failing to signal as I changed lanes. Headed south on the turnpike at 630 am, the road was pretty wide open. Trooper was going about 65 in the center lane, I was doing about 70 in the left. There was also a pickup truck 3 or so car lengths behind me. I passed the cop, and when I had about 4 car lengths on him, I did signal and move over. The truck decided to move over as well and merge right onto the cop forcing him to move over a lane. I thought for sure that truck is going to get pulled over. The lights go on but what do ya know, he flies up on my butt and pulls me over. He says I didnt signal. I know I did, I always do, especially when I am pulling over in front of a marked cop car. Heres the actual law I "broke" Quote 39:4-126. Failure to give proper signal, Signaling before starting, turning or stopping No person shall turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper position upon the roadway as required in section 39:4-123, or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway or otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway, or start or back a vehicle unless and until such movement can be made with safety. No person shall so turn any vehicle without giving an appropriate signal in the manner hereinafter provided in the event any other traffic may be affected by such movement. I feel like that last sentence makes or breaks the entire law open. I certainly didnt effect traffic by my move. There was barely anyone on the road. I didnt cut anyone off or force them to hit their brakes Anyone fight something like this in court? Ive never gone to court before so I dont know how it works here in NJ. If I ask for his dashcam video, any chance I get it or will there be nothing on the video since the "offense" happened before his lights went on? Can you fight tickets on your own in NJ or do you need a lawyer to actually get you the deal/ticket dropped? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted May 11, 2018 Probably a stupid question, are you sure your turn signals actually work? Any possibility the bulb is burned out, so it actually didn't signal, so he didn't see it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted May 11, 2018 Thats what I asked him when he first mentioned it but they work fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted May 11, 2018 You vs the trooper in court, good luck with that. Cheapest way out, if your driving record is clean, see the prosecutor before court and ask to plead guilty to unsafe operation of motor vehicle. NO points, no insurance surcharge, just $335 out of pocket and keep your record clean for next two years. NJ's greatest MV scam. Otherwise see what the points will cost you on insurance and lawyer's fees. Moral of the story, don't ride the left lane, and don't pass cops. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted May 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, T Bill said: Otherwise see what the points will cost you on insurance and lawyer's fees. I got a bogus speeding ticket few years ago. My insurance policy had a "the first one is free" rule. So the points didn't affect my policy and all I had to do is pay the fine to the town (bastards). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted May 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, T Bill said: You vs the trooper in court, good luck with that. Cheapest way out, if your driving record is clean, see the prosecutor before court and ask to plead guilty to unsafe operation of motor vehicle. NO points, no insurance surcharge, just $335 out of pocket and keep your record clean for next two years. NJ's greatest MV scam. Otherwise see what the points will cost you on insurance and lawyer's fees. Moral of the story, don't ride the left lane, and don't pass cops. Wasnt riding in the lane, just passing. But anyways, my record should be clean. I certainly havent gotten pulled over for anything in the past 5 years. Do I call the prosecutor ahead of time or do I have to rely on striking this deal up the day of court? I called my insurance company and they couldnt give me an idea of how much it would affect my premium so that route seems like a dead end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,554 Posted May 11, 2018 NOBODY IN OCEAN COUNTY USE'S THEIR TURN SIGINAL'S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted May 11, 2018 See him just before court begins, there will be a line, get there early. The best deals go early. You'll still have to stand before the judge, say I'm sorry yada, yada. Wait for the gavel and go pay the government extortion fee. Links are posted for reference only, not for anything else. The decision is yours. http://pufflaw.com/2018/04/17/new-jersey-turn-signal-law-n-j-s-a-394-126/ http://pufflaw.com/2016/12/30/nj-unsafe-driving-violation-n-j-s-394-97-2/ You stated you were doing 70 he was doing 65. Maybe this instead of a speeding ticket? But he decided you were getting cited long before you realized it. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted May 11, 2018 I would place an OPRA for the dash cam video. Im not sure what the Staties use, but they may or may not have been recording. If there was recording, then it will show you used it. If not, then you can go to court like Tbill suggested. If there is video that shows the blinker, they could drop the ticket without even going to court. What ever you do, make sure you follow the directions on the ticket to plead not guilty. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted May 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, T Bill said: You stated you were doing 70 he was doing 65. Maybe this instead of a speeding ticket? I was kinda thinking that too.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted May 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, T Bill said: You vs the trooper in court, good luck with that. Cheapest way out, if your driving record is clean, see the prosecutor before court and ask to plead guilty to unsafe operation of motor vehicle. NO points, no insurance surcharge, just $335 out of pocket and keep your record clean for next two years. NJ's greatest MV scam. Otherwise see what the points will cost you on insurance and lawyer's fees. Moral of the story, don't ride the left lane, and don't pass cops. Insurance companies are hip to the unsafe operation ticket and will penalize for it. And to the OP as far as failure to signal, I don't know if you did or didn't signal, but I am glad see cops still giving tickets for this. The new norm seems to be not to use your signal to change lanes anymore, and I for one would like to see a crackdown on this. Failure to maintain lane is also a huge problem nowadays. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted May 11, 2018 2 hours ago, JackDaWack said: I would place an OPRA for the dash cam video. Im not sure what the Staties use, but they may or may not have been recording. If there was recording, then it will show you used it. If not, then you can go to court like Tbill suggested. If there is video that shows the blinker, they could drop the ticket without even going to court. What ever you do, make sure you follow the directions on the ticket to plead not guilty. Thanks. I will look into this. 1 hour ago, diamondd817 said: Insurance companies are hip to the unsafe operation ticket and will penalize for it. And to the OP as far as failure to signal, I don't know if you did or didn't signal, but I am glad see cops still giving tickets for this. The new norm seems to be not to use your signal to change lanes anymore, and I for one would like to see a crackdown on this. Failure to maintain lane is also a huge problem nowadays. I am glad too. Traffic around here blows and people cruising in the left lane or not using their blinkers has caused a lot of problems. Its just frustrating when I get accused of it haha. Especially when a pickup truck literally drifted into the cop but nothing happens to him 2 hours ago, T Bill said: See him just before court begins, there will be a line, get there early. The best deals go early. You'll still have to stand before the judge, say I'm sorry yada, yada. Wait for the gavel and go pay the government extortion fee. Links are posted for reference only, not for anything else. The decision is yours. http://pufflaw.com/2018/04/17/new-jersey-turn-signal-law-n-j-s-a-394-126/ http://pufflaw.com/2016/12/30/nj-unsafe-driving-violation-n-j-s-394-97-2/ You stated you were doing 70 he was doing 65. Maybe this instead of a speeding ticket? But he decided you were getting cited long before you realized it. Awesome. Thanks for the info. If he wanted to pull me over for speeding 5 over, he should have. Either way its 2 points which kind sucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted May 11, 2018 3 hours ago, diamondd817 said: Insurance companies are hip to the unsafe operation ticket and will penalize for it. The whole point to this statute was they could not penalize you for it, The reason being the state would get the $200 surcharge and share it with the town, not the insurance company surcharge pool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted May 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, T Bill said: The whole point to this statute was they could not penalize you for it, The reason being the state would get the $200 surcharge and share it with the town, not the insurance company surcharge pool. Ask me how I know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted May 11, 2018 4 hours ago, shooter28 said: Thanks. I will look into this. I am glad too. Traffic around here blows and people cruising in the left lane or not using their blinkers has caused a lot of problems. Its just frustrating when I get accused of it haha. Especially when a pickup truck literally drifted into the cop but nothing happens to him Awesome. Thanks for the info. If he wanted to pull me over for speeding 5 over, he should have. Either way its 2 points which kind sucks. Here's the thing. If you make a deal, you have to go up and say that the officer had cause to pull you over. With speeding, the officer has to have a means of measuring it, and saying that that means is wrong may complicate the officer's life. With the signal, you have to give sufficient warning. You say you let it blink 4 times, he says he saw 3 and you didn't give the 200 foot margin or whatever is required, you plea and state he had cause, nothing gets complicated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted May 13, 2018 On 5/11/2018 at 0:20 PM, silverado427 said: NOBODY IN OCEAN COUNTY USE'S THEIR TURN SIGINAL'S. I’m guilty of this at times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted May 13, 2018 On 5/11/2018 at 4:34 PM, diamondd817 said: Ask me how I know. Who’s your ins co? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted May 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, bry@n said: Who’s your ins co? NJM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted November 28, 2018 On 5/11/2018 at 4:34 PM, diamondd817 said: Ask me how I know. Just got my insurance renewal and it loooks like they hit me with a surcharge as well-$450/ year. I had the ticket dropped to “unsafe operation,” 0 points, paid the extortion fee to the state and now on top, im paying a insurance surcharge. WTF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted November 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, shooter28 said: Just got my insurance renewal and it loooks like they hit me with a surcharge as well-$450/ year. I had the ticket dropped to “unsafe operation,” 0 points, paid the extortion fee to the state and now on top, im paying a insurance surcharge. WTF. Did you have previous "unsafe driving" violations? Was this an NJ surcharge? Get a copy of your driving abstract. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted November 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Maksim said: Did you have previous "unsafe driving" violations? Was this an NJ surcharge? Get a copy of your driving abstract. There was one from 7 years ago I think but other than that, it’s clean. Yes it was in NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, shooter28 said: There was one from 7 years ago I think but other than that, it’s clean. Yes it was in NJ. Humn, I believe with unsafe driving you are limited to two, after which there is a surcharge? Get copy of abstract and call insurance company to figure out why they jacked it up. Maybe just a mistake? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shooter28 153 Posted November 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, Maksim said: Humn, I believe with unsafe driving you are limited to two, after which there is a surcharge? Get copy of abstract and call insurance company to figure out why they jacked it up. Maybe just a mistake? 2 within 5 years, and only 3 total for your lifetime. I will give them a call tomorrow and see what they say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted November 28, 2018 6 hours ago, shooter28 said: 2 within 5 years, and only 3 total for your lifetime. I will give them a call tomorrow and see what they say. I told you guys that the insurance companies wised up to the unsafe operation fine. They charge you a surcharge on your first offense, as if it a points ticket. Better off taking the points fine now. No need to pay NJ anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,554 Posted November 28, 2018 No one in this state uses turn signals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted November 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, silverado427 said: No one in this state uses turn signals. That's because they don't want to give away their next move. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted November 28, 2018 2 hours ago, diamondd817 said: I told you guys that the insurance companies wised up to the unsafe operation fine. They charge you a surcharge on your first offense, as if it a points ticket. Better off taking the points fine now. No need to pay NJ anymore. Is that a recent thing? I've pleaded down to unsafe driving twice and have not gotten a surcharge from my insurance when I lived in NJ. Last time was about 3 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted November 28, 2018 On 5/11/2018 at 0:55 PM, diamondd817 said: Insurance companies are hip to the unsafe operation ticket and will penalize for it. He told you so. I can't wait to get my next bill. I rear-ended a lady and scuffed her bumper. I'm sure NJM will recoup whatever they paid out and then some from my increase over however many years I'll be penalized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 823 Posted November 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, fishnut said: Is that a recent thing? I've pleaded down to unsafe driving twice and have not gotten a surcharge from my insurance when I lived in NJ. Last time was about 3 years ago. Mine was in 2016. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,554 Posted November 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, diamondd817 said: That's because they don't want to give away their next move. Good answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites