Malice4you

Accurate short stock .22 rifle?

105 posts in this topic

TL;DR: Suggest a quality, accurate, short-stock, bolt action .22 that won't necessarily break the bank.

 

So, I recently had the pleasure of taking a fairly new (to rifles) shooter out to test some of my rimfires.  She did quite well with them, but they were a bit of a challenge for her due to a few factors.

She is about 10 inches shorter than I am, and this presented challenges with getting a proper, consistent cheek weld and proper sight picture through the scopes on most of my rifles.  All of these rifles have fixed wood stocks, and being 6'2", I have never been too concerned with the length.  Ex-girlfriends who were 5'6"/5'7" were able to use the rifles, but they may have been the lower limit to who can use a full length rifle stock comfortably.

 

Based on discussions with this shooter, I feel like what she is looking for is something:

-With an accurate heavy barrel - or at least heavier sporter barrel.  She seems interested in accuracy at 50-100 yards with a rimfire, most likely in .22LR.

-She seems to like a bolt action very much - the act of cycling the action and the actual solid feel of the action/bolt.

-She needs something that has a short/youth stock, something where replacement short stocks are available to fit, something which could be cut down to fit her better (without Bubba-ing it up), or something with a kind of adjustable stock where it allows for short length of pull.

-She mentioned her vision being a bit of an issue, so ability to mount a scope with plenty of eye relief and reasonable zoom is likely high on her list - I'm guessing something in a 3-9x40 or 4-12x40 range would serve her well, but that's a whole other discussion.

-She had mentioned weight as a small issue, however, I don't know that she will be shooting while standing or otherwise unsupported that often, and on a bench, a bipod or bags could support the rifle. I also don't expect the rifle to be carried in the field or really, for any long distances.

-Cost is always an issue for everyone, so she was questioning if it would be better to get a $200-500 rifle now, or if saving up for longer and getting something more expensive and better later on would be a better move.  There are plenty of used, quality rifles out there - but I'm not sure how many target/match grade rifles are youth models, or can be adapted to shorter LoP.  I also suspect a year or two of extra practice with a cheaper rifle before getting the better one would be better than not having anything.

-She doesn't want to spend boatloads of money on match ammo, but she won't be running terrible bulk ammo, either.  Her preferred ammo seemed to work quite well in my rifles, but rimfires are always ammo sensitive.

 

Her favorite rifle of the day was a Savage 93R17TR, a .17 HMR rifle wearing a Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40 scope and a bipod, stock Accutrigger set to the lowest setting it would go to.  She especially liked the extra recoil and noise of the rifle over .22s (especially subsonics), but the downside of increased ammo cost and lack of true target/match ammo was a factor.

Her second-favorite was a Savage Mark II BRJ .22 LR rifle wearing a SWFA 16x42 SS scope, bipod, DIP bottom metal, and Apachee trigger set to ~1-1.5lb pull.

Her third favorite was a Marlin XT-22 .22 LR wearing a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire 4-12x40 scope and bipod, in a Boyds SS Evolution stock, stock trigger set to the lowest setting it would go to.

 

So, after all that, any ideas what she should look at?  I was going to tell her to look at a Savage Mark II FV, and then find a youth stock or order a shorter Boyd's stock, but Boyd's only makes 1/2" shorter custom stocks, so she would need one further cut down if she went that route.  I know a lot of people like the CZ 455 as well, but I know little about it.  To be honest, a lot of even the cheap $200 rifles out there today are plenty accurate, and would likely serve her well for years to come.

I know there are a lot of used fairly inexpensive Remingtons out there; I dunno if modifying them would be a good idea, but 504T, 521T, 513T, 511-x, 541s, 540xr are all on a list I have of rifles I want to look into and I've seen some of those for under $500 used on gunbroker.  I believe the Marlin 2000L was a youth-oriented target rifle, but I couldn't find pricing on them when I looked a while back.  There are also old used Anschutz rifles I've seen in the $600-900 range which might work very well, other than the stock.  And then there are the very expensive models, where you're looking at $1k+ used/new, like a Rem 40x, Winchester 52 target, Kimber 82, most Anschutzs, where she might be able to find an aftermarket stock (so as not to destroy part of the investment, though this adds even more to the cost)

 

Thoughts?

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get a henry youth .22 lever action. :D

they also have a single shot bolt action for kids.

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/mini-bolt-youth/

eta: hell I might have to add one of those to my upcoming henry purchases.

eta2: if you and your friend are interested, I could bring my current collection of .22lr rifles (all are Henry's, shocking I know) and she could try them out.  Scope options are available for them.  The youth one I have has a custom cut stock to fit my son, but I have the original length stock as well.  I need an "excuse" to get out to EFGA anyways.

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LOL! I am pretty sure I'm the shooter in this thread! :p Forgive me, Malice, I was not quick enough on the draw... I was out today but planned to sit down this evening and write a proper "thank you" thread.... first.. thanking you - @Malice4you- for a wonderful day at the Clinton WMA rifle range! I played hooky from work for about 3.5 hours on Friday and it was well worth it. What a blast! (BTW, all... Malice, unlike his scary name, has a very calm, instructional demeanor - I think he should get an instructor's cert. Seriously! He was that good).

I also wanted to mention that in the last few weeks, I also enjoyed rifle loans from @BobAand his fiancée, Karen, @Scorpio64, @Zeke & @Mrs.Zeke, @High Exposure... (oops, does it limit the amount of names I can list?) because "Griz" and "RecessedFilter" should be in there too! I really wish some of the people that trash talk about "gun nuts" would meet some of the lovely, generous people that I have over the last couple of years! (And frankly, I've selfishly learned to accept people's generous offers to try firearms - selfishly, it's really saving me a bundle on rentals!)

And I'm really glad Malice wrote this up --- because that's a higher level of knowledge and detail than I could have come up with. He nailed all the issues. It's also funny because I was already online (gunsamerica, gunbroker, etc.) trying to get ideas... and I stumbled across that CZ 455 and was already wondering about it (it's a "switch-barrel" rifle that comes with a barrel in .22lr and another barrel in .17hmr). Who would have thunk it? Clever! There's also the Sako Quad (4 barrels and an easier switching mechanism, but def'ly out of my budget at 1000s). So, if anyone has a first-hand opinion of the CZ 455, I'd love to hear it. And yes, so far, in rifles I've tried semi-autos, lever action and bolt action... and I am DEFINITELY gravitating towards a bolt action rifle... (what was that sound?... I think it was some of my AR-15 friends stifling a sob... sorry, guys!) 

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well, since it's YOU... you know we can hit up SCFGPA one day.  Let me know if you can play hookie again for an hour or two during the week and we'll make it happen.

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Ruger 10/22 with a small scope.  My 10/22 is so darn light...  My Henry Lever Action is fun, but I have a hard time seeing the front sight too (My vision's worse than Mrs. Peel's), and it's HEAVY.

 

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34 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

LOL! I am pretty sure I'm the shooter in this thread! :p Forgive me, Malice, I was not quick enough on the draw... I was out today but planned to sit down this evening and write a proper "thank you" thread.... first.. thanking you - @Malice4you- for a wonderful day at the Clinton WMA rifle range! I played hooky from work for about 3.5 hours on Friday and it was well worth it. What a blast! (BTW, all... Malice, unlike his scary name, has a very calm, instructional demeanor - I think he should get an instructor's cert. Seriously! He was that good).

I also wanted to mention that in the last few weeks, I also enjoyed rifle loans from @BobAand his fiancée, Karen, @Scorpio64, @Zeke & @Mrs.Zeke, @High Exposure... (oops, does it limit the amount of names I can list?) because "Griz" and "RecessedFilter" should be in there too! I really wish some of the people that trash talk about "gun nuts" would meet some of the lovely, generous people that I have over the last couple of years! (And frankly, I've selfishly learned to accept people's generous offers to try firearms - selfishly, it's really saving me a bundle on rentals!)

And I'm really glad Malice wrote this up --- because that's a higher level of knowledge and detail than I could have come up with. He nailed all the issues. It's also funny because I was already online (gunsamerica, gunbroker, etc.) trying to get ideas... and I stumbled across that CZ 455 and was already wondering about it (it's a "switch-barrel" rifle that comes with a barrel in .22lr and another barrel in .17hmr). Who would have thunk it? Clever! There's also the Sako Quad (4 barrels and an easier switching mechanism, but def'ly out of my budget at 1000s). So, if anyone has a first-hand opinion of the CZ 455, I'd love to hear it. And yes, so far, in rifles I've tried semi-autos, lever action and bolt action... and I am DEFINITELY gravitating towards a bolt action rifle... (what was that sound?... I think it was some of my AR-15 friends stifling a sob... sorry, guys!) 

“You only need one rifle” said NO ONE EVER :good:

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Just now, T Bill said:

For a bolt without a break the bank price and adjustable stock and trigger, Ruger American Rimfire,

^^^ This

The RAR Rimfire is an excellent rifle and it will not break the bank.  It also comes in a reconfigurable stock to adjust length of pull to accommodate shooters of variable stature.  It even comes in a Talo Muddy Girl.

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That SAKO mentioned sounds very interesting.

Remington Model 34 is one of the most accurate rimfires for the price due to the lifter system. Get the NRA model with diopter sights. They can be found for under $400. My kids have no problem firing it. The younger one is still under 5'0.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Just now, TokenEntry said:

It has been recommended in previous threads for lever action replacement sights to go with skinner sights.

While I agree that Skinner peep sights are a big improvement, I'd like to add that lever actions are basically  minute of squirrel or minute of deer guns.   A lever gun is generally regarded as a working gun or hunting gun. 

Don't get me wrong, I love lever actions, I have a very nice Marlin 39D that I very much enjoy shooting with open sights.  In fact, it's the only gun with stock open sights that I can shoot half way decent with my less than 20-20 vision,  It's a great gun for plinking, but not exactly a precision instrument.

Since we are talking about rimfire rifles and carbines, I don't see Peel eating squirrel or possum, so maybe a bolt action is a better choice.  She seems very intent on hitting the x ring every time.  This is not to say that a lever 22lr is not capable of making ragged holes, I just happen to think that a bolt gun would be a better choice for a first 22 than anything else.  But that's just my opinion.

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There are a few more factors in deciding what type of action produces better accuracy.  While there is an argument that bolt actions are more accurate than semiautomatic it's really not by much.

There are other issues involving accuracy that haven't been discussed.  You have to maintain your cheek weld when operating the bolt.  Many people break their cheek weld operating the bolt.  You also have remove your strong hand from its position in relation to the stock and trigger.

A USMC sniper I know (been an instructor and multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan)  told me he'd prefer having a left handed bolt gun although he's right handed. His rationale is that way he wouldn't have to move his strong hand or break his cheek weld to operate the bolt.

All those issues go away using a semi auto.  Both your hands and your cheek stay in the same place while the gun rechambers another round.

My recommendation would be a 10/22 with a halfway decent scope.  All affordable in the budget stated.  I was shooting my 10/22 the other day and shot slightly sub 1" groups at 50 yards with cheap bulk 22 ammo.  CCI Mini Mags were better.  My 10/22 is stock and mounts a cheap 4 power scope.  It's older than a lot of the people on this forum and has maybe a bazillion rounds through it.  A better scope and ammo would no doubt cut my group size in half if I were interested in doing so.

If you start with a 10/22 there are loads of aftermarket parts that are easily installed which increase accuracy.  There are enough things, including after market receivers, out there where you can wind up scratch building a 10/22.

A 10/22 capable of sub MOA groups can be done for a reasonable price.

I see a 17 HMR as more of a specialist hunting round.  Decent 22lr is less than half the price of 17 HMR and even match ammo in 22 is a lot cheaper.

JMO

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You want a 10/22

I understand your flirtation with a bolt gun; but its mere infatuation.  I know...I started out a long time ago with a Remington bolt .22; she was tube-fed, and it was fun while it lasted.  But then...one day I saw her.  My first 10/22.  She was there; looking forlorn and un-loved on the close-out rack at the Berlin K-Mart, with a mere $99.95 pricetag.  Yeah; it was that long ago.  I can't say it was love at first sight - but I couldn't say no to her, either.  I took her home that day, and soon, out to the range; where it was just 'click-bang' -- 'click-bang' -- 'click-bang'....again and again, without hesitation or complaint.  Her trigger, while not 'match' quality, was extremely predictable, and exactly the same, round after round after round.  Her sights are a little small, as is most everything about her, but were almost dead-on that first day, and after an initial tweak, have remained un-touched since.  

Like I said; she is a bit small, but that has never been a problem, even for someone of my size (XXXL).  She isn't perfect; you have to get used to her idiosyncrasies, like how to manipulate her bolt-stop and magazine removal, and how to remove her $%^&#* bolt at cleaning-time.  It doesn't matter.  All this time, she has remained in her as-built configuration; never wanting or needing additional adornment.  

While she has faithfully been with me all these years; she's not the jealous type.  She understands there are other rifles..and is content to wait for me; knowing that I will return to her.  A few years ago, she was joined by a newer gal; a black-and-silver take-down model, and all I can say is 'wow'!  This one arrived in a fitted, accessorized case of black ballistic nylon.  She has been fantastic as well - a 'grab-n-go' range companion; with enough room in her case for everything needed at the range, including, on special days, her lil brother, the Ruger Mark III.  

Think about a 10/22 - particularly a take-down.  Your love for the 10/22 will grow deeper with each passing year and with every round sent downrange.

 

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10/22 is a great little rifle but bolt is more accurate and most Milsurps are bolt rifles. Buy a bolt first, then a 10/22. Hopefully you like the bolt rifle so much you then buy a Mauser, Enfield, or Finnish Mosin. Once you see and feel the history in your hand you're likely to think of plastic black rifles the way I do.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, sota said:

did you just assume your Mark III's gender? :D

I admit it......I peeked.

 

58 minutes ago, capt14k said:

10/22 is a great little rifle but bolt is more accurate and most Milsurps are bolt rifles. Buy a bolt first, then a 10/22. Hopefully you like the bolt rifle so much you then buy a Mauser, Enfield, or Finnish Mosin. Once you see and feel the history in your hand you're likely to think of plastic black rifles the way I do.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Had several Enfields; traded them away.

Shot a few Mausers...they're ok, but I

Love my Mosin!

 

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15 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

^^^ This

The RAR Rimfire is an excellent rifle and it will not break the bank.  It also comes in a reconfigurable stock to adjust length of pull to accommodate shooters of variable stature.  It even comes in a Talo Muddy Girl.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRimfire/overview.html

This was the first thing came to me when reading original post. Don't have personal experience but looks to fit the bill.

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