WP22 1,558 Posted May 17, 2018 56 minutes ago, TokenEntry said: Here is a video put out by sootch00 I came across today. Interesting Beretta rifle that is C&R eligible. It's a semi auto and bolt action in one package. A neat rifle to collect and use as a trainer, but it has quite a few cons that is talked about in the video. Video is 11:15 mins long. Regards, TokenEntry Now that's a cool little rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted May 17, 2018 @TokenEntry - Oh, what an interesting design! I love a "novel" type firearm. But as I already mentioned to Fred2... though I love the idea of a vintage gun, I will almost certainly NOT go vintage on a long gun. (I've been watching a lot of videos on "fitting" long guns and it's brought me a TON of clarity... even in terms of understanding some of the reasons why shotguns were so uncomfortable... I can see that any vintage long gun with a "normal-sized" adult stock would not fit me... and... I just couldn't bring myself to have a vintage item cut down. It just seems... wrong. Some might think that's silly... but it would bother me (and it probably would affect resale value too I would guess). I've been reading lots of great reviews of the CZs... thanks to those who chimed in here. I might try to find a local rental --- that will either keep it on the short list or eliminate it. Lots of great ideas! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted May 17, 2018 Here's the NRA's top 7 list of rifles for the shorties. They are not listed in any particular order. Browning X-Bolt Micro Composite: The only thing this Browning is short on is length of pull. ... Mossberg International SA-20/SA-28 Bantam: ... Savage 110 Lightweight Storm: ... Ruger Precision Rimfire: ... Franchi Affinity Catalyst 20 Gauge: ... Savage B Series Compact: ... Weatherby Mark V Camilla Subalpine: Here's an article by Chuck Hawks (one of my favorite sites for straight forward info on everything firearms related) https://www.chuckhawks.com/compact_rifles.htm 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 17, 2018 [mention=7378]TokenEntry[/mention] - Oh, what an interesting design! I love a "novel" type firearm. But as I already mentioned to Fred2... though I love the idea of a vintage gun, I will almost certainly NOT go vintage on a long gun. (I've been watching a lot of videos on "fitting" long guns and it's brought me a TON of clarity... even in terms of understanding some of the reasons why shotguns were so uncomfortable... I can see that any vintage long gun with a "normal-sized" adult stock would not fit me... and... I just couldn't bring myself to have a vintage item cut down. It just seems... wrong. Some might think that's silly... but it would bother me (and it probably would affect resale value too I would guess). I've been reading lots of great reviews of the CZs... thanks to those who chimed in here. I might try to find a local rental --- that will either keep it on the short list or eliminate it. Lots of great ideas! Whoever told you it was ok to cutdown a piece of history should be drawn and quartered. You made the right decision not to modify. Though that Beretta is cool. Maybe it will fit as is. Italians are on the small side.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 17, 2018 Here is a video put out by sootch00 I came across today. Interesting Beretta rifle that is C&R eligible. It's a semi auto and bolt action in one package. A neat rifle to collect and use as a trainer, but it has quite a few cons that is talked about in the video. Video is 11:15 mins long. Regards, TokenEntry There goes over $700. Thank you. Didn't know about that one, but now that I do I need to get one and the rear appeture sight to go with it, they run $250 + $420 Shipped for rifle + transfer fees and NICS. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted May 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, capt14k said: Whoever told you it was ok to cutdown a piece of history should be drawn and quartered. You made the right decision not to modify. Though that Beretta is cool. Maybe it will fit as is. Italians are on the small side. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk No need to draw and quarter anyone, LOL. It's just that as people have been suggesting vintage models, I've realized that older models were usually designed for men...and they're not adjustable like today's guns... so it is highly unlikely they have the right dimensions for me (particularly length of pull). Yeah, I suppose I could find a vintage "youth" model --- but I'm also getting the sense that some of those youth models were kind of cheaply made(?) which doesn't really appeal to me. So, chances are good I'll be getting a modern rifle. Perhaps I'll channel my vintage desires towards a little derringer at some point. I like those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, Mrs. Peel said: ). Yeah, I suppose I could find a vintage "youth" model --- Depending on what youth model, it may be a felony to own it if you don't have a youth hanging around. I don't recall all of the particulars but youth rifles are somehow allowed to have an OAL shorter than federal regs allow. The Cricket comes to mind as having been the catalyst for the discussion for which I have only a vague recollection. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Scorpio64 said: Depending on what youth model, it may be a felony to own it if you don't have a youth hanging around. I don't recall all of the particulars but youth rifles are somehow allowed to have an OAL shorter than federal regs allow. The Cricket comes to mind as having been the catalyst for the discussion for which I have only a vague recollection. OMG! Thank you. I'll research that! That would be one heck of an unpleasant surprise! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medved11 71 Posted May 17, 2018 [mention=7378]TokenEntry[/mention] - Oh, what an interesting design! I love a "novel" type firearm. But as I already mentioned to Fred2... though I love the idea of a vintage gun, I will almost certainly NOT go vintage on a long gun. (I've been watching a lot of videos on "fitting" long guns and it's brought me a TON of clarity... even in terms of understanding some of the reasons why shotguns were so uncomfortable... I can see that any vintage long gun with a "normal-sized" adult stock would not fit me... and... I just couldn't bring myself to have a vintage item cut down. It just seems... wrong. Some might think that's silly... but it would bother me (and it probably would affect resale value too I would guess). I've been reading lots of great reviews of the CZs... thanks to those who chimed in here. I might try to find a local rental --- that will either keep it on the short list or eliminate it. Lots of great ideas! I don’t think that you can go wrong with any of the CZ 455 models. What’s great about them is that, similar to the Ruger 10/22, there are a ton of aftermarket parts for them (barrels, trigger kits, stocks, etc.)I shot a bunch of .22LR bolt guns (Savage, CZ, Anschutz, and Ruger) before I decided on the 455. In the end, I narrowed my choices to either the Savage or CZ and went with the CZ. The RPR rimfire is another solid choice that will probably have a lot more aftermarket support down the road. My gripe with that gun is that I kind of feel that Ruger cut corners on the chassis design in order to keep the gun at a certain price point which I can’t fault them for. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichP 115 Posted May 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: Depending on what youth model, it may be a felony to own it if you don't have a youth hanging around. I don't recall all of the particulars but youth rifles are somehow allowed to have an OAL shorter than federal regs allow. The Cricket comes to mind as having been the catalyst for the discussion for which I have only a vague recollection. Huh? Can you cite some reference to this please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 17, 2018 Depending on what youth model, it may be a felony to own it if you don't have a youth hanging around. I don't recall all of the particulars but youth rifles are somehow allowed to have an OAL shorter than federal regs allow. The Cricket comes to mind as having been the catalyst for the discussion for which I have only a vague recollection.I’ve never seen that issue brought up. Crickett is 16 1/4” IIRC. The older lever actions are mostly exempt from SBR. Which are you referring to?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted May 17, 2018 Like I said, the issue came up in a conversation at an LGS about 7 years ago. Details are vague. There was a very tiny cricket single shot bolt rifle on a shelf that a customer was inquiring about. It was like, really tiny. The barrel was certainly shorter than 16 inches and it was bone stock. The LGS owner refused to sell him the rifle unless he produced an age appropriate tiny human that his wife birthed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted May 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, capt14k said: There goes $700. Thank you. Didn't know about that one, but now that I do I need to get one and the rear appeture sight to go with it, they run $250 + $420 Shipped for rifle + transfer fees and NICS. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Dude "olympia40" gets you 40.00 off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 17, 2018 Dude "olympia40" gets you 40.00 off. Thank you. I ordered one. There are 2 on gunbroker for over $600. Dans Ammo is out of them but with coupon code brings the price down to the less than Dans Ammo was. Though there you had a choice of barrel. Rarely do I buy taking a chance, but at $380 shipped I figured why not. Now to find an appeture. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 17, 2018 Like I said, the issue came up in a conversation at an LGS about 7 years ago. Details are vague. There was a very tiny cricket single shot bolt rifle on a shelf that a customer was inquiring about. It was like, really tiny. The barrel was certainly shorter than 16 inches and it was bone stock. The LGS owner refused to sell him the rifle unless he produced an age appropriate tiny human that his wife birthed.LGS was wrong. No such law.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WP22 1,558 Posted May 17, 2018 I'm just waiting on a local FFL to give me his info so I can get one too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, medved11 said: I've had the CZ 455 Precision Trainer for about 3 months now and put at least 500+ round through it. It's easily one of the most accurate .22LRs that I've owned. The only modification that I feel needs to be done at this point is to replace the trigger spring with a YoDave kit to lighten it up just a tiny bit (and find some lower rings to get the scope a little closer to the barrel). My only "complaint" would be the magazines which are a little expensive and feel kind of flimsy unlike some other .22LR mags that I've used. The same barreled action is available in the CZ Tacticool model, the only difference being that the stock is laminate wood instead of fiberglass. Edit: Added a picture of a 5 round group at 50 yards using Federal Target Ammo. I’ll blame myself for the flyer at the top right All that's nice but we're talking a on the street price of about $800 without glass. My 10/22 does almost that good at about a third of the price with a scope. One needs to ask oneself, how much accuracy do I want? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medved11 71 Posted May 17, 2018 All that's nice but we're talking a on the street price of about $800 without glass. My 10/22 does almost that good at about a third of the price with a scope. One needs to ask oneself, how much accuracy do I want?I can’t argue that a 10/22 is not as accurate (or maybe even more accurate) than a 455 in some cases. However, I went a different route because I wanted a bolt gun that closely mimics my .308 bolt gun and can be made as precise as possible without breaking the bank (and gives me a chance to challenge myself with wind calls at 100+ yards). I had the scope sitting in a drawer, so all I needed to get going was the scope rail which put me out another $50 before I could hit the range. To me, the street price of the 455 with the Manners stock was a lot more palatable than the $2k+ that I could have dropped on a Vudoo Gun Works .22LR that I could have built to match my .308 exactly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 17, 2018 I'm just waiting on a local FFL to give me his info so I can get one too. Just as I buy the Olympia a 1918/30 Beretta Semi Auto Carbine in 9mm Gilsenti pops up for sale. No magazine. I wonder how hard the magazines are to find. They made a NJ Legal 12 round mag. Edit: I found a diopter rear sight for the Olympia. $240 shipped from Italy. So with discount code and small negotiated savings on diopter I will be into it for $660 (including stupid NICS and Transfer). Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekend_junkie 129 Posted May 17, 2018 The CZ 455 is excellent but I’m no USMC Sharpshooter, so my Marlin XT-22 is more accurate than I am for less money. To further rock the boat, my Browning BL22 is a sweet handling level gun with a fairly compact stock and is wonderfully accurate without glass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted May 17, 2018 6 hours ago, medved11 said: I can’t argue that a 10/22 is not as accurate (or maybe even more accurate) than a 455 in some cases. However, I went a different route because I wanted a bolt gun that closely mimics my .308 bolt gun and can be made as precise as possible without breaking the bank (and gives me a chance to challenge myself with wind calls at 100+ yards). I had the scope sitting in a drawer, so all I needed to get going was the scope rail which put me out another $50 before I could hit the range. To me, the street price of the 455 with the Manners stock was a lot more palatable than the $2k+ that I could have dropped on a Vudoo Gun Works .22LR that I could have built to match my .308 exactly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk All of that is fine. If it's what you want and you can afford it go for it. That CZ goes for over $800 everywhere I've looked. Add halfway decent glass and you're talking $1000. That's twice as much as the stated budget. There are plenty of more affordable options out there. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted May 18, 2018 On 5/16/2018 at 10:05 PM, Scorpio64 said: Like I said, the issue came up in a conversation at an LGS about 7 years ago. Details are vague. There was a very tiny cricket single shot bolt rifle on a shelf that a customer was inquiring about. It was like, really tiny. The barrel was certainly shorter than 16 inches and it was bone stock. The LGS owner refused to sell him the rifle unless he produced an age appropriate tiny human that his wife birthed. Let us hope that LGS is either now more "educated" or out of business so they no longer spread such bovine feces around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, sota said: Let us hope that LGS is either now more "educated" or out of business so they no longer spread such bovine feces around. I'm sure there were some youth models that were under 26". He didn't say (nor did I) that ALL youth rifles were illegal for an adult to purchase for themselves, he just said THAT particular one, which was under 26" could only be purchased for a youth. Are there a million kiddie rifles like that in circulation, no. But they do exist. I saw the rifle with my own eyes, it was so small it looked like a toy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted May 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: I'm sure there were some youth models that were under 26". He didn't say (nor did I) that ALL youth rifles were illegal for an adult to purchase for themselves, he just said THAT particular one, which was under 26" could only be purchased for a youth. Are there a million kiddie rifles like that in circulation, no. But they do exist. I saw the rifle with my own eyes, it was so small it looked like a toy. Thank you for coming back to clarify! Thankfully, I'm not so short that I'd be buying something like that one you saw ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 18, 2018 I'm sure there were some youth models that were under 26". He didn't say (nor did I) that ALL youth rifles were illegal for an adult to purchase for themselves, he just said THAT particular one, which was under 26" could only be purchased for a youth. Are there a million kiddie rifles like that in circulation, no. But they do exist. I saw the rifle with my own eyes, it was so small it looked like a toy.Yes but there is no such law that it can only be used by youths. They are exempted based on model not user age.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted May 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: I'm sure there were some youth models that were under 26". He didn't say (nor did I) that ALL youth rifles were illegal for an adult to purchase for themselves, he just said THAT particular one, which was under 26" could only be purchased for a youth. So he was arguing that the only legal way to buy it was as a straw man purchase for a prohibited person? Gawd, some of the gun shop logic I've heard really gives me a headache. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 18, 2018 So he was arguing that the only legal way to buy it was as a straw man purchase for a prohibited person? Gawd, some of the gun shop logic I've heard really gives me a headache. Well you are allowed to buy a rifle for your child, but still the must have kid present to buy youth rifle or only kid can have youth rifle is ridiculous. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,120 Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, 10X said: So he was arguing that the only legal way to buy it was as a straw man purchase for a prohibited person? I don't think that a parent buying a rifle for their child is a straw man purchase. Obviously we have all experts here. Let's just drop this. I'll conceded that you all are many many more times brilliant than I, and leave it at that. I'm wrong, you are right, pat yourself on the back and revel in your awesomeness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted May 18, 2018 I don't think that a parent buying a rifle for their child is a straw man purchase. Obviously we have all experts here. Let's just drop this. I'll conceded that you all are many many more times brilliant than I, and leave it at that. I'm wrong, you are right, pat yourself on the back and revel in your awesomeness.It wasn't an attack on you but on the dealer spreading the misinformation. You should be able to trust what a licensed dealer says, but I have found most know very little and makeup a lot. I had more than a few dealers at Oaks insist as a NJ resident I couldn't buy a Hungarian M44 Mosin because of the bayonet.Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TokenEntry 293 Posted May 18, 2018 I'm pretty sure everyone here has at least one bullshit story was told to them by a fudd salesman at their LGS at some point. I believe there was a thread about this topic I read awhile back on the forum. New gun owners now should be more aware of pricing and gun laws with the internet and social media available to them today than in days past. Regards, TokenEntry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites